Jump to content

Engine Bay Cable Management Qtn


Featured Posts

Hi,  I have a sail away with a brand new engine and semi clean (apart from the odd footprints) engine bay.  The limited cables that are already in the bay when I purchased (cables to starter battery and cables to bow thruster batteries) were all in the black plastic spiral split conduit.

Remembering this is a new boat and I need to follow all the latest regs, is it a requirement to have all other cables in the same conduit or can I connect some to say cable trays en-route to the cabin inverter, 12v supply etc.  This continues to keep things neat but also allows the cables more air around them so not to get too warm.  They would be cable tied to the trays, you know the sort with zig-zag holes and lipid sides.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi - I too bought a sailaway about 6 years ago and it was very satisfying and hard work to self fit out.  My advice is if you wish to comply with the current regs then it is better to read them first, then ask questions here as in the past people have quoted old versions of the regs to questions asked.  Regs are (for me) expensive to buy, but you can borrow them from a library or view them on-line here  http://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/162241/british_standards_online 

However you can not print them, so have your paper and pencil ready..........

As an example you will often be told that you must buy imperial gas pipe as metric pipe is too thin, well the regs have changed, and now you can easily get metric pipe that does comply.

 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good advice to read the actual regs! But also bear in mind the regs are the minimum, often with safety as a priority. So for example I don't think you need to use trunked wiring in the engine bay for wires that are all part of a 12 system, since those wires should be protected by fusing and thus a damaged wire / short circuit isn't a safety issue. But it could be a PITA if a wire gets damaged.

Therefore I would generally protect any exposed wiring looms that could be trod on, abraded by being in contact with steel etc by putting it in flexi trunking /spiral wrap etc. It is very cheap but gives neatness and peace of mind.

Also bear in mind that wiring can be damaged by long term slight rubbing on something hard. Therefore if you are mixing wires and hard surfaces (steel etc) it is better to have the wire secured in firm and positive contact with the surface - so no relative movement - than just draped over it allowing relative movement.

Edited by nicknorman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Hi - I too bought a sailaway about 6 years ago and it was very satisfying and hard work to self fit out.  My advice is if you wish to comply with the current regs then it is better to read them first, then ask questions here as in the past people have quoted old versions of the regs to questions asked.  Regs are (for me) expensive to buy, but you can borrow them from a library or view them on-line here  http://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/162241/british_standards_online 

However you can not print them, so have your paper and pencil ready..........

As an example you will often be told that you must buy imperial gas pipe as metric pipe is too thin, well the regs have changed, and now you can easily get metric pipe that does comply.

 

 

Looking at the BS EN ISO 10133-2012 - Small craft - Electrical systems - Extra-low-voltage d.c. installations

7.3 Conductors and cables shall be supported throughout their length in conduits, cable trunking or trays, or by individual supports at maximum intervals of 450 mm.

I have both the BSI pdf files already.  Just wanted to check am I right in thinking that:
1. I can put cables in engine bay in either conduit or trays, and if in trays they must be supported at max 450mm spacing - likely a lot less than that in reality.
2. All cables behind walls, bulkheads, in the roof etc cannot just 'sit' in the space any more, they either need to be fixed again max of 450mm or in conduit right to the items like switches, lights, sockets etc.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, jono2.0 said:


2. All cables behind walls, bulkheads, in the roof etc cannot just 'sit' in the space any more, they either need to be fixed again max of 450mm or in conduit right to the items like switches, lights, sockets etc.

 

Except that an examiner is never going to check this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, jono2.0 said:

Looking at the BS EN ISO 10133-2012 - Small craft - Electrical systems - Extra-low-voltage d.c. installations

7.3 Conductors and cables shall be supported throughout their length in conduits, cable trunking or trays, or by individual supports at maximum intervals of 450 mm.

I have both the BSI pdf files already.  Just wanted to check am I right in thinking that:
1. I can put cables in engine bay in either conduit or trays, and if in trays they must be supported at max 450mm spacing - likely a lot less than that in reality.
2. All cables behind walls, bulkheads, in the roof etc cannot just 'sit' in the space any more, they either need to be fixed again max of 450mm or in conduit right to the items like switches, lights, sockets etc.

 

From memory that sounds right.  You also need to ensure the cable spec is suitable for the environment it is in, so oil resistant and ok upto say 90C in an engine bay.  Make sure you also have a copy of the Boat Safety Scheme checklist as there are some specific requirements that if not complied with could cause a fail.  For example when designing your battery installation the batteries must be fixed against movement.  Get it right when 'designing' and it cost very little if anything extra.  By designing I usually mean sitting and starring at the space and thinking how shall I do this bit rather than a full set of engineering drawings :lol:  Where it says trays, a lot of people fitting out will interpret a "tray" as including a length of wood - for example along the inside edge of the roof fitted with cable tie basis from which to hang your cables as you go to the front of your boat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, pearley said:

Except that an examiner is never going to check this.

So - do you only ever do work to make your boat 'pass the test' or to actually make it safe ?

Like some folk who empty their boat out prior to the BSS inspection, then replace  everything after they get the certificate, or, the guy who 'swaps' his car wheels for his mates for the MoT test.

Who are you deceiving ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, pearley said:

Except that an examiner is never going to check this.

But the stated aim is to comply with the RCD, not the BSS. The RCD is self-declared so I suppose if you don't mind blantanly lying and set no store by your personal integrity it doesn't matter. But then again, if you want to do a good job when it is easy to comply with the regs, why not do so?

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So - do you only ever do work to make your boat 'pass the test' or to actually make it safe ?

Like some folk who empty their boat out prior to the BSS inspection, then replace  everything after they get the certificate, or, the guy who 'swaps' his car wheels for his mates for the MoT test.

Who are you deceiving ?

 

14 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

But the stated aim is to comply with the RCD, not the BSS. The RCD is self-declared so I suppose if you don't mind blantanly lying and set no store by your personal integrity it doesn't matter. But then again, if you want to do a good job when it is easy to comply with the regs, why not do so?

No I wasn't saying that. It was rather that on older boats, possibly including mine, a lot of cabling behind panels is not fully supported, there is no way it can be done retrospectively and no examiner is going to remove plug sockets or lights to check. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, pearley said:

 

No I wasn't saying that. It was rather that on older boats, possibly including mine, a lot of cabling behind panels is not fully supported, there is no way it can be done retrospectively and no examiner is going to remove plug sockets or lights to check. 

But it's not required retrospectively. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So - do you only ever do work to make your boat 'pass the test' or to actually make it safe ?

Like some folk who empty their boat out prior to the BSS inspection, then replace  everything after they get the certificate, or, the guy who 'swaps' his car wheels for his mates for the MoT test.

Who are you deceiving ?

The amount of times I have heard BSS examiners say, " I'm going to the car/having a cup of tea/going loo, when I come back the gas locker will be empty won't it???":P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, jono2.0 said:

Looking at the BS EN ISO 10133-2012 - Small craft - Electrical systems - Extra-low-voltage d.c. installations

7.3 Conductors and cables shall be supported throughout their length in conduits, cable trunking or trays, or by individual supports at maximum intervals of 450 mm.

I have both the BSI pdf files already.  Just wanted to check am I right in thinking that:
1. I can put cables in engine bay in either conduit or trays, and if in trays they must be supported at max 450mm spacing - likely a lot less than that in reality.
2. All cables behind walls, bulkheads, in the roof etc cannot just 'sit' in the space any more, they either need to be fixed again max of 450mm or in conduit right to the items like switches, lights, sockets etc.

 

The cables don't need trays or trunking if they are supported every 450mm, unless they are single cables without another outer sheath that counts as trunking as in twin type cables.

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 03/10/2017 at 10:39, WotEver said:

But it's not required retrospectively. 

So does that make older boats (most?) more dangerous?

Am I at all likely to suffer injury or damage from a properly fused low voltage cable loose for a metre or so behind linings? Or are these more regulations for their own sake?

I can say that the same regulatory perfection doesn't seem to apply at my place of work; a complete rat's nest of mains voltage and data wiring trailing loose in walls and roof space, all installed by certified electricians.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.