What to ask for in fitout?

[MtB]

650 AH per day works out, if smoothed and averaged, to 27A draw on the batteries 24/7/365. What on earth is the OP doing with it all!

[Neil Smith]

650 AH per day works out, if smoothed and averaged, to 27A draw on the batteries 24/7/365. What on earth is the OP doing with it all!

I assume power his boat as no mention of engine, now that would make sence.

 

Neil

[JJPHG]

650 AH per day works out, if smoothed and averaged, to 27A draw on the batteries 24/7/365. What on earth is the OP doing with it all!

 

Happy to say that following advice in this posting I've got it down to below 300Ah now. Nearly half of that is computer, printer, ipad/phone charger, wifi stuff and camera (needed for hobby and retirement income)

[MtB]

 

Happy to say that following advice in this posting I've got it down to below 300Ah now. Nearly half of that is computer, printer, ipad/phone charger, wifi stuff and camera (needed for hobby and retirement income)

 

 

I think a cocooned and thoroughly silenced built in diesel generator will be the answer for you. A mate of mine had one on his boat that was so quiet you had to listen very carefully to hear it standing on the bank right next to it, running.

[ditchcrawler]

One summers evening we were sitting at the bows of a friends Narrowboat, he fired up his Fischer Pander genny and non of us noticed it start up

[Ally]

Happy to say that following advice in this posting I've got it down to below 300Ah now. Nearly half of that is computer, printer, ipad/phone charger, wifi stuff and camera (needed for hobby and retirement income)

....and some of that could be converted to 12v.. now then, things to ask for other than power....toilet options...clever storage (cellar boxes under the floor /kick board drawers etc etc).....decent paint job, hand coach painted not sprayed.....2 pack blacking.....the list goes on.....

[WotEver]

I think a cocooned and thoroughly silenced built in diesel generator will be the answer for you.

I agree. Even 300Ah will have you obsessing over batteries otherwise. (Or replacing them with monotonous regularity).

Edited January 29, 2017 by WotEver

[MtB]

I agree. Even 300Ah will have you obsessing over batteries otherwise. (Or replacing them with monotonous regularity).

 

 

HAY what are you doing posting this time of night???!!

 

 

Errr.....

[Robbo]

 

Happy to say that following advice in this posting I've got it down to below 300Ah now. Nearly half of that is computer, printer, ipad/phone charger, wifi stuff and camera (needed for hobby and retirement income)

If your taking the watts rating of the back of the devices and calculating from that then your results will be way over. To get get an acurate amount use a plug in Power monitoring device and see how many watt-hours you use in a average week in normal usage and then calculate from that.

[Alan de Enfield]

If your taking the watts rating of the back of the devices and calculating from that then your results will be way over. To get get an acurate amount use a plug in Power monitoring device and see how many watt-hours you use in a average week in normal usage and then calculate from that.

 

That is obviously the 'correct' way to do it but it becomes a little difficult when the boat doesn't yet exist, the planned appliances are just a 'figment of your imagination. and the builder asks "how many batteries do you need, what size of inverter, what size generator ..............." ?

[Robbo]

 

That is obviously the 'correct' way to do it but it becomes a little difficult when the boat doesn't yet exist, the planned appliances are just a 'figment of your imagination. and the builder asks "how many batteries do you need, what size of inverter, what size generator ..............." ?

It sounds like the OP is ysing a lot of his stuff already as over half are from computers, etc. Edited January 29, 2017 by Robbo

[hughc]

The fit out is important, of course it is, but, if you are considering a new build of either a narrow or wide beam there are more important considerations. If you're gong to CC then you should, as your primary concern, choose a builder who produces hulls that swim well and look right. Long after you have decided on the colour of the work tops or whether or not you need a hairdryer the shape and style of the boat will be what takes your eye every time you leave or return to it. Any part of the fitout can be changed the hull is the most important consideration. Do not be seduced by glossy fitouts of clone craft hulls that swim like bricks and look like sheds. Regards, HughC.

[JJPHG]

....and some of that could be converted to 12v.. now then, things to ask for other than power....toilet options...clever storage (cellar boxes under the floor /kick board drawers etc etc).....decent paint job, hand coach painted not sprayed.....2 pack blacking.....the list goes on.....

Toilet - yes but haven't a clue (yet) on which is best or what is what. We had a clever chemical jobbie that rotated around to save space in the motorhome. Thinking along the lines of pump out with portable pump-out kit as expecting to be away from amenities for several days at a time. The machinators look good on youtube but I'm not expecting to put anything apart from the usual down (though my phone does have a habit of throwing itself in), so not sure they are worth the money (for me anyway). Starting to settle along the lines of a 3.5VA inverter a nice cocooned genny and a bank of 6 200Ah batteries (type yet to be decided), with 800-1000W solar, depending what will fit. Now I have no idea how much space that will take up but quite a bit I would imagine, so clever storage is going to be very high on the list.

 

Now paint - excuse my ignorance but why not spray the blacking (I had to look up what 2 pack was)?

[JJPHG]

The fit out is important, of course it is, but, if you are considering a new build of either a narrow or wide beam there are more important considerations. If you're gong to CC then you should, as your primary concern, choose a builder who produces hulls that swim well and look right. Long after you have decided on the colour of the work tops or whether or not you need a hairdryer the shape and style of the boat will be what takes your eye every time you leave or return to it. Any part of the fitout can be changed the hull is the most important consideration. Do not be seduced by glossy fitouts of clone craft hulls that swim like bricks and look like sheds. Regards, HughC.

Definitely and an expensive 24 hour flight will be booked to check out styles (and handling - if its possible) long before I give anybody any of my money. I'm looking 3 to 4 years ahead so even with the lead in time of some of the more popular builders that should give me a couple of years to pin down things. That's assuming I don't go down the route of second hand first.

[Alan de Enfield]

Thinking along the lines of pump out with portable pump-out kit as expecting to be away from amenities for several days at a time. .......................

 

Don't go there !!!!

 

(How to alienate fellow boaters - use a self pump-out kit in a toilet that was never meant to take 100s of litres at a time, get a good dose of 'blow-back' and skulk off down the cut without cleaning it all up, shouting "shit happens")

 

A 'standard' pump-out tank should hold at least 4 weeks of sewage, on a 'fat-boat' you could probably double that tank size, so being away for "several days at a time'" is not an issue.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

 

I think from the sound of it that to be virtually self sufficient power wise a widebeam is the way to go to accommodate the batteries (I like the sound of the lithium ones) and solar panels needed

 

I don't really get that? Most narrowboats don't have any problems accommodating batteries. You may have more of a point with accommodating solar panels, but nobody buys a widebeam because it has a big roof!

 

Being self-sufficient (electrically) on a boat isn't all about generation and storage of power. You can have as big a battery bank as you like, but when it's down at 50% capacity it's going to take a lot longer to recharge than a smaller bank. So you really need to think about ways to reduce your power consumption in the first place. There are very good LED lights/replacement bulbs on the market now which will reduce your power consumption. If you want TV think about alternatives - I have a small 10" 12v flatscreen that draws only 1amp. I also have a small gas fridge and when you hear about battery woes on this forum it's often the small but constant power demand of the fridge which the user is failing to keep up with in terms of battery charging.

 

Finally, as a widebeam owner myself for the last 11 years I've got to agree with what some of the others here have said. I love my widebeam. It's a good boat and has been a good home. I've covered more waterways including tidal waters on it than most narrowboat owners I know, and more than many narrowboaters on this forum. Contrary to what you'll hear on this forum, whether a boat moves from its mooring has much more to do with the owner than the boat. However, if you're retired and CCing it makes much more sense to go for a narrowboat.

Edited January 29, 2017 by blackrose

[Robbo]

 

I don't really get that? Most narrowboats don't have any problems accommodating batteries.

I disagree, most canal boats I've seen just seem to be able to just accommodate leisure battery sizes and are difficult to access.

 

Decent batteries are either alot taller like tubular 2v traction or physically a lot bigger.

[mross]

If you have a generator or alternator big enough, the time to charge the batteries will be the same regardless of the battery bank capacity. That is to say, a bigger bank does not take longer to charge.

Edited January 29, 2017 by mross

[Alan de Enfield]

I disagree, most canal boats I've seen just seem to be able to just accommodate leisure battery sizes and are difficult to access.

 

Decent batteries are either alot taller like tubular 2v traction or physically a lot bigger.

 

I agree - but that is down to either bad planning when 'designing' your new boat, or buying 2nd hand and having to put up with what the previous owner / builder decided was OK,

 

If you are spending £100k + on a new 'custom-build' (as the OP is) I'd suggest that you can have whatever battery specification, in-built generator etc. that you want.

That is the benefit of doing what the OP is doing.

[blackrose]

I disagree, most canal boats I've seen just seem to be able to just accommodate leisure battery sizes and are difficult to access.

 

Decent batteries are either alot taller like tubular 2v traction or physically a lot bigger.

 

Well, that depends on how they've been installed, not the boat. My point was that it's perfectly possible to be electrically self-sufficient with 400a/h battery bank - many people do it.

If you have a generator or alternator big enough, the time to charge the batteries will be the same regardless of the battery bank capacity. That is to say, a bigger bank does not take longer to charge.

 

That's not true! Given the same size alternator or generator/battery charger, a battery bank of 1000 a/h which is at 50% capacity will take longer to charge than a 400 a/h battery bank which is at 50% capacity.

 

It's very easy to increase one's battery bank size, but not so easy to support larger battery banks with adequate charging equipment/regimes. If what you said were true we'd all have huge battery banks.

Edited January 29, 2017 by blackrose

[mross]

@blackrose

 

I said, "if you have a generator or alternator big enough" and you came back, "Given the same size alternator or generator/battery charger.............................."

 

We are at cross purposes!

Edited January 29, 2017 by mross

[Robbo]

Well, that depends on how they've been installed, not the boat. My point was that it's perfectly possible to be electrically self-sufficient with 400a/h battery bank - many people do it.

400ah on leisure batteries is not the same as 400ah on decent 2v tubular batteries. Most boats can't accommodate these due to the height. However the OP is in the position where he can design for the height of these type of batteries and the width of other types even if decides they are not for him.

[Robbo]

It's very easy to increase one's battery bank size, but not so easy to support larger battery banks with adequate charging equipment/regimes. If what you said were true we'd all have huge battery banks.

The charging will be the same time, and potentially less with a larger bank as even with the same charging equipment optimised for a small bank you still only be adding what you took out and you'll have longer in between charge times which means you have more chance of getting a good day for solar. It's also more efficient and less wear to run a generator for longer periods than multiple smaller times, as well as taking advantage of the extra power to do the washing, etc.

 

To be at its best efficiency, if you have limited generator choices (especially when using built in diesel which start at around 4kw) then sizing the charger and then batteries to take the amps of the charger to get the generator to work at around 75% of its max load.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Robbo

[magictime]

Starting to settle along the lines of a 3.5VA inverter a nice cocooned genny and a bank of 6 200Ah batteries (type yet to be decided), with 800-1000W solar, depending what will fit.

 

Now I'm confused... if you've got your estimated power requirements down to 300Ah a day, isn't a 1200Ah battery bank overkill? I mean, surely the starting point is to have 600Ah capacity and aim to put back most of what you take out every day.

 

800-1000W solar sounds about right, though: I believe that as a rule of thumb, a solar panel should generate the equivalent of 4-5 hours' full power at its rated output in summer - so about the required 3.6kWh at 12V for 800W of panels - and about 1 hour's worth in winter.

 

Edited to add that in terms of the narrowbeam vs widebeam issue, 3-4 large solar panels should fit easily enough on a narrowboat's roof.

Edited January 29, 2017 by magictime

[Robbo]

Now I'm confused... if you've got your estimated power requirements down to 300Ah a day, isn't a 1200Ah battery bank overkill? I mean, surely the starting point is to have 600Ah capacity and aim to put back most of what you take out every day.

 

800-1000W solar sounds about right, though: I believe that as a rule of thumb, a solar panel should generate the equivalent of 4-5 hours' full power at its rated output in summer - so about the required 3.6kWh at 12V for 800W of panels - and about 1 hour's worth in winter.

 

Edited to add that in terms of the narrowbeam vs widebeam issue, 3-4 large solar panels should fit easily enough on a narrowboat's roof.

I think we are still talking ah's at 24v , so it's 600ah at 12v a day, if so 800-1000watt of solar may be half what sounds about right.

 

A 1200ah bank to me doesn't sound like over kill for using 300ah a day, as it's really only two days worth. Although with lithium or 2v tubular batteries you can go down to 20 - 30% SoC so the usable size of the bank is potentially bigger anyhow.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Robbo