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Detling

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I have seen this on another place and feel it ought to have wider coverage.

 

I do believe the CRT need to do more. I actually didn't know about this London Boaters website before starting life on the canal for all those who believe this site is the be all and end all place for boat knowledge!

My first step was boat sitting fo
r a friend for 2 weeks and chatting to real actual people on the canal in which I met 3 x people renting different boats in my first week. One of which told me about his landlord which had a good reputation and a great website. I made friends with him and he convinced me to rent first before buying in case I didn't like life on the water, as I wanted to buy straight away. I had zero clue there was anything underhand going on!

I signed a contract just like any other tenant, except that this one you had to become a part owner as I was told it was a boat. I paid a deposit and paid a large amount of rent per month - in my mind I thought it's ok as I was going to buy in a few months so it's a temporary stint to learn more about boats and see if I could get through canal life in the winter. I also thought by paying more I would be getting a good quality boat and excellent service. I took my RYA course and spoke to lots of other boaters, I asked my landlord lots of questions about the boat but I was broken down most of the time. This meant I had minimal water and a full toilet for the first 6 weeks. I also had a carbon monoxide issue along with my landlord completing electrical rewiring which left me with with an overheated water pump which could have set fire, no electrics and a short circuit which flattened my batteries for a while. My toilet overflowed and flooded the bathroom to. I just chalked it up to experience and 'good learning'.

On my first week on board my rented boat I met another 3 x renters in the boats next to me. In my experience it appears there are a large majority of people on London canals who are living in rented boats. Yes boatloads and renters alike are all over the place - even on London boaters!

There are websites online that seem very legitimate. People on the canal are recommending renting. It's only when something goes wrong you realise you have no rights to be re-housed as the boatlord is not really a landlord so tenants rights don't apply and renting is not technically allowed.

It's absolutely awful. You have less rights and more danger (eg: carbon monoxide, poor repair work, flooding, fire, sinking) than living in a rented flat. I don't want the CRT to turn a blind eye anymore , there needs to be something done. The fact someone commented above that they want more information on a 'part ownership' scheme and boat rental scheme on a post regarding how I have been made homeless, lost everything and could have died when the boat sank is alarming and shows there is still an interest. The problem will NOT go away. Call us ignorant, stupid, say we should be shunned from the community for renting. My main concern was learning as much as possible about canal boats not studying CRT rental law! I trusted the boat owners website, I trusted other boaters I spoke to.

I'm hoping my honesty and throwing myself into the lions den on here will help get the word out and the CRT will do something now to stop lives being at risk.

 

The boat sank but fortunately no one was hurt.

I hope that the ostrich now lifts it's head and looks at the problem.

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On the basis of what you say I wonder if you were advised to HIRE rather than to rent. If someone has never tried living on a boat before I think most on here, and most other real boaters, would advise that they try it by hiring in the winter. Hire boats from reputable companies comply with much stricter safety inspections, construction details and will have the proper insurance.

As you have found unofficial renting is rife around London and I expect other large cities with housing problems and it seems even by appearances reputable companies like Airbnb give little or no thought to the legality of what they "offer" and for the safety of their customers. In fact CaRT had a warning about this sort of thing on their website.

I am also tempted to comment that I doubt you will find many genuine boaters in London nowadays.

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If they can prove the boats in question are being rented out (bit of a big if) without the requisite business license, hire boat BSS, insurance and operating base then the action would be to revoke the present leisure license (if the boats have one) and start section 8 procedures or whatever to kick them off CaRT waters.

Actually I think the local authority are far more to blame for their lack of enforcement of regulations in respect of living accommodation.

I doubt anyone is willing to try to get a legal precedent to the effect that these "buy a share" rental schemes are actually a rental device so further action is easier.

 

Just noticed Detling reposted the original. I thought we had warned enough on here about these schemes.

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CRT are a charity responsible for most of the navigable inland waterways on the UK mainland. They are responsible for managing the resource so the general public may enjoy it, some pay to do so, others don't.

They are not a housing regulator nor are they responsible as landlords.

The Internet is full of pages and pages of what's legal and what isn't. 

The hiring out of boats is clearly detailed and lists all that is involved, the restrictions, the increased responsibilities to the owner and the more stringent tests and licenses etc. all there for everyone to read.

It's never occurred to me to pitch a tent on a road island nor above the high tide mark at Brighton before enquiring what my new post code would be?

Should I ever want to live that way then without doubt I would first look on the web, before even considering if my lifestyle choice was a goer.

Often asking the authorities something results in a negative response.  It's simple to find someone who will tell you it's ok to do something, especially if there's money in it for them.  However why on earth would you trust their authority when they clearly have a vested interest.

In life a pretty good set of rules is ......

Don't go into a particular brand of car showroom and ask if their vehicles are safe.

Don't advise your children to query from someone trying to sell them tablets if they're good to take.

If your new found friend propping up the bar asks if you'll lend them money, it's pointless to ask when they'll pay you back.

Should the Sun implode, go Nova, turn into a White Dwarf and fry us all, don't suggest the Green Party should have done more about it.

 

:unsure:

 

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Huge demand for somewhere to live, lots of money to be made, an endless supply of scrupulous people, CRT are never going to push that tide back, there are people living in sheds and garages made into makeshift homes and local authorities can't control that and they are much better equipped and have much more law on their side. I suppose if a boat has some sort of licence and is not blatently breaking rules there is not a lot CRT can do.

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I  am not proposing this or affected by this action, but I am now concerned that no one is doing anything about this. If as I believe, it it not Cart's Responsibility to prosecute then they should be chasing those whose responsibility it is, in order to contain this activity before people die. They can pass on boat information and owner information to the local authority if required.

 

Yes people should look before they jump, but maybe Cart could do more to highlight that illegal/underground boat renting gives you precisely zero protection, and seemingly no safety. This needs more publicity in the hope that it will become socially unacceptable to operate this way.

 

We as boaters know, this but how does Joe public find out, there are no posters or leaflets, there is no TV program, so the only info people get is from their prospective landlord who assures them it is OK.

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As Detling says, CRT could do more, or at least something. It doesn't cost much to photocopy a few leaflets and distribute them, put a few on notice boards etc. Not sure if much can stop the situation but if people are aware then that might help avoid a bad situation. Forewarned is forearmed etc. Prosecution is going to be expensive and I doubt if it will frighten many people. Anyway somewhere to live in London,  no, or very few questions asked is always going to find an applicant or 10.

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Though i would be happy to see CRT informing prospective tenants that such rentals are full of pitfalls - expensive & potentially dangerous pitfalls i d be a shade pissed off they started throwing money at any sort of prosecution :

a) because i don t really see how they d achieve it &

b ) it is unlikely to be cheap

Though i may well open myself up to criticism i cannot help but think that the tenants in such situations are whinging - because things didn t go all there own way . Surely for heavens sake before committing ones hard earnt to such a rental agreement you would do extensive research and by doing so realise that your on a hiding to nothing . Asking other boaters is all well and good but wouldn t you do more ? I just cannot believe that there are such gullible people about . Renting a boat is likely to be 25 - 50 % ( & anywhere in between ) less than a flat . An old saying ... if you think its good to be true then it probably is . I dont lay any blame or responsability at CRTs door at all . Its for individuals to do thier homework , enquire about t &cs , 

I dont wish to sound harsh & overly critical but folk need to take more responsiblity themselves - this is another example of Britains current "' its someone elses fault  . Someone else needs to fix it " 

No its not . Its more like .. You ve been a fool  . Wake up . Learn from it ... quickly ...& move on with your life as best as possible .Ultimately you are yourself to blame .

Some will say its the shark boatlords etc . They are partially correct of course  . They manage to run thier business successfully entirely because prospective tenants have failed to do thier homework . They rely on it & umfortunately there seems to be an almost endless stream of gullible " wanabees " waiting . 

My hunch is that there are two reasons for these levels of gullibilty . 

1) Need . britains housing system is a disgrace . A citizens most basic need is shelter . 21st Britain cannot house its citizens in a fair way . What a dreadful indictment on a so called civilised nation . It is a shameful combination of private entreprenurial greed & political incompetence & indifference of the highest order . 

Consequently folk will look for any solution including as mentioned above " beds in sheds " etc and of course boats . Despite this i would still hold those tenants to be to blame - they willingly put thier name on the dotted line commiting large sums of money without sufficient research . Ultimately we are responsible for ourselves .

2) I do get the impression - its only that though that in London its become a bit of a " scene " . 

" oh how cool - you live on a boat . Youre such an individual " . Consequently folk who dont know which end of a screwdriver to hold get a boat . All is well , all is lovely - until tje breakdowns occur and theyre screwed . No doubt some will come into boating under such circumastances and get hooked on it . Brilliant - they learn to love it , the boat , the canals , & everything else . In fact i bet its quite commonplace , but many will get involved and hate it because its failed to fulfil thier perceptions of how life onboard would be .

I know i sound harsh - but its not intentional. It must be desperately difficult to get a foot up in London , to make ones way in a competetive city ( i live here by the way ) , to make ends meet beyond just the essentials and create a quality of life and so boats that cost less than flats will always have an appeal . But its the individuals responsiblity to check all is order before commiting to such rentals and that homework , if done properly , will highlight that renting a boat is fraught with problems . 

It saddens me that folk get caught out but people need to wake up , do the homework - & walk away 

cheers

Edited by chubby
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Caveat emptor seems to be the order of the day here. But having a bad experience and warning others helps get the message across.

But where does one post post a warning - or from the other end - where does one look for warnings in the first place.

Re DetlIng - the homework seems to have been done - but to no avail.

I don't see what CRT can do about it, other than to react to an incident after the event, by which time it is too late to prevent.

 

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20 minutes ago, chubby said:

Though i would be happy to see CRT informing prospective tenants that such rentals are full of pitfalls - expensive & potentially dangerous pitfalls i d be a shade pissed off they started throwing money at any sort of prosecution :

a) because i don t really see how they d achieve it &

b ) it is unlikely to be cheap

Though i may well open myself up to criticism i cannot help but think that the tenants in such situations are whinging - because things didn t go all there own way . Surely for heavens sake before committing ones hard earnt to such a rental agreement you would do extensive research and by doing so realise that your on a hiding to nothing . Asking other boaters is all well and good but wouldn t you do more ? I just cannot believe that there are such gullible people about . Renting a boat is likely to be 25 - 50 % ( & anywhere in between ) less than a flat . An old saying ... if you think its good to be true then it probably is . I dont lay any blame or responsability at CRTs door at all . Its for individuals to do thier homework , enquire about t &cs , 

I dont wish to sound harsh & overly critical but folk need to take more responsiblity themselves - this is another example of Britains current "' its someone elses fault  . Someone else needs to fix it " 

No its not . Its more like .. Youre a fool  . Wake up . Learn from it ... quickly ...& move on with your life as best as possible .Ultimately you are yourself to blame .

Some will say its the shark boatlords etc . They are partially correct of course  . They manage to run thier business successfully entirely because prospective tenants have failed to do thier homework . They rely on it & umfortunately there seems to be an almost endless stream of gullible " wanabees " waiting . 

My hunch is that there are two reasons for these levels of gullibilty . 

1) Need . britains housing system is a disgrace . A citizens most basic need is shelter . 21st Britain cannot house its citizens in a fair way . What a dreadful indictment on a so called civilised nation . It is a shameful combination of private entreprenurial greed & political incompetence & indifference of the highest order . 

Consequently folk will look for any solution including as mentioned above " beds in sheds " etc and of course boats . Despite this i would still hold those tenants to be to blame - they willingly put thier name on the dotted line commiting large sums of money without sufficient research . Ultimately we are responsible for ourselves .

2) I do get the impression - its only that though that in London its become a bit of a " scene " . 

" oh how cool - you live on a boat . Youre such an individual " . 

I know i sound harsh - but its not intentional. It must be desperately difficult to get a foot up in London , to make ones way in a competetive city ( i live here by the way ) , to make ends meet beyond just the essentials and create a quality of life and so boats that cost less than flats will always have an appeal . But its the individuals responsiblity to check all is order before commiting to such rentals and that homework , if done properly , will highlight that renting a boat is fraught with problems . 

It saddens me that folk get caught out but people need to wake up , do the homework - & walk away 

cheers

I'm an ex member of the WRP but to be honest I agree with a lot of that.  

It's a classic case of getting to the root of the problem rather than tackling the symptoms.  

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One thing CRT could do & it would involve something they really really love . Make some signs !! They love a sign CRT . Although mostly they like to make pointless signs so to put up signs that were worthwhile would go against the grain a bit .

Sarcasm aside - information signs highlighting the dangers   & risks could be put up at London waterpoints and elsans . It could go into the boaters handbook - if they still print that ? At some locks maybe ? Leaflet drop - they could use those CRT envelopes i see all the time . The data collectors could do this maybe ? 

Ive no prob with CRT helping to highlight an issue on thier patch but they cant be expected to "police "'this rental market . 

Edited by chubby
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12 hours ago, chubby said:

Ive no prob with CRT helping to highlight an issue on thier patch but they cant be expected to "police "'this rental market . 

But maybe they should be policing commercial operators who are flouting the license terms and conditions.

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On 09/04/2017 at 19:34, chubby said:

One thing CRT could do & it would involve something they really really love . Make some signs !!

I seriously doubt signs would do much good.  Firstly I don't see any evidence of people paying any attention to the notices in modern life.  Secondly with the lowlife boatlords having an incentive to remove the signs how long would they last?

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