Generator - petrol / lpg / diesel?

[Johny London]

I'm in the market for a generator. Some may remember I'm the proud owner of a nearly new / nearly knackered set of (4x110ah) batteries. Before I replace the batteries I feel that having a 240v feed to the Victron Inverter charger would be a good way of looking after them (both as a daily bulk charge and weekly extra absorbtion charge - see I'm learning!).

 

I know that some of you like travel power but to me that is still using the engine, and I think the engine is too expensive to wear out just charging batteries.

 

So, I believe the only affordable option would be a suitcase generator that runs on petrol. But, I'm not that keen on messing about with jerry cans, storing petrol, paying pump prices etc. Then I saw suitcase generators that come ready lpg'd! Bingo I'm thinking.

 

I've only scratched the surface - one company that supplies all the favourite gennies (Honda, Hyundai etc) with the lpg gizmo hooked up already. But a quick google for lpg generators brings up a lot more besides.

 

As far as I can tell, the gas works out cheaper, you don't have to store petrol, and lpg can be picked up off the passing fuel boat or many other convenient places. The large cylinder lasts quite(?) a while.

 

Doubtless there will be plenty of detractors. I'm very interested to hear about affordable diesel generators, or anything else really (but lets leave solar and wind to another thread). I'm wanting to spend up to 1k.

 

I await your thoughts, experiences and musings, gentlemen (and ladies!).

[NB Lola]

For ease of use, I would go for lpg or diesel. I have a petrol Honda eu20i and it's a faff. I could have it lpg'd but I would rather have a low DB diesel generator given I can then use a single fuel source. Since I have a 87 gallon diesel tank I reckon it would work nicely

[Johny London]

Is the faff getting the thing out and setting it up or more with filling with petrol? I'm now finding a few sensibly priced diesel generators but I wonder how noisy they will be in the real world.

 

Could a diesel generator be legally and safely incorporated in to the main engine room? I'd imagine the diesel wouldn't be too much more convenient than petrol if you still have to fill it from jerry cans?

[WotEver]

 

Could a diesel generator be legally and safely incorporated in to the main engine room?

Absolutely. It's the usual method for a diesel. Obviously one designed for that purpose.

[NB Lola]

Is the faff getting the thing out and setting it up or more with filling with petrol? I'm now finding a few sensibly priced diesel generators but I wonder how noisy they will be in the real world.

 

Could a diesel generator be legally and safely incorporated in to the main engine room? I'd imagine the diesel wouldn't be too much more convenient than petrol if you still have to fill it from jerry cans?

Both

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Could a diesel generator be legally and safely incorporated in to the main engine room? I'd imagine the diesel wouldn't be too much more convenient than petrol if you still have to fill it from jerry cans?

 

That's the proper way to do it - BUT NOT with a 'building site' generator - you need a proper water cooled diesel generator.

 

The cost will be between £5,000 and £10,000 (depending on Kw and ease of installation) but its the only way to do it.

[Richard10002]

I'm wanting to spend up to 1k.

 

 

Up to £1k, I dont think you'll get anything that isnt a faff.

 

Fisher Panda is a name that comes to mind, and several thousands of pounds is the figure that comes to mind

[blackrose]

I fully concur with the last two contributors. If anyone knows about a diesel suitcase generator that's as quiet as a Honda suitcase petrol then I'd love to know about it.

 

So if you don't want petrol onboard the choice is either spend several thousand pounds on a proper marine diesel plus installation costs, or convert to gas and be prepared for more difficulty in starting (in my experience) and more frequent servicing because they tend to run hotter on gas (according to Honda).

Edited January 15, 2017 by blackrose

[Martin Megson]

I'm very happy with my Honda petrol. Not a big job to lift it from the locker and fill. Very quiet and efficient

[calon]

Lpg conversion kits for most suitcase Gennys can be purchased I brought mine from a company called sail and trail easy to fit. One of the biggest benefits to lpg is no fuel in the genny so it can be stored safely

[Robbo]

I would look at other options as well as a portable generator depending on the type of person you are and your power needs.

 

From your other posts I'm making assumptions that you will be a fairly high power user that likes your comforts? Other main assumption is that you are off-grid in winter.

 

Cons for me of a portable genny of any fuel type are the pains to setup and fuel every time you need to use it, this will be ideally everyday, every other day is prob the max, every third day and you'll be running batteries down a little too low. The only way to increase these times between charging is too increase your battery capacity, and as you have a 120amp charger increasing the battery capacity will make things a bit more efficient and you'll potentially spend less time charging.

 

So are you the person that would want to setup a genny everyday/otherday?

 

If not then as you have a decent inverter I would look at a marine alternator of around 150amp, these will be around £600. These will charge your batteries up but to get the best out of it you'll need more battery capacity. When using high power AC items you can run the engine to power the inverter directly, if the inverter requires more power the additional will come from the batteries, if it requires less then the additional will go to the batteries.

 

The other question is how do you get hot water? If via a calorfier and using the engine to heat, then the alternator makes more sense.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Security is a problem with generators I used to secure mine with a long chain and good padlock. The scrotes will try to walk of with it. You must run it on the towpath and fulel up off the boat.

[Neil Walker]

LPG kipor from sail and trail for me too. Came with the regulator on the body of gen but moved it to the bottle and has quick release at gen end so loads less grief to set up. Must get round to working out how many hours out of 13kg gas but defenatly cheaper than petrol.

[Jess--]

Is the faff getting the thing out and setting it up or more with filling with petrol? I'm now finding a few sensibly priced diesel generators but I wonder how noisy they will be in the real world.

 

Could a diesel generator be legally and safely incorporated in to the main engine room? I'd imagine the diesel wouldn't be too much more convenient than petrol if you still have to fill it from jerry cans?

The simple answer is very noisy, think of one of the diesel cement mixers running at 3 times their normal speed.

 

We were running a small ride on a market and there was meant to be power in place but when we arrived there was none, so we ran from a single cylinder, open frame 5kw diesel generator.

 

48 hours later they had laid in the power cable we needed just so they could avoid the noise from the generator.

[chubby]

Personally, i cannot bear generators . To me they are the opposite of what i want from my boat ( my home ) . Noisy , expensive & there are issues with storage of generator and petrol . If you use gas then it must be fairly laborious setting up i imagine. All that said , if i ever did buy one i d only buy a Honda as they do appear the quietest by some margin whenever i see otjer boaters using one .

Im a frugal user of power - no gadgets or fancy kitchen stuff on my boat . Nice & simple & so i m able to get by on just solar (400w laid flat )even thru most of the winter .

Perhaps if the OP thinks about installing solar then it could provide for his needs , dependant on what those needs are , thru late spring summer & autumn ..... maybe . Like i say , i can do this but only cos i live aboard simply ( how i like it !) . This then means providing for the darker months thru winter & I personally think that the boats engine is the way to go . If the recharging system can be optimised via alternative alternators , adjustments to battery capacity etc etc then it negates the need to own , set up , run , fuel & maintain a generator . It will also provide hot water at the same time . There will be increased maintenence costs but hey ho - there will be with whatever option is chosen . Diesel is safer , easier to store & cheaper .

I d look into upgrading somehow the electrics , batts & alternator AND put together a plan for installing solar by early spring . Cheap ? No ! but i don t think there is a cheap option unless instead one looks at thier lowering thier power consumption ?

just my tuppence worth

cheers

[mrsmelly]

The simple answer is very noisy, think of one of the diesel cement mixers running at 3 times their normal speed.

 

We were running a small ride on a market and there was meant to be power in place but when we arrived there was none, so we ran from a single cylinder, open frame 5kw diesel generator.

 

48 hours later they had laid in the power cable we needed just so they could avoid the noise from the generator.

 

Luv it

[Arthur Brown]

A friend has a 6KVA diesel Honda genset. picked up second hand for less than £1000, it purrs gently in the background.

 

BSS regs make petrol hard to use compliantly, so it's hard to come by on the cut (Easier on the Thames).

[OldGoat]

If the OP needs most of the comforts of modern urban life (no criticism there) then a suitcase generator will NOT power a reasonably sized battery charger.

Been the done it. It ran all day, the charger ran at reduce output - so the batteries were hardly charged. I then bought a 2.8Kw larger frame set. It worked better.

I've seen similar machines on a frame hanging over the rear deck. You can buy similar diesel fueled sets:-

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bulldog-BDG3500E-Electric-start-Diesel-generator-With-next-day-delivery/302001175414?_trksid=p2045573.c100506.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555014%26algo%3DPL.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38661%26meid%3Db4f5b6a1d7034ca7931d830197460023%26pid%3D100506%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26

 

or better but more expensive:-

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-2KVA-Hyundai-DHY8000SELR-Long-Run-Diesel-Generator-/132063680903?hash=item1ebf9bd987:g:7t4AAOSwopRYePau

 

IM(H)O and IME - you don't knacker your engine by running it to charge your batteries PROVIDED that:-

You have a reasonably sized second alternator - say 100 or 150 amps with (ideally) an alternator controller / a battery management system

AND

you run the engine above tickover speeds - say 1100 rpm.

 

Been there, doing it.

[NB Lola]

While on the cut we have three approved containers full and we replace whenever needed and a garage is within walking and carrying distance, so far , so good. I should add we use engine to charge and the genny to run our telly and such like if battery power needs help. If we are out and we are not disturbing anyone, we will run until 8pm. If it's truly remote and no other boaters around or passing,, I have to be honest in running it longer.

Edited January 15, 2017 by NB Lola

[blackrose]

Personally, i cannot bear generators . To me they are the opposite of what i want from my boat ( my home ) . Noisy , expensive & there are issues with storage of generator and petrol . If you use gas then it must be fairly laborious setting up i imagine. All that said , if i ever did buy one i d only buy a Honda as they do appear the quietest by some margin whenever i see otjer boaters using one .

Im a frugal user of power - no gadgets or fancy kitchen stuff on my boat . Nice & simple & so i m able to get by on just solar (400w laid flat )even thru most of the winter .

Perhaps if the OP thinks about installing solar then it could provide for his needs , dependant on what those needs are , thru late spring summer & autumn ..... maybe . Like i say , i can do this but only cos i live aboard simply ( how i like it !) . This then means providing for the darker months thru winter & I personally think that the boats engine is the way to go . If the recharging system can be optimised via alternative alternators , adjustments to battery capacity etc etc then it negates the need to own , set up , run , fuel & maintain a generator . It will also provide hot water at the same time . There will be increased maintenence costs but hey ho - there will be with whatever option is chosen . Diesel is safer , easier to store & cheaper .

I d look into upgrading somehow the electrics , batts & alternator AND put together a plan for installing solar by early spring . Cheap ? No ! but i don t think there is a cheap option unless instead one looks at thier lowering thier power consumption ?

just my tuppence worth

cheers

Some of that doesn't make sense to me. My Honda generator is quieter than my Isuzu boat engine and it was much cheaper too!

[Robbo]

IM(H)O and IME - you don't knacker your engine by running it to charge your batteries PROVIDED that:-

You have a reasonably sized second alternator - say 100 or 150 amps with (ideally) an alternator controller / a battery management system

AND

you run the engine above tickover speeds - say 1100 rpm.

You don't need a separate alternator controller or battery management system. You just need a alternator that's not 15 years old where an external alternator would have helped and one that is designed to do the job. So no cheaping out on a standard car alternator as these are not designed to run at full power for long periods of time. You need a Marine Alternator, these are designed for running for long periods.

[ditchcrawler]

While on the cut we have three approved containers full and we replace whenever needed and a garage is within walking and carrying distance, so far , so good. I should add we use engine to charge and the genny to run our telly and such like if battery power needs help. If we are out and we are not disturbing anyone, we will run until 8pm. If it's truly remote and no other boaters around or passing,, I have to be honest in running it longer.

And where does your genny live when not in use

[blackrose]

If the OP needs most of the comforts of modern urban life (no criticism there) then a suitcase generator will NOT power a reasonably sized battery charger.

 

Depends what you mean by reasonably sized battery charger I suppose? A Honda EU20 rated at 1600w should be able to run up to a 90amp charger (or larger charger with reduced output). I run a 70 amp charger from a generator and can top up my batteries in a few hours, but my bank isn't massive and I rarely let them go down to 50%.

[NB Lola]

The genny lives outside in a locked Steel case, suitably vented which cost more than I care to admit after swmbo insisted. Before that I freely admit to it living in the stern room which houses my work area, covered part of engine, calorifier and charger/inverter

[MtB]

Depends what you mean by reasonably sized battery charger I suppose? A Honda EU20 rated at 1600w should be able to run up to a 90amp charger (or larger charger with reduced output). I run a 70 amp charger from a generator and can top up my batteries in a few hours, but my bank isn't massive and I rarely let them go down to 50%.

 

 

That is the easy bit of course.

 

How long does it take you to re-charge your batteries to 100%,? And how are you measuring 100%?

 

In my experience it takes around eight hours to get from 60% to 100% as measured by a stable tail current. Totally impractical to do daily and hardly even weekly, but essential if one is not to wreck the batteries in a month or three.

 

And then there is equalising, which needs to be done immediately after getting the batteries to fully charged, and takes a further three hours. That's 11 hours of genny time in one day. (And as an aside, I've yet to see an off the shelf engine alternator - marine or not - capable of running an equalisation cycle without some custom modifications)

 

Rather than look after batteries correctly in the three winter months when solar doesn't work, I'm arriving at the view that it is better to buy a new set of cheap batteries each Spring which the solar will keep fully charged all summer, then let them get trashed over winter to save all the hours and hours of charging necessary to treat them properly. Then replace them again next Spring.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman