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magictime

Asking price vs. sale price

Asking price vs. sale price  

72 members have voted

  1. 1. Thinking about transactions you've been involved in as either the buyer or the seller of a boat, how much lower (on average) was the final sale price than the original asking price?

    • Not at all, or barely at all
      16
    • About 5%
      13
    • About 10%
      20
    • About 15%
      10
    • About 20%
      4
    • 25% or more
      13


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Thought this poll might be of use to people (especially newbies) trying to gauge which boats might be within their budget once the haggling's done, and what sort of offers might be perceived by sellers as reasonable.

 

Obviously every transaction is different and it all depends how motivated the seller is, whether the boat is overpriced to begin with, whether the buyer is offering cash on the spot, etc., but I for one would be curious to get a very general sense of how the prices boats actually sell for compare to the prices they're advertised at.

 

Edited to add: the only non-auction transaction I've been involved in was the sale of our old boat, advertised at £11k and sold for £10k. So I've voted "About 10%".

Edited by magictime
  • Greenie 1

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Same 10% give or take for me. My boat advertised at £25,000, final agreed price was £22,000 sts. Minor works done by seller based on survey. Happy at the time and not felt any different since.

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On my 2 occasions as a buyer both over 25% off the original asking price, although both had been reduced from the original price when I made my bid. As a seller it was around 10%. My buys were through brokers my sale was private through Apollo Duck, draw your own conclusions from that. Not sure how to vote in your poll.

Edited by Steve_C

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My previous boat in 2008:

 

Advertised at £27k,bought for £25500.

 

I offered it for sale in 2013 at £25k, accepted £23000.

 

Current boat, offered exactly the asking price because it was bang on, and I didn't want to muck the seller about.

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This boat was up for sale at 58k and was reduced to 55k I paid cash twenty minutes after first setting eyes on it 45k.

My previous boat was advertised at 65k and I paid Cash within twenty minutes of first seeing it 45K and kept it 3 years and sold for 50k

Cash always was and always will be king despite what many people choose to believe so if you can at all possible get hold of real money my advise is to do so. Bank transfer at the actual time of the sale though was one of them and the other proper folding stuff. So it proves many people simply overprice their boats.

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I find the whole thing about 'paying cash' a bit odd. I mean, it's not like selling a house, where finding a cash buyer rather than someone needing to take out a mortgage is a rarity. Almost everybody shopping around for boats is a 'cash buyer' in that sense, aren't they? So does it really just mean 'I'll pay you today without messing around with a survey'?

 

As for 'proper folding stuff', is there not a risk that the sight of a briefcase full of £20 notes could ring alarm bells for some sellers? I think I'd be worrying I was being handed £30k of forged notes, or being used in some sort of money laundering operation, or something!

  • Greenie 2

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I find the whole thing about 'paying cash' a bit odd. I mean, it's not like selling a house, where finding a cash buyer rather than someone needing to take out a mortgage is a rarity. Almost everybody shopping around for boats is a 'cash buyer' in that sense, aren't they? So does it really just mean 'I'll pay you today without messing around with a survey'?

 

As for 'proper folding stuff', is there not a risk that the sight of a briefcase full of £20 notes could ring alarm bells for some sellers? I think I'd be worrying I was being handed £30k of forged notes, or being used in some sort of money laundering operation, or something!

 

In my case I never have and never will have a survey so yes the decision is instant. I think after several tyre kickers a straight John Bull buyer is what most people like. Yes proper folding paper money was gleefully accepted on one of my last two transactions the other we both went straight to my bank and transfered cash from my account to theirs immediately so it was all done in a couple of hours of my visit. The last boat I sold the bloke actualy paid the full asking price into my account whilst I was still living on it enabling me to get the great deal I did. Offers and counter offers and such faffing around dont appeal to me.

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I find the whole thing about 'paying cash' a bit odd. I mean, it's not like selling a house, where finding a cash buyer rather than someone needing to take out a mortgage is a rarity. Almost everybody shopping around for boats is a 'cash buyer' in that sense, aren't they? So does it really just mean 'I'll pay you today without messing around with a survey'?

 

As for 'proper folding stuff', is there not a risk that the sight of a briefcase full of £20 notes could ring alarm bells for some sellers? I think I'd be worrying I was being handed £30k of forged notes, or being used in some sort of money laundering operation, or something!

 

Your bank will also often want some proof of where the funds have come from if you turn up with a big bag of cash to deposit. Most brokers won't take it and will direct you to a bank to deposit in in their count.

 

Asyou say, pretty much every boat buyer is a 'cash buyer' what else would they be buying with?

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Your bank will also often want some proof of where the funds have come from if you turn up with a big bag of cash to deposit. Most brokers won't take it and will direct you to a bank to deposit in in their count.

 

Asyou say, pretty much every boat buyer is a 'cash buyer' what else would they be buying with?

 

You would be suprised. Many people actualy borrow money for boat purchases and have to secure it against the boat and have a survey to prove its value and cash never changes hands.

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In my case I never have and never will have a survey so yes the decision is instant. I think after several tyre kickers a straight John Bull buyer is what most people like. Yes proper folding paper money was gleefully accepted on one of my last two transactions the other we both went straight to my bank and transfered cash from my account to theirs immediately so it was all done in a couple of hours of my visit. The last boat I sold the bloke actualy paid the full asking price into my account whilst I was still living on it enabling me to get the great deal I did. Offers and counter offers and such faffing around dont appeal to me.

 

I suppose if I were buying a boat in the 50k+ bracket I might be tempted to do without a survey myself; I mean, I assume we talking there about a newish boat in tip-top used condition. It'd feel like more of a gamble if I were looking at a 25-year-old boat advertised for £30k!

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You would be suprised. Many people actualy borrow money for boat purchases and have to secure it against the boat and have a survey to prove its value and cash never changes hands.

 

Very few boats are purchased with finance secured against the boat, probably less than 0.5%. The finance companies are also usually pretty quick at paying the seller once the survey is complete. Most buyers will have a survey anyway, so announcing yourself as a "cash buyer" doesn't really make any difference to the time it takes to complete and provides no real benefit for the seller.

 

Announcing that you are prepared to complete quickly on the purchase without a survey is the part that gives you bargaining power, not the method of payment

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You would be suprised. Many people actualy borrow money for boat purchases and have to secure it against the boat and have a survey to prove its value and cash never changes hands.

I can accept that many people borrow money for boat purchase, but few will secure the loan against the boat. Thay would require a marine mortgage, and there aren't many providers of those in the market.

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Very few boats are purchased with finance secured against the boat, probably less than 0.5%. The finance companies are also usually pretty quick at paying the seller once the survey is complete. Most buyers will have a survey anyway, so announcing yourself as a "cash buyer" doesn't really make any difference to the time it takes to complete and provides no real benefit for the seller.

 

Announcing that you are prepared to complete quickly on the purchase without a survey is the part that gives you bargaining power, not the method of payment

 

Realy? I bow to your expert knowledge. I have bought eight boats non with a survey. The bloke who bought my last boat didnt have a survey, the bloke who bought the one before that didnt have a survey. In fact of the seven boats I have sold only one person had a survey and cash most certainly helps if you buy from me. I dont know what source you get your figures from.

  • Greenie 1

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Announcing that you are prepared to complete quickly on the purchase without a survey is the part that gives you bargaining power, not the method of payment

 

Yes - it was the fact I had 'cash waiting in the bank' that got me 28% off the asking. A briefcase full of cash would have made no difference whatsoever. We were with the same bank so the online transfer was instant anyway. I would never accept or pay cash for a boat.

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As of right now, with 33 votes cast, the figures show roughly a quarter of transactions involving a small discount ("around 5%" or less); around a quarter involving a large discount ("around 20%" or more); and around a half involving a moderate discount ("around 10%" or "around 15%").

 

Not sure what to make of that! It suggests, I suppose, that around a quarter of boats are sensibly priced, or even underpriced, to begin with; around a quarter are substantially overpriced; and around half are priced moderately above their real value, to allow for negotiation.

 

In practical terms, this suggests to me a rule of thumb along the lines of:

 

If you're confident that a boat is worth at least the asking price, maybe offer 10% less but be prepared to pay full whack or close to it.

 

If you're confident that the asking price of a boat is way too high, don't be afraid to try it on with an offer of maybe 30% less.

 

If the asking price of a boat seems about right (compared to the asking prices of similar boats), but you don't have the experience/expertise to say any more than that, go in with an offer of 15-20% below asking price and hope to settle on a discount of around 10% subject to survey.

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Our boat was advertised at £29950 and our first offer was a very low £11k. After walking away, and some counter offers we finally settled on £17.5k subject to survey (which was much better than we were expecting it to be!).

 

Tom

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As of right now, with 33 votes cast, the figures show roughly a quarter of transactions involving a small discount ("around 5%" or less); around a quarter involving a large discount ("around 20%" or more); and around a half involving a moderate discount ("around 10%" or "around 15%").

 

Not sure what to make of that! It suggests, I suppose, that around a quarter of boats are sensibly priced, or even underpriced, to begin with; around a quarter are substantially overpriced; and around half are priced moderately above their real value, to allow for negotiation.

 

In practical terms, this suggests to me a rule of thumb along the lines of:

 

If you're confident that a boat is worth at least the asking price, maybe offer 10% less but be prepared to pay full whack or close to it.

 

If you're confident that the asking price of a boat is way too high, don't be afraid to try it on with an offer of maybe 30% less.

 

If the asking price of a boat seems about right (compared to the asking prices of similar boats), but you don't have the experience/expertise to say any more than that, go in with an offer of 15-20% below asking price and hope to settle on a discount of around 10% subject to survey.

Which seems to mean, "offer what it's worth" on the whole :)

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Your bank will also often want some proof of where the funds have come from if you turn up with a big bag of cash to deposit. Most brokers won't take it and will direct you to a bank to deposit in in their count.

 

Asyou say, pretty much every boat buyer is a 'cash buyer' what else would they be buying with?

If you are going to put the cash in a bank then you are defeating what is probably the primary purpose of accepting cash in the first place.

 

Tom and Bex (post 16)

 

I think asking £30,000 for a boat which the vendor thinks is worth about half of that, is wrong. Of course there is a element of 'buyer beware' but your post made me feel uncomfortable. I don't think I would have continued with the transaction if I thought the seller was so dishonourable.

 

Maybe I'm a bit naive.

 

Frank.

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As of right now, with 33 votes cast, the figures show roughly a quarter of transactions involving a small discount ("around 5%" or less); around a quarter involving a large discount ("around 20%" or more); and around a half involving a moderate discount ("around 10%" or "around 15%").

 

Not sure what to make of that! It suggests, I suppose, that around a quarter of boats are sensibly priced, or even underpriced, to begin with; around a quarter are substantially overpriced; and around half are priced moderately above their real value, to allow for negotiation.

 

In practical terms, this suggests to me a rule of thumb along the lines of:

 

If you're confident that a boat is worth at least the asking price, maybe offer 10% less but be prepared to pay full whack or close to it.

 

If you're confident that the asking price of a boat is way too high, don't be afraid to try it on with an offer of maybe 30% less.

 

If the asking price of a boat seems about right (compared to the asking prices of similar boats), but you don't have the experience/expertise to say any more than that, go in with an offer of 15-20% below asking price and hope to settle on a discount of around 10% subject to survey.

Without determining when the boats were purchased (or sold) it is almost meaningless because of the way the market has changed recently.

 

When I bought my boat in 2014, the market was fairly neutral, with boats remaining on sale for a few weeks at least, but since then it has become a sellers market. Boats sell quickly now, so low offers are less acceptable, indeed if you see are boat you really like it is probably best to offer 10% less and if it rejected buy it at full price. If you don't someone else will.

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I would never accept or pay cash for a boat.

Why not? Cash doesn't bounce.

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Why not? Cash doesn't bounce.

Could be forged, and you have to jump through hoops to pay large sums of cash into a bank now, because of the anti-money laundering regulations. Even bank transfers may have to be undertaken in stages because of limits on how much you can transfer in a single transaction. I had to do three transactions to buy my boat because of these regulations.

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Could be forged, and you have to jump through hoops to pay large sums of cash into a bank now, because of the anti-money laundering regulations.

jumping through hoops?

What declaring you've 'sold your boat' when they ask where you got all that cash?

  • Greenie 1

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Which seems to mean, "offer what it's worth" on the whole smile.png

 

Well, maybe slightly less, to allow for a bit of haggling before settling on that final figure.

 

But yes, of course there's no great mystery about what sort of offer to make if you have a solid working knowledge of the used boat market and can quickly and confidently recognise the true market value of any given boat. As I say in my original post, though, I thought this poll might just help less experienced buyers get a general sense of how those market values (as reflected in final sale prices) relate to the asking prices they see advertised.

 

To illustrate, if (touch wood!) I find myself shopping around for a boat in a few years' time with a budget of £30k or so, I now feel a bit more confident that boats advertised at c. £35k might be worth looking at, and that an opening offer of maybe £28k on such a boat might not be perceived as outright insulting. Although...

 

 

Without determining when the boats were purchased (or sold) it is almost meaningless because of the way the market has changed recently.

 

When I bought my boat in 2014, the market was fairly neutral, with boats remaining on sale for a few weeks at least, but since then it has become a sellers market. Boats sell quickly now, so low offers are less acceptable, indeed if you see are boat you really like it is probably best to offer 10% less and if it rejected buy it at full price. If you don't someone else will.

 

...this is a fair point!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the poll results gloss over differences between cheaper and more expensive boats, too - e.g. whether you're more likely to get 25% off a boat priced at £16k than once priced at £48k - but I was trying to keep it simple.

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Could be forged,

...as opposed to electronic payment means, which of course are always above board and exempt from fraudulent activity?

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