Buying a boat - best and worst brokers

[jickstumps]

Hi all, this is my first post so please be gentle.

 

Me and my girlfriend are about to buy a narrowboat. we know wat we are after but don't know which brokers to trust. Over the past year we have visited many of the well known ones and we sort of understand how it all works. But we have heard about horror stories!

 

Can anybody give us advice on who is the least likely to take us for a ride and who we need to avoid. We know we want to go with a broker as we don't want all the admin and potential risk, but we don't know who to trust.

 

 

I might be being a little paranoid, if so then tell me that! Haha.

 

Any other advice about brokers would be extremely helpful.

 

 

Thanks everyone.

Jamie

[MartinC]

We used ABNB http://www.abnb.co.uk to sell our previous boat and bought our present one from them. First class service including the paper work needed to show ownership should we sell our present boat

[Victor Vectis]

Another vote for ABNB.

 

(Only bought the one boat once though, FWIW)

[mrsmelly]

The thing to remember is that brokers are only brokers for one reason and that is to make money. They seldom own any of the boats on their brokerage al,though such as Whilton own plenty. Think of them as secondhand car dealers in that of course every boat on their books is great but one you may want to part ex will be crap. Like car dealers some are much more honest than others as with all people in life. Rugby boats used to be the best when Dominic owned it but he has sold up and gone and I have not yet met the new owner though am told he is a good sort.

You realy are at their mercy and of course their cop out will be the small print in the survey they will advise you to have. They also do not have a magic wand and cannot always verify who truly owns any particular boat as many ( mine included ) are bought without survey and with cash each time.

Do not discount such as appollo duck and private sales after all if you are having a survey you can also negotiate with the organ grinder so to speak and not through his monkey and straight dealing with the owner to me is always the better option and could well save you a very considerable sum of beer tokens.

[Alan de Enfield]

. We know we want to go with a broker as we don't want all the admin and potential risk,

 

 

 

What 'admin' do you think there is with a boat ?

 

There is no 'logbook', or registration documents to look at or 'send off'.

 

You just roll up with pound-notes in a carrier bag, (£30k - £40k, or £50k of cash is a powerful negotiating tool) pay the owner and cruise off into the sunset.

Going thru a broker just adds another layer of 'complexity' that is not needed.

 

The broker will take his 5% (10% ?) of the sale value so you may as well deal with the seller directly, offer him 10% less, he will get the 'same' price and you save the 10%.

 

Many (most ?) boats are listed on apolloduck anyway.

[MtB]

. We know we want to go with a broker as we don't want all the admin and potential risk, but we don't know who to trust.

 

 

 

Eh?

 

What makes you think buying from a broker reduces risk? I'd say it introduces a whole additional layer of risk.

[MtB]

What if you pay a deposit and the broker goes bust for example?

 

What if the broker has not checked ownership of the boat he is selling you?

 

(To give two examples of what can go wrong,.)

[Bee]

Brokers don't really know everything about each and every boat just as car dealers don't know much about the cars they sell. Car dealers get a lot of their stock from auctions just like you or I can. They take a risk just like us. Boat brokers sell the boat that someone turns up with and again, they hope its ok. Personally I would rather buy privately and talk to the seller but unless you know a bit about boats you run the risk of being told a complete load of b*******. Frankly quite a lot of sellers know naff all about boats either. Its quite possible that a rubbish broker could sell you a good boat, its also possible to buy a boat with unknown faults from a decent broker. This is why you need a surveyor acting for YOU and not some bloke suggested from the brokerage. Ideally you need a friend who genuinely knows a bit about boats who can filter out some of the not so good and give you a short list to make a choice from - then engage a surveyor. Good luck.

[MtB]

Good post from Bee.

 

To expand, when you find the right boat for you, you're gonna have to buy it from whoever is selling it, 'Good' broker, 'bad' broker or private seller. You can't say to the bad broker "I want this boat but I want to buy it from someone else"!

 

Secondly, as Bee says, brokers just take instructions from a boat owner to 'find a buyer'. They introduce you to the seller and you buy from the seller, even if you pay your money to the broker. Another risk exists here. What if the broker steals your £50k and emigrates to Barbados with it? You won't own the boat AND your £50k will have vanished...

 

Oh and another point. Brokers generally know the market well, so their boats are always priced near the top of what the market will bear. So you'll NEVER find a bargain from a broker. Bargains always come from private sellers who just want to 'get rid' or don't know the value of boats...

Edited December 28, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[cuthound]

I found Great Hayward Boat Sales (GHBS) and ABNB to be professional and easy to deal with.

 

Eventually bought from GHBS but only coz they had the boat we wanted the most.

[Athy]

Another vote for ABNB.

 

(Only bought the one boat once though, FWIW)

And another (sold our last boat quickly through them).

Rugby boats used to be the best when Dominic owned it but he has sold up and gone

Really? I didn't know that. When did this happen.

[Catnip King]

Another vote for great hayward boat sales. My current boat is from them and very very happy. !

[Rudolph Hart]

 

 

 

Mike the Boilerman, on 28 Dec 2016 - 4:56 PM, said:

 

What if the broker steals your £50k and emigrates to Barbados with it? You won't own the boat AND your £50k will have vanished...

 

 

 

A reputable broker will operate a Clients Trust Account - http://greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/page/displaygroup/54/clients-trust-account- just like your solicitor uses when you buy a house

[Ray T]

And another (sold our last boat quickly through them).

Really? I didn't know that. When did this happen.

 

Sometime in either October or November I think. It hasn't been highly publicised. I have no idea who has taken over.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Ray T

[mrsmelly]

And another (sold our last boat quickly through them).

Really? I didn't know that. When did this happen.

 

Dom sold up in November. My friend Paul is working with the new owner and hoping for a smooth transition. The new guy is a boter and has some liveaboard experience here and in France so hopefuly will be as good a sDom.

[alan_fincher]

Really? I didn't know that. When did this happen.

 

Announced publicly as a done deal on October 28th

[jickstumps]

Hey guys, read all your posts. Really helpful, thanks ever so much for getting back so quickly.

This is all going to help me so much in the next couple of weeks. I have been checking apolloduck every day for the past six month so I'm definitely not discounting it. I just worry about handing over 50k to a private seller. But as a lot of you pointed out there could actually be less risk doing it this way.

 

Also, abnb is one of the brokers we have visited and they were fantastic on our trips out. Those guys and trine, who works at braunston, have been really helpful.

 

 

Really helpful, thanks again.

[mrsmelly]

Hey guys, read all your posts. Really helpful, thanks ever so much for getting back so quickly.

This is all going to help me so much in the next couple of weeks. I have been checking apolloduck every day for the past six month so I'm definitely not discounting it. I just worry about handing over 50k to a private seller. But as a lot of you pointed out there could actually be less risk doing it this way.

 

Also, abnb is one of the brokers we have visited and they were fantastic on our trips out. Those guys and trine, who works at braunston, have been really helpful.

 

 

Really helpful, thanks again.

 

Just as a little more help. My present boat ( number 8 ) I bought last year, it was for sale with a crap broker ( some think a good broker ) I paid ten grand less than the advertised asking price simply because of my straight John Bull approach to the sale. From first setting eyes on it to paying for it in twenty minutes. Its a great boat. Just saying so you know how brokers often price way higher than you need to pay.

[Richard10002]

 

Oh and another point. Brokers generally know the market well, so their boats are always priced near the top of what the market will bear. So you'll NEVER find a bargain from a broker. Bargains always come from private sellers who just want to 'get rid' or don't know the value of boats...

 

Except that bargains sometimes come via brokers

 

The broker selling the boat we bought in 2011 said it was originally for sale at £34k, then it was reduced a few times, but hadn't sold. He was genuinely annoyed that the owner had told him to reduce it to £18k, because it meant his fee would be reduced massively - yet there I was, 3 days after the reduction, offering the asking price, and therefore putting a fee in his pocket where there had been none.

 

There was no doubt that the broker had no idea of the value of this boat, (that the owner wanted to get rid of) - it was never £30k or more, during the period he had it for sale. Pretty sure he went out of business a year or so later.

 

The owner had a better idea of actual value, in that it would definitely sell quickly at £18k. Whether he knew that, with more time, he might have got another £5k or so, we will never know. Our surveyor said he would buy it if we didnt... and happily valued it at £26k on the survey.

[David Schweizer]

I can recommend Braunston Marina, who sold our boat in less than two weeks and were thoroughly professional throughout the entire process, keeping us fully informed at all stages of the sale. The (often highly recommended on this forum) broker we previously used was hopeless.

Edited December 28, 2016 by David Schweizer

[Richard10002]

I can recommend Braunston Marina, who sold our boat in less than two weeks and were thoroughly professional throughout the entire process, keeping us fully informed at all stages of the sale. The (often highly recommended on this forum) broker we previously used was hopeless.

 

Did your price change between starting with the first broker, and selling with the second broker? (I genuinely cant remember).

[MartinC]

What if you pay a deposit and the broker goes bust for example?

 

What if the broker has not checked ownership of the boat he is selling you?

 

(To give two examples of what can go wrong,.)

 

For answers see http://www.abya.co.uk/about-abya.aspx

[David Mack]

 

For answers see http://www.abya.co.uk/about-abya.aspx

How many canal based brokers are ABYA members? Edited December 29, 2016 by David Mack

[David Schweizer]

 

Did your price change between starting with the first broker, and selling with the second broker? (I genuinely cant remember).

 

Initially the original broker suggested what I thought was an extreemly optimistic price, after 6 weeks of no interest I insisted that the price was reduced to what I thought was a more realistic one, but after a further six months there were only a handful of viewers. When we moved the boat to Braunston Marina we agreed a price which was only 1k below the lowered price at the previous broker, it sold within two weeks for a figure very close to the new brokers advertised price, and above the price for which it had briefly been privately advertised on Apollo Duck.

Edited December 29, 2016 by David Schweizer

[tonyt40]

I was looking for a boat a few years ago. Found boat, survey booked, ready to pay the deposit and sign the British Marine Federation standard contract. I asked the broker if the seller had signed. "Not yet but I will make sure he does" was the reply. Brakes firmly on. I receive a call the next day to say seller thought it too onerous and refused to sign. My only bit of protection buying through the broker gone. The broker suggested we continue without the contract. Not likely I thought. The contract protected my deposit if something nasty appeared at the survey. Was the seller hiding something? Survey cancelled and walked away.

 

I end up buying a different boat at twice the price from a bloke at the side of the canal in cash two years later. All the paperwork was present with receipts from when it was originally built including a photographic history of the build and video of the launch. It just felt right.