Asking price vs. sale price

[alan_fincher]

...as opposed to electronic payment means, which of course are always above board and exempt from fraudulent activity?

Electronic funds transfer does not allow you to transfer what has not already been accepted by a bank as "real money".

 

Accepting a bunch of forged notes which gets recpognised as such when you try to spend them or pay them into a bank means you no longer have a boat, and you don't have the money either.

[cuthound]

...as opposed to electronic payment means, which of course are always above board and exempt from fraudulent activity?

Well, depending on how quickly you tell the bank about the fraud, there is at least some protection, unlike cash.

 

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/identity-theft-and-scams-what-you-are-liable-for

[Athy]

Electronic funds transfer does not allow you to transfer what has not already been accepted by a bank as "real money".

 

Accepting a bunch of forged notes which gets recpognised as such when you try to spend them or pay them into a bank means you no longer have a boat, and you don't have the money either.

Very good.

Electronic payments can be retracted - haven't you heard of that happening?

You don't, of course, hand over the keys and documents until the money has been paid into the bank. Oh, by the sound of it, perhaps you might!

 

In my opinion and experience, cheque is best.

[alan_fincher]

Could be forged, and you have to jump through hoops to pay large sums of cash into a bank now, because of the anti-money laundering regulations. Even bank transfers may have to be undertaken in stages because of limits on how much you can transfer in a single transaction. I had to do three transactions to buy my boat because of these regulations.

 

I don't think limits placed by banks on how much you can transfer by online payments have anything to to do with anti=money laundering regulations do they?

 

If that were true you would not be able to do CHAPS transfers for sums far greater than any canal boat might sell for, which of course you can. As an example Nat West limits you to £20,000nif you initiate requests by personal banking, but you can walk into a branch and initiate a request for 10 times that amount (or more), simply by paying the fee for a CHAPS transfer. If there were legal limits in law, that would not be the case would it?

In my opinion and experience, cheque is best.

 

Yes, dead easy to get a cheque accepted for the price of a decent narrow boat - not!

[Athy]

 

 

 

Yes, dead easy to get a cheque accepted for the price of a decent narrow boat - not!

Why not? Last time I sold a boat I was paid by cheque. Our current boat was paid for by cheque - well, several cheques in fact. Where is the problem? Once again, of course one doesn't release the keys until the cheque clears, but that takes only a few days.

[cuthound]

I don't think limits placed by banks on how much you can transfer by online payments have anything to to do with anti=money laundering regulations do they?

 

If that were true you would not be able to do CHAPS transfers for sums far greater than any canal boat might sell for, which of course you can. As an example Nat West limits you to £20,000nif you initiate requests by personal banking, but you can walk into a branch and initiate a request for 10 times that amount (or more), simply by paying the fee for a CHAPS transfer. If there were legal limits in law, that would not be the case would it?

 

Yes, dead easy to get a cheque accepted for the price of a decent narrow boat - not!

It would seem that you are correct, although that is what my bank told me when I transferred the money using the "Faster Payments" method, because it is free unlike CHAPS.

 

It seems each bank can set it's own limits.

 

http://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/transaction-limits

[mrsmelly]

Very good.

Electronic payments can be retracted - haven't you heard of that happening?

You don't, of course, hand over the keys and documents until the money has been paid into the bank. Oh, by the sound of it, perhaps you might!

 

In my opinion and experience, cheque is best.

 

I think its more personal preference. I always have and always will use cash whenever possible. There are risks involved in any transaction. There are risks involved driving to work. There is a sliding scale of peeps worried about stuff with very very bothered at one end and not so bothered at the other. I have never been given wads of dodgy money but I hear daily on programmes on the telly of sensible people transfering large wads of their money to fraudsters by electronic transfer and never seeing their money again.

[Athy]

I have never been given wads of dodgy money but I hear daily on programmes on the telly of sensible people transfering large wads of their money to fraudsters by electronic transfer and never seeing their money again.

Absolutely. Greeno for you.

[alan_fincher]

It would seem that you are correct, although that is what my bank told me when I transferred the money using the "Faster Payments" method, because it is free unlike CHAPS.

 

It seems each bank can set it's own limits.

 

http://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/transaction-limits

 

It's staggering how different the limits are though.

 

Some banks only £10K via faster payments whereas others are apparently allowed to accept you sending a quarter of a million, (assuming you have it, of course!).

 

Nat West limits you to £20K per day (shared if you are a joint account), so (say) transferring £50K has to be spread over 3 days - not great for a boat purchase.

 

It angers me that if you have to resort to CHAPS to do it as a single transaction, because the bank has set arbitrary limits for Faster Payments, that you then end up paying, (mid £20 figure).

 

This may not sound a big thing, but we have acted as executors for a number of estates over recent years, and if large sums have to be distributed quickly to a number of people, then we have actually paid out significant sums in CHAPs fees.

 

Presumably Athy would send a number of high value cheques in the post, hope they all arrive safely, and wait for them all to clear.

[chubby]

When i bought mine i was restricted to 10 K per transfer . But i just at the computer at the branch local to where the survey was carried out that morning and carried out 3 x 10k transfers one after the other .

All done in twenty mins or so .

[Athy]

 

 

 

 

Presumably Athy would send a number of high value cheques in the post, hope they all arrive safely, and wait for them all to clear.

For what?

Yes, I have often done this, not least in my capacity as my Dad's executor a decade or so ago. It's a very normal way of making, and receiving, payments. Where is the problem?

[alan_fincher]

When i bought mine i was restricted to 10 K per transfer . But i just at the computer at the branch local to where the survey was carried out that morning and carried out 3 x 10k transfers one after the other .

All done in twenty mins or so .

But at some banks like Nat West the limits are a total for any day, irrespective of number of transactions they are done in, so this is not allowed.

 

You could with NatWest set up 3 £!0K payments now, but each would have to be for a working day, so if I did one now I could pre set up Friday, Monday & Tuesday, but full payment would not be until Tuesday. In the meantime the transferee has firstly £10K, then £20K of my money, and I don't have the goods.

[peterboat]

I bought this boat from New and Used boat company. I knew it was a repossession It was up for £76,000 my first offer was 40k we changed hands at 48.5k I paid by card on the spot 10k by credit card {I had the funds but wanted protection} which was a wise move as they covered a couple of faults. No survey done and not needed on a 2 year old boat

[WotEver]

We made a £40k transaction with a debit card. Just took a short call to the bank's fraud dept to confirm it was us and the deal was done in a couple of minutes. That'll only work with a broker though because not many private sellers have card facilities l!

[alan_fincher]

For what?

Yes, I have often done this, not least in my capacity as my Dad's executor a decade or so ago. It's a very normal way of making, and receiving, payments. Where is the problem?

 

Well for one thing a decade ago, interest rates would have been high enough that if the sums were large, you would have cost the beneficiaries more in lost interest than had you done an "instant" transfer using CHAPS. (Now rates are so poor, less of an issue I guess).

 

A bit of Googling reveals that whereas around 4 billion cheques were written and processed annually in the early 1990s, that figure has reduced to only around 500 million now, (so an 8 times decrease in volumes). The UK banking industry have seriously looked at trying to get rid of cheques all together in recent years, although I think for the time being their use will continue in rapidly dwindling numbers. (usage seems to now be falling over 10% in each new calendar year).

 

Their days may not yet be fully numbered, but the stats speak a lot about how most of us now do things, and for people like me, I doubt a quite even 5 cheques in any year. That is very much the current norm, even if not how you still operate.

Edited February 17, 2017 by alan_fincher

[WotEver]

Pet peeve alert.

 

How can you have an '8 times decrease'? 8 times 4 billion is 32 billion, so has it decreased to negative 28 billion?

 

Or perhaps you meant a decrease to an eighth of the original number?

[MtB]

We made a £40k transaction with a debit card. Just took a short call to the bank's fraud dept to confirm it was us and the deal was done in a couple of minutes. That'll only work with a broker though because not many private sellers have card facilities l!

 

 

Curiously I have!

 

If I sell my boat I can accept payment by credit card.

[Athy]

 

 

Their days may not yet be fully numbered, but the stats speak a lot about how most of us now do things, and for people like me, I doubt a quite even 5 cheques in any year. That is very much the current norm, even if not how you still operate.

That's absolutely fair enough. You use methods which you prefer, and I use methods which I prefer. Without leafing through old cheque books and counting them up, I'd guess that I issue 40 or 50 cheques per year, and receive slightly fewer (payments from customers and clients, dividend payments and, I'm delighted to say, three from Ernie already this year).

I think I wrote my first cheque in 1969. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Jess--]

when buying my boat I was hit by natwests 20k per day limit, so 20k was paid from the savings account and the remainder was paid from current account (and was then repaid from savings the following day)

 

after haggling we paid 19% less than the asking price

[magictime]

All this talk about payment methods has me wondering if it'd be worth paying at least a deposit via credit card just to get Section 75 protection (if buying a boat worth £30,000 or less via a broker):

 

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

 

That would, in theory, mean you could get your money back if you ended up in some nightmare scenario where the broker went bust while sitting on your cash. We've actually made successful use of Section 75 ourselves to get our money back when a boatyard failed to refund us for an incomplete job and then went bust.

[Laurie Booth]

 

 

Curiously I have!

 

If I sell my boat I can accept payment by credit card.

I can as well

Even American Express

[Señor Chris]

 

I hear daily on programmes on the telly of sensible people transfering large wads of their money to fraudsters by electronic transfer and never seeing their money again.

 

To people they have actually met? I don't think so.

 

Using cash has risks - even cost one boater his life.

 

Cheques make more sense than cash but I wouldn't use them myself as I no longer have a cheque book.

[WotEver]

I've sent some money to a Nigerian prince. He's going to send me £30m any day now.

[whitty1]

Ours went up for £28.5k (which was how much we paid 5 years before!) and sold for £28k. I was amazed and delighted.

[MtB]

Another Nigerian prince died recently and left £20m to battersea dogs home.

 

His solicitor said this was because no one would answer his emails.