Electric Engines

[ditchcrawler]

I will just remind you of this http://mothershipmarine.com/narrowboat/

 

 

[Athy]

On ‎07‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 10:18, mross said:

English Electric 16SVT

 

 

This is the 16SVT engine acquired by the Ivatt Diesel ReCreation Society to recreate LMS10000.

It is seen here in storage while the project raises money to work on the rest of the loco.

 

see more info about the project at www.lms10000.org

I'd forgotten about that loco - but a glance at my Ian Allan Combined Volume informs me that I saw it and its sister engine no. 10001. Goodness knows where, though.

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I will just remind you of this http://mothershipmarine.com/narrowboat/

 

 

There is a boat in the marina near us with even more panels than that

 

[Jess--]

14 hours ago, stegra said:

 It was established in an earlier thread that 2000Ah of 12v batteries is ample for a typical day's cruising without needing the generator.

all of the below figures assume zero conversion losses (sunshine hours are based on uk monthly averages broken down to a daily average)

2000 Ah would power a 1kW motor for 24 hours or a 6kW motor (more realistic) for 4 hours
assuming you had your roof covered in panels and could get 3000w from them it would take 8 hours of full sun to recharge the bank
a more realistic 1kW of solar would need 24 hours of full sunshine (4 days in summer, 10 days in winter) to recharge the bank.

In short you have to have some method of recharging a 2000 Ah battery bank within a reasonable time, and wind or solar aren't going to cut it.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Jess--

[ditchcrawler]

12 hours ago, peterboat said:

Firmly like me in the electric camp. I realise the limitations but have no intentions of traveling every day so the sun will do its stuff on its day off also it will charge whilst on the move from the solar panels. As a backup I will have the whispergen and of course if I am on the broads their are charging points so I could just plug it in..................

 

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have any published figures to back it up? The latest information that I've read (January of this year) stated that all of the major car manufacturers are currently ramping up diesel car production because they are by far their most popular cars. 

Yes government figures and trade magazine from January on the way down ford dont even make a diesel engine they are PSA offerings now why would they do that?

[Murflynn]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

I care. Where would the extra 30% electricity generation come from if everyone drove electric vehicles?

An average family car user will just pop out to the school, work, shops, etc. most of the time and charge up overnight.  There is no need for additional generating capacity because the car can be recharged off-peak.

Long distance users are another matter and will require fast charging or battery swapping stations as proposed by Tesla.

Many of our generating stations are/will be hardly used because as we increasingly convert to wind power and other renewables, many stations are only required as a standby.  Nuclear, wind and other renewables will provide a base supply; fossil fuels and hydro stations will be switched on and off as required.  It's been happening like that for years, and is one of the reasons why gas powered stations have largely replaced coal burners - gas heated steam turbines can be run up in a few minutes.

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Yes government figures and trade magazine from January on the way down ford dont even make a diesel engine they are PSA offerings now why would they do that?

Perhaps because they're reliable engines and their use saves Ford the trouble and expense of developing new ones of their own?

It's getting hard to keep track of what's made where. After a little research I found that our Suzuki S-Cross, nominally a Japanese make, was built in Hungary and has an Italian engine!

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Jess-- said:

all of the below figures assume zero conversion losses (sunshine hours are based on uk monthly averages broken down to a daily average)

2000 Ah would power a 1kW motor for 24 hours or a 6kW motor (more realistic) for 4 hours
assuming you had your roof covered in panels and could get 3000w from them it would take 8 hours of full sun to recharge the bank
a more realistic 1kW of solar would need 24 hours of full sunshine (4 days in summer, 10 days in winter) to recharge the bank.

In short you have to have some method of recharging a 2000 Ah battery bank within a reasonable time, and wind or solar aren't going to cut it.

You need to read the EBA magazines because much smaller banks are doing a lot more hours. Also remember in locks its turned off unlike most diesels

[Murflynn]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I will just remind you of this http://mothershipmarine.com/narrowboat/

 

 

what is the relevance of a picture of a boat with a nominal 2kW PV array?  that boat won't get far without a diesel engine back-up.

[cereal tiller]

2 hours ago, Edders said:

This is an interesting article about a Routemaster bus (built 1962) being re-engined by Cummins and is now able to meet the ULEZ standards for London planned to take effect from 2018. http://blog.cumminsengines.com/2016/06/23/iconic-london-red-double-decker-bus-goes-green-with-cummins/

The diesel is not dead and buried yet.

Tony

Always wondered why those Routemasters were never simply upgraded with modern Engine,Transmission and Suspension?

That Article proves that it can be easily achieved and the Routemaster may return and outlive it's "modern" Replacements

CT

[cuthound]

Here is an interesting article on the polluting effects of diesel aNDY petrol engines, but appears to ignore that modern diesels (meeting Euro 5 & 6 standards) are fitted with diesel partiparticulate filters and ad blue injection systems, whiche reduce particulates and Nox respectively. 

http://www.air-quality.org.uk/26.php

According  Bosch, adblue in a diesel engine reduces Nox by 95%, so presumably to less than that produced by a catalysed petrol engine.

http://www.bosch.co.uk/en/uk/sustainability_innovation_2/diesel/diesel_a_z_1/diesel_a_z.html

Not sure how many particulates get by a DPF.

is unlikely that diesel engines will be banned, as goods around the world are transported on ships, trucks and trains using diesel engines, and at present there is no viable alternative available.  However I can see diesel engined passenger cars being outlawed eventually.

[mross]

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

is unlikely that diesel engines will be banned, as goods around the world are transported on ships, trucks and trains using diesel engines, and at present there is no viable alternative available.  However I can see diesel engined passenger cars being outlawed eventually.

 

Ships are just beginning to move to LPG.

[Jess--]

11 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Always wondered why those Routemasters were never simply upgraded with modern Engine,Transmission and Suspension?

That Article proves that it can be easily achieved and the Routemaster may return and outlive it's "modern" Replacements

CT

because the re-engineered buses would always be seen as the inefficient polluting things they used to be and could not be seen as a part of a modern "green" public transport system

[cereal tiller]

1 minute ago, mross said:

Ships are just beginning to move to LPG.

Hope their Gas Bottles are in a proper locker with restraints and good ventilation?

[mross]

4 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Hope their Gas Bottles are in a proper locker with restraints and good ventilation?

They will still use diesel engines, capable of running on HFO/MDO/LPG although they might not use the HFO - not sure.

[Edders]

9 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

because the re-engineered buses would always be seen as the inefficient polluting things they used to be and could not be seen as a part of a modern "green" public transport system

I think that the "green" Routemaster would be an exception and would be welcomed back as it is much missed as an efficient people mover for London (as it was specifically designed for). It is an icon after all.

Tony

[cuthound]

Here is a photo of a green Route master bus.

 

[Edders]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

Here is a photo of a green Route master bus.

 

 

[MtB]

The routemaster was phased out due to the open boarding deck at the back.

Deemed too dangerous in today's safety-fixated society.

[Edders]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The routemaster was phased out due to the open boarding deck at the back.

Deemed too dangerous in today's safety-fixated society.

The new Routemaster has 3 entrances, the rear one being an open platform (with a pole) which is kept open when there is a conductor on board allowing hop on and off use, not unlike the original?

Tony

[Robbo]

10 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

With regards to cars, I suspect someone will develop a system that is superior to carting lots of batteries round, and that electric cars are a temporary staging post on our way to "the next big thing"

One of the biggest problems with electric anything is the storage, oil based fuel is so energy dense and easy to transport.   I think Hydrogen will be the future fuel for canal boats (and cars), but there is no real "jerry can" solution.

[Detling]

 I suppose one could have a huge generator and use super capacitors, the Chinese have a tram system using capacitors and they get enough charge in for 10 kilometers of running in under 30 seconds. The power though is 400V DC and 1750 Amps, ouch.   

Out of interest re diesel future, the current hype is mainly about Nox, if you stopped all diesel transport for a week the (national)  NOx level may fall by 25%  as gas burning produces it. So all these gas fired power stations to provide base load, and all that central heating in houses, oh dear they produce 50% of the UK's Nox , Particulates are mainly from oil burning or coal, so a poorly maintained banger leaving a smoke screen is by far the worst, whatever the fuel.

 

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, cuthound said:

Here is an interesting article on the polluting effects of diesel aNDY petrol engines, but appears to ignore that modern diesels (meeting Euro 5 & 6 standards) are fitted with diesel partiparticulate filters and ad blue injection systems, whiche reduce particulates and Nox respectively. 

http://www.air-quality.org.uk/26.php

According  Bosch, adblue in a diesel engine reduces Nox by 95%, so presumably to less than that produced by a catalysed petrol engine.

http://www.bosch.co.uk/en/uk/sustainability_innovation_2/diesel/diesel_a_z_1/diesel_a_z.html

Not sure how many particulates get by a DPF.

is unlikely that diesel engines will be banned, as goods around the world are transported on ships, trucks and trains using diesel engines, and at present there is no viable alternative available.  However I can see diesel engined passenger cars being outlawed eventually.

Unfortunately the the particulate matter coming out of a car with DPF is so small it passes through the lungs and into the blood stream where it does its damage. We have had this discussion only a month ago DPFs get removed because they dont work so in the real world diesels are spewing out gross pollution. Also ad blue deletes are available to sort out the problems with it again more pollution.

When diesel tests are a real test ie not smoke but the pollutants coming out of the tailpipe like petrols then the playing field will be level and more diesels will be failed for producing measurable pollution

[Sir Nibble]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The routemaster was phased out due to the open boarding deck at the back.

Deemed too dangerous in today's safety-fixated society.

When I was a going to school on a school bus some lad grabbed the pole and swung out with the bus still doing a good 10 mph in order to hit the ground running.

Pillar box.