New Format

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, DHutch said:

That said; the software allows us to create the 'View New Content' stream, which in retrospect we should have role out at the same time, and you do have to keep the visual appearance of a site moving to keep it from looking out of date. That is just a factor of life.

 

Nope sorry, 100% disagree. when something works well, it should be left alone.

I think the whole thing is a monumental cock-up by Invision. CWF is just so clunky, awkward and slow-to-load now compared to the ultra-slick interfaces on other forums I visit.

Presumably other Invision sites are moaning about it too?

[RichM]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Nope sorry, 100% disagree. when something works well, it should be left alone.

I think the whole thing is a monumental cock-up by Invision. CWF is just so clunky, awkward and slow-to-load now compared to the ultra-slick interfaces on other forums I visit.

Presumably other Invision sites are moaning about it too?

But it wouldn't have worked well for the foreseeable, or rather after April 2017 when Invision cease security updates for it. 

To put it into context; Had we decided to stick with the old version for the foreseeable, it would be a bit like leaving your Narrowboat on a dodgy stretch of canal with your doors unlocked/wide open when you're away. No doubt some people do that, but I'm not prepared to take any security risks when we're talking about thousands of member registrations in the database. 

As for your other point - well that's a matter of opinion and I appreciate everyone has different views. My recommendation would be to spend a little time familiarsing yourself with it. 

RichM

[Keeping Up]

Well said RichM - if the software would let me I'd award a Greenie

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

Well said RichM - if the software would let me I'd award a Greenie

I would agree with the above and add I (not particularly techie minded) find the forum certainly no worse and in some ways better.  Equally I don't find it slow and clunky.  However I don't use mobile devices which may make a difference.

[MtB]

On 14/03/2017 at 20:42, RichM said:

But it wouldn't have worked well for the foreseeable, or rather after April 2017 when Invision cease security updates for it. 

 

I still don't understand how making us learn all about fekkin "activity streams" and all the other new claptrap improves security. I hold that security could have been improved by Invision perfectly well whilst keeping the previous slick user interface, but I'm not a programmer and you presumably are. I'd be obliged if you could explain please. Thank you.

 

 

On 14/03/2017 at 20:42, RichM said:

To put it into context; Had we decided to stick with the old version for the foreseeable, it would be a bit like leaving your Narrowboat on a dodgy stretch of canal with your doors unlocked/wide open when you're away. No doubt some people do that, but I'm not prepared to take any security risks when we're talking about thousands of member registrations in the database. 

 

Nope, I'm still not getting it. Why could Invision not have fitted better locks to the existing slick user interface? Why did they need to change the user interface?

 

On 14/03/2017 at 20:42, RichM said:

As for your other point - well that's a matter of opinion and I appreciate everyone has different views. My recommendation would be to spend a little time familiarsing yourself with it. 

 

Why should I need to spend ANY time familiarising myself with it? The other forums I use have software is quick and intuitive to understand in an instant.

[MtB]

I keep asking how the visitor and posting stats compare now with before the upgrade. I notice you never answer. I guess that is because they tell a sorry story.

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I keep asking how the visitor and posting stats compare now with before the upgrade. I notice you never answer. I guess that is because they tell a sorry story.

The number of posts I see seems to be holding up well.  Admittedly I don't have numbers but I am find as much if not more to read.  So if numbers have fallen off those left are IMO posting lots of interesting stuff.

[Ange]

Well I like the new format and would like to thank Rich for the amount of time he's put in, over and above his full time job, addressing members' issues with the essential upgrade.  I use it on tablet and mobile and, once I'd put in a little effort, have found it perfectly usable and better in some respects.

We are but a small drop in the ocean that Invision look after - we're hardly going to persuade them to change.

 

 

[DHutch]

20 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Nope sorry, 100% disagree. when something works well, it should be left alone.

The thing is Mike at the end of the day, while I understand change takes time, you wouldnt want go back to command driven interface or a horse and carriage for daily use!

• We could not continue using the old version forever, it has come to the end of its life and was becoming unsupported, which is not a viable option as has been highlighted. As we use a propitiatory software solution, and to and extend what changes with a major revision is out of our control. We take it, or leave it and us another propitiatory system.
• Technology and the way its used changes, you cannot pretend it doesn't. The new software gives a more uniform appearance across devises, and removed the need to use a 'desktop' skin on a smart phone in order to access functionality such as uploading image, reporting a post, or accessing the moderator tools. In addition what looks modern and up to date does change, and tweaks to the visual appearance are needed.
• You do not have to use custom steams if you do not want, the 'unread content' stream was not the same as the 'new content' stream but for most users returns a similar function. We have now improved from this and made 'new content' the default option for users not wishing to create a custom stream.

Daniel

[DHutch]

11 hours ago, Ange said:

Well I like the new format and would like to thank Rich for the amount of time he's put in, over and above his full time job, addressing members' issues with the essential upgrade.  I use it on tablet and mobile and, once I'd put in a little effort, have found it perfectly usable and better in some respects.

13 hours ago, Jerra said:

The number of posts I see seems to be holding up well.  Admittedly I don't have numbers but I am find as much if not more to read.  So if numbers have fallen off those left are IMO posting lots of interesting stuff.

Thank you for the feedback. I don't like the term 'silent majority' as such, but expect there are a large number of other members who share the same views. 

We have been looking at the stats, and while there was a small dip in the rate of posting while people got used to the changes, figures are now well within normal seasonal fluctuation. 

 

Daniel

[Ally]

Nipped back onto the forum after a longish break, specifically to find a member. I'm sure it's obvious but I can't see ho we to do that now. I can search their name of course, but that doesn't take me to an option to view their profile etc. I suppose had I stuck with the new site I'd know by now, but I didn't and don't!  Someone asked earlier in this thread, but I can't see a reply to the question then, so please, how do I find a member now?  

[mross]

Ally, click on the magnifying glass - top-right then member search.  When you find the right member, click on their picture.  On a phone it's similar.

[Ally]

Thanks! Sorted now, cheers

[MtB]

I've just tried to find the profile of a member too (member "Daslandia"), and like Ally, I can't do it.

Unlike Ally, every search I try returns 0 results. Has he been booted off? This seems unlikely!

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I've just tried to find the profile of a member too (member "Daslandia"), and like Ally, I can't do it.

Unlike Ally, every search I try returns 0 results. Has he been booted off? This seems unlikely!

Dal

[MtB]

Excellent, thanks! 

I was misspelling it...

[Sea Dog]

On 2017-3-14 at 23:35, Mike the Boilerman said:

I still don't understand how making us learn all about fekkin "activity streams"...... 

Why should I need to spend ANY time familiarising myself with it? The other forums I use have software is quick and intuitive to understand in an instant.

Whilst I'm grateful for the efforts of Rich M, I have to say Mike's views have much more traction with me than any I've read from those who champion the current interface. That's not to say I disbelieve those who might have the hang of it, or don't have sympathy with those who defend the site management - this is not a pop at anyone.

I have taken the time to learn a little about activity streams and I've set one up so I can see unread topics rather than trawl through every postnin every thread. This is rather a pain to select by repeating a click sequence each and every time though and it also results in me never seeing a thread again unless someone posts something new in it. This thread was just such an example!  I'm sure I could be working it better but, as Mike says, I don't have any such issues on any other forum I have used or visited even briefly. Here, however, every visit starts with.. 

Sorry, there is a problem

Page Not Found.

Error code: 2S106/1

 

[RichM]

17 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Whilst I'm grateful for the efforts of Rich M, I have to say Mike's views have much more traction with me than any I've read from those who champion the current interface. That's not to say I disbelieve those who might have the hang of it, or don't have sympathy with those who defend the site management - this is not a pop at anyone.

I have taken the time to learn a little about activity streams and I've set one up so I can see unread topics rather than trawl through every postnin every thread. This is rather a pain to select by repeating a click sequence each and every time though and it also results in me never seeing a thread again unless someone posts something new in it. This thread was just such an example!  I'm sure I could be working it better but, as Mike says, I don't have any such issues on any other forum I have used or visited even briefly. Here, however, every visit starts with.. 

Sorry, there is a problem

Page Not Found.

Error code: 2S106/1

 

You probably have your stream set to "Content I haven't read."

As for that error, I've not seen that myself and don't recall seeing anyone else mention this. How do you get to Canal World? Maybe you're using an old bookmark? Please clarify.

Also, what powers these other forums you speak of? Sure, we could technically migrate to something which in my opinion is far superior (vBulletin) but just looking at it right now, I can already see a whole bunch of things which people would no doubt complain about if we were to migrate to it...

[DHutch]

I agree the error you are seeing is almost certainly because your bookmark is to an old page, if you delete and recreate it you should solve the issue.

The new 'steam' options allow more customisation, however the default should niw be *very* similar to the previous 'view new content' and you can easily see any other options as a custom stream, and if you wish, make that the default button.

As has been said, in general the new software give an improved service, as well ensuring a robust and stable site going forward. As Richard says, the only practical alternative is to switch completely from and Invision based system to a vBulletin based system, which pros and cons aside, would be a much bigger change than and version update on the current system.

 

Daniel

[Mac of Cygnet]

Can I just add that I was having problems with another (unasked for by me) recent change in appearance which also affected some functionality.  RichM pointed me in the direction of the 'Theme' button at the bottom of (every?) page, which now is defaulting to 'Shift 2017'.  But you can choose 'Legacy', which brings things back to what CWDF used to look like! And also as far as I was concerned, made things work better.   For those who yearn for a legacy, try it.

But I must echo the feelings of MTB and others who are finding the new system difficult and unnecessarily complicated.  Essentially, there is TOO MUCH CHOICE.  We don't need all these options.  They just get in the way.

[RichM]

1 hour ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

Essentially, there is TOO MUCH CHOICE.  We don't need all these options.  They just get in the way.

 

I don't understand, you compliment us by providing you with the choice to select the legacy theme but then go on to say we provide too much choice?

Everyone has different preferences. I appreciate everyone has different opinions and tastes and as such it has been our mission to provide choice wherever possible so that people choose what suits them best rather than taking a one size fits all approach. I don't understand how choice can be a bad thing and I'm pretty sure if we were to take that away, we would be faced with a lot more complaints. With that in mind and looking at it from our perspective, how would you propose we deal with that?

[Mac of Cygnet]

14 hours ago, RichM said:

 

I don't understand, you compliment us by providing you with the choice to select the legacy theme but then go on to say we provide too much choice?

Everyone has different preferences. I appreciate everyone has different opinions and tastes and as such it has been our mission to provide choice wherever possible so that people choose what suits them best rather than taking a one size fits all approach. I don't understand how choice can be a bad thing and I'm pretty sure if we were to take that away, we would be faced with a lot more complaints. With that in mind and looking at it from our perspective, how would you propose we deal with that?

I would guess that the majority of members would prefer that the appearance and functionality would be as close as possible to what CWDF was before the changes earlier this year, when no-one (at least no ordinary user) had to fiddle about with things to get it to their liking, or even working.  I remember the moaning that that went on after the previous change, 3 or 4 (?) years back, but it soon died down as people got used to the new site, and was as nothing compared to the ongoing difficulties people seem to be having this time.  This was because the configuration was (mostly) already set, and people got used to it.

As for the choice of legacy theme, why should there be any other?  It's what people are used to.  It doesn't take long to learn to use a forum, any forum, if things are kept simple.  It's the plethora of choices that make for difficulties.  Different tastes do not have to be catered for - this is a waterways forum, not a design studio.

I have found you and the other staff extremely helpful in solving the problems thrown up by the new site (mine and others), but if things were simpler, with less choice, perhaps you wouldn't have to do so much in this line?

BTW, I'm still getting a huge blank space to the right of each page except the home page and a couple of others.  Any ideas?  Doesn't happen anywhere else.

Thanks

Mac

[MtB]

On 23/07/2017 at 11:43, Mac of Cygnet said:

It's the plethora of choices that make for difficulties.  Different tastes do not have to be catered for - this is a waterways forum, not a design studio.

 

This is dead right, but in addition there is another difficulty. The introduction of extra facilities/functions with meaningless names. "Activity stream" is an excellent example.

There was no explanation of what they are or how to use them offered when the new format was installed, until Nick Norman figured worked out what they are and posted some instructions.

I still don't understand why we need them after wasting several minutes trying to figure them out. One 'activity stream' always used to be fine (VNC) and no-one was demanding 'more choice' because the old format worked excellently. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[RichM]

1 hour ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

I would guess that the majority of members would prefer that the appearance and functionality would be as close as possible to what CWDF was before the changes earlier this year, when no-one (at least no ordinary user) had to fiddle about with things to get it to their liking, or even working.  I remember the moaning that that went on after the previous change, 3 or 4 (?) years back, but it soon died down as people got used to the new site, and was as nothing compared to the ongoing difficulties people seem to be having this time.  This was because the configuration was (mostly) already set, and people got used to it.

As for the choice of legacy theme, why should there be any other?  It's what people are used to.  It doesn't take long to learn to use a forum, any forum, if things are kept simple.  It's the plethora of choices that make for difficulties.  Different tastes do not have to be catered for - this is a waterways forum, not a design studio.

I have found you and the other staff extremely helpful in solving the problems thrown up by the new site (mine and others), but if things were simpler, with less choice, perhaps you wouldn't have to do so much in this line?

BTW, I'm still getting a huge blank space to the right of each page except the home page and a couple of others.  Any ideas?  Doesn't happen anywhere else.

Thanks

Mac

I'm not sure I agree with that. - After the update, we had a fair amount of complaints about the new Activity Streams and the new design. While the design retained the same colour theme, it was different in many ways. 

We addressed this in two ways:

- I paid (out of my own money) for the Shift theme which addresses many design flaws in the legacy theme. Sorry to be frank but if you don't like it, don't use it. The legacy theme is still an option. May I also add that most people use the Shift theme, so I'm sure if I were to take this away I'd be met with even more complaints. 
- Configured the new VNC to replicate the behaviour of the old one as best as we could - granted, it took us longer to do this than it should have but we too have jobs/lives to live

As for the display issue, I'm not entirely sure as I don't have that issue and it's difficult to fix an issue you cannot see or replicate. 

I would suggest trying it in:

- IE
- Chrome
- Firefox

Advise on the browsers that have this issue and it might help me narrow it down.

45 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

This is dead right, but in addition there is another difficulty. The introduction of extra facilities/functions with meaningless names. "Activity stream" is an excellent example.

There was no explanation of what they are or how to use them offered when the new format was installed, until Nick Norman figured worked out what they are and posted some instructions.

I still don't understand why we need them after wasting several minutes trying to figure them out. One 'activity stream' always used to be fine (VNC) and no-one was demanding 'more choice' because the old format worked excellently. 

Sorry, but we were new to it also. While it could have been handled better, it's difficult to predict everything that people will have problems with and as such we took a reactive approach to address the issues and while the default functionality is not identical, it's broadly similar. 

When I was referring to providing more choice, VNC or "Activity Streams" was not one of them. The old VNC was replaced by Activity Streams and this was done by Invision and we've already explained the reasons behind that. We don't develop/code the forum software. 

RichM

[bizzard]

I've had no trouble at all since the new software began when I did the few simple alterations as advised to make it more usable. I have W10 and even still works fine without trouble on my old Vista machines which has had no windows updates nor Firefox updates for a year or more. I don't no much about computing but (keep everything simple) is my motto, don't keep fiddling about with your controls, knobs and buttons and things which I'm sure many folk can't resist doing. Keep fiddling about with things I'm sure confuses and upsets the poor machines which will most likely lead to it suffering very grave electronic attacks, ''sparks, the lot'', culminating in a complete nervous breakdown and busted.  Just my opinion. 

Oi tell a loi.  I had to reset my password once which RichM sorted promptly for me.