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Dutch Barge on Canal Du Midi


Ratty & Moley

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The web site says that Le Roi Soleil is "resembling a sleek yacht of the 1930s", not that she is really a 1930s build, hence my comment.

Sorry Athy,thinking about a different boat.Won't put the name up as the op hasn't mentioned it.Remember seeing the Roi Soleil going past with some wine sipping ladies sitting in the spa,it looks nice.

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Sorry Athy,thinking about a different boat.Won't put the name up as the op hasn't mentioned it.Remember seeing the Roi Soleil going past with some wine sipping ladies sitting in the spa,it looks nice.

My apologies for any confusion.

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The web site is shy about giving many details of the boat's history, but I get the impression that she's a fairly new build - 1990s perhaps.

Peter and I may have confused, it's not the Roi Soleil for sale, Ron T had if pegged. I didn't know whether it was politic to name this one. It's a modern build on an old hull.

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Peter and I may have confused, it's not the Roi Soleil for sale, Ron T had if pegged. I didn't know whether it was politic to name this one. It's a modern build on an old hull.

 

Hello hounddog, no I didn't get confused, I only came up with the "Roi Soleil", because you'd said in an arlier posting #10 "As to the OP Dutch hotel boats are pretty rare as they are not particularly space efficient"

 

Another highly successful Dutch barge on the Midi is "Anjodi" of which I've known the owner (who ownes several hotel-barges) since 35 years.

 

That's why I wrote that you may have had a particular kind of Dutch barge in mind that wasn't suitable.

 

If a barge is owner-operated, which many of the smaller ones are, there will be less overhead, and it will be easier to make a living.

 

I've owned and operated a hotel-barge myself (in the early 80's), and spend 1 year on the Midi with her, I was far from successful as at the time there was no internet, and publicity was very expensive, I went to the U.S. twice to visit travel agents and tourist offices.

 

Organising their holidays takes often a bit longer for U.S.citicens, as they normally don't come over for just 1 week on a hotel-barge, they often do a tour d'Europe, and if you're a new business they don't trust it.

 

Even less if you offer cheaper holidays than all the others, as they think too much in value for money terms, not knowing that as an owner-operator you don't need as much, because you don't have the same amount of expenses as a barge that's owned by a big(ger) business employing crew, and having to pay people in their office etc.

 

The people I sold the barge to, had the first two years after having bought the barge clients that had come over after having seen the publicities that I'd left allover the U.S. as they could see on the photos that the barges accomodation was at least as good as on the more expensive ones, and they thought that even if they would go out and eat in local restaurants, they would have a bargain.

 

Times have changed, and I wouldn't want to be in that sort of business anymore, as in reality you become a well paid (if you're successful) slave for sometimes very demanding clients.

 

Often if they're nice people it's more like being on a cruise with friends, but it can be, and sometimes is, much different.

 

Peter.

 

p.s. apart from a hotel- and a passenger barge (day trip restaurant) that I've owned and operated during my working life, I've been involved with commercial barges from my early years until a heart problem in 2009, so I'm (a bit) familiar with the subject.

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I have no knowledge of the OP's experience - boating or otherwise - but a leap from a narrowboat in the UK to running a hotelboat business in a foreign country is not something to undertake lightly. And France IS a foreign country - the people look much the same but their language (obviously), their laws, their ways of going on, all are often surprisingly different. If the OP and her partner do go ahead they couldn't really be in a position to take paying guests for at least the first year, and would need to factor that in. The Midi is rather more similar to UK canals than many other French waterways, but even there you have to be more self-sufficient - there are not boatyards catering to your every whim within spitting distance at all times as in the UK.

 

This craft has apparently not operated as a hotelboat recently, so they will have to create their own goodwill from scratch much as Peter just described. They will also have to become familiar with whatever route they propose to cruise, both in the detail of how physically boating in France differs from boating in the UK and in all the detail of the hinterland they will need to be familiar with once they have paying guests on board.

 

It can be done - they would just need to cruise the barge extensively themselves for perhaps a year to find its strengths and weaknesses, plus the strengths and weaknesses of themselves as a team. What they need to bear in mind is that they will not be on holiday - that is what the paying guests do. They will be the ones to make the beds, get provisions, take care of all the cock-ups and mini disasters, and keep smiling.

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Hello hounddog, no I didn't get confused, I only came up with the "Roi Soleil", because you'd said in an arlier posting #10 "As to the OP Dutch hotel boats are pretty rare as they are not particularly space efficient"

I didn't think you were confused, I thought we may have confused Athy with talk of the Roi du Soleil.

 

It seems I'm wrong on one point at least, the boat in question is Dutch, a Hassellaak and the space has been converted in a fairly space efficient way.

 

As Tam says, the business plan will make interesting reading.

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I didn't think you were confused, I thought we may have confused Athy with talk of the Roi du Soleil.

 

It seems I'm wrong on one point at least, the boat in question is Dutch, a Hassellaak and the space has been converted in a fairly space efficient way.

 

As Tam says, the business plan will make interesting reading.

 

An "Hasselteraak" is one of the many Dutch barge types, they look a lot like a "Hagenaar" and they exist in many different sizes, so some may be too small and others may be suitable, which the one of your friends sounds to be.

 

Peter.

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Thank to everyone who has replied and offered their views. Much appreciated and all goes into the 'melting pot'. I absolutely agree that taking a year to get to know the boat and the French river / canal system is the way to go. I shall be making arrangements to see the boat very soon and hopefully meet with the owner whilst he's in the UK.

Can anyone suggest what the costs might be for hauling out/in and blacking/anodes . Also where the nearest shipyard or Marina that is able to offer that service for a 24m barge near Vias ? Thanks

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As Martin suggested at post 2 you should really be asking that sort of question on the DBA forum. There are a lot of DBA members with barges on the Midi or who have cruised there in the past and can give you current information.

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I can believe that a group of only four to six may be socially attractive for passengers; but I wonder if it is equally attractive commercially for the operators.

 

I just had another read of this thread, and thought that it's maybe a good idea to study the prices that these barges charge their passengers, and then you can make up your mind if it's more attractive commercially to teach French, or run a hotel-barge with only 4 to 6 passengers.

In the list you'll see one barge named "Alouette" of which I've followed her first conversion halfway the 80's for 6 guests, and now being refitted for only 4 px, only because there was enough demand for it and a niche for them they did this refitt.

 

http://www.french-waterways.com/hotel-barge-cruises/hotel-barges/

 

Peter.

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The web site says that Le Roi Soleil is "resembling a sleek yacht of the 1930s", not that she is really a 1930s build, hence my comment.

 

Of course I can't blame you for not knowing much about Dutch barges, as to start with, you're not Dutch, and also you didn't spend most of your working life on them (like I did) .

You did read their web site where it says that "Roi Soleil" is resembling a sleek yacht of the 1930's, and not that she's really 1930's build, maybe that is because potential clients are more interested in knowing in what sort of luxuriously fitted out boat they will be travelling, and 1930's style is highly attractive, specially for Americans.

 

You are right in saying that's she's not really a 1930 build, and even say in your posting #23 The web site is shy about giving many details of the boat's history,

but I get the impression that she's a fairly new build - 1990s perhaps.

 

Perhaps you got the wrong impression, for your information the barge was built in 1927.

 

Peter.

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Of course I can't blame you for not knowing much about Dutch barges, as to start with, you're not Dutch, and also you didn't spend most of your working life on them (like I did) .

You did read their web site where it says that "Roi Soleil" is resembling a sleek yacht of the 1930's, and not that she's really 1930's build, maybe that is because potential clients are more interested in knowing in what sort of luxuriously fitted out boat they will be travelling, and 1930's style is highly attractive, specially for Americans.

 

You are right in saying that's she's not really a 1930 build, and even say in your posting #23 The web site is shy about giving many details of the boat's history,

but I get the impression that she's a fairly new build - 1990s perhaps.

 

Perhaps you got the wrong impression, for your information the barge was built in 1927.

 

Peter.

THank you! I wonder why the web site didn't say so.

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In the list you'll see one barge named "Alouette" of which I've followed her first conversion halfway the 80's for 6 guests, and now being refitted for only 4 px, only because there was enough demand for it and a niche for them they did this refitt.

 

We have friends who likewise run a cruise ship for 6 people. But to be fair to Athy both Alouette and our friends' 30m barge are fitted out in a luxurious manner; they're not fairly basic 24m vessels valued for sale at £95K which could never charge anything remotely like that.

Edited by Tam & Di
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That's the key and that's why this should have a critically-read business plan. I don't know whether the stationement at Vias is a permenant one but that's not top dollar either.

 

Your earlier advice, take a year aboard and check out the situation, are wise words.

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We have friends who likewise run a cruise ship for 6 people. But to be fair to Athy both Alouette and our friends' 30m barge are fitted out in a luxurious manner; they're not fairly basic 24m vessels valued for sale at £95K which could never charge anything remotely like that.

 

Hi Tam, I hope you don't see my writings as an attack to Athy, as my only intention was trying to make clear that there was plenty of business (for the Lucky ones) that are taking only 4 to 6 px.

 

If you read Athy's post #17 you'll see that it was about the barges taking only 4 to 6 px, and not about the barge for sale.

 

Peter.

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That's the key and that's why this should have a critically-read business plan. I don't know whether the stationement at Vias is a permenant one but that's not top dollar either.

 

Your earlier advice, take a year aboard and check out the situation, are wise words.

 

I agree that Tam's advise is a very good one, and not doing that is a mistake that some "dreaming would be operators" have forced to sell, because they thought that their newly bought hotelbarge would fill up just like that, while in reality it may take several years.

 

Only if one can buy a successfully operating barge, of which the owners want to sell while still in operation, and the buyers buy the existing bookings with it, so they can start making it work from day 1, it's a completely different deal, but in a case like that, the price will surely be much higher.

 

In the year they don't work yet, they should be busy with a publicity campain, and the creation of a good website, on which is marked "no vacanties left for this season", that way it looks to potential clients that it's a succesful barge.

 

Peter.

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.

 

In the year they don't work yet, they should be busy with a publicity campain, and the creation of a good website, on which is marked "no vacanties left for this season", that way it looks to potential clients that it's a succesful barge.

 

Peter.

That's a VERY clever idea - will encourage people to book quickly before it's too late.

Referring to your previous post, no, I did not see any attack on me.

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A good boatyard is 8klm from Vias,"Chantier Alemand",super efficient and not thieves!Had our boat lifted out there and she was 48tons.Just a pleasant run down the Herault and on the left before you go out into the Meditteranean.Coming back into the round lock at Agde you need to be a bit careful,its a bit shallow on the far side from the gate but the eclusiers are pretty good as long as you give them some notice.


P.S re boatyard,I think the liftout limit may be 50tons at Agde,there is a drydock at Toulouse!

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A good boatyard is 8klm from Vias,"Chantier Alemand",super efficient and not thieves!Had our boat lifted out there and she was 48tons.Just a pleasant run down the Herault and on the left before you go out into the Meditteranean.Coming back into the round lock at Agde you need to be a bit careful,its a bit shallow on the far side from the gate but the eclusiers are pretty good as long as you give them some notice.

P.S re boatyard,I think the liftout limit may be 50tons at Agde,there is a drydock at Toulouse!

Chantier Allemand is a well know and reliable yard

 

The drydock at Toulouse is in reality a selection of 3 drydocks of which one is a covered one, there's another drydock close to Toulouse, at Port Sud-Port d’escale technique de Ramonville.

 

Peter.

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I worked on a hotel barge in the summer of 2015. It was definitely at the bottom end of the market at £850 per week, all inclusive including transfers. The boat took up to 8 guests in very cramped accommodation. The operation was basically a hobby and certainly wouldn't generate anything like a decent profit, if any. One problem was that the costs of transferring more than 4 passengers from Paris wiped out any profit from the extra numbers. Larger parties made a lot more work without generating any return and the need to accommodate 8 guests made it intolerably crowded. My advice, with deep reservations, would be to offer a modified 'holiday share' with guests responsible for their own transport and participating in the navigation, cooking etc. That way you would avoid the need to hire staff or run a large vehicle. This model would not appeal to the elderly, rich American market but you might find customers in the UK canal community who want to try continental cruising at a reasonable expense. The question of licensing, insurance etc would be a very grey area and need approaching with caution. By the way I was working 14 to 15 hours a day with half a day off a week, at best. It's not for the faint hearted.

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Working 14 to 15 hours per day, may be OK for the owner(s) of the barge, as it has been their choice, but having their crew work that amount of hours, and quite often offer them a not very comfortable accomodation, as the best accomodation is for their guest that are paying.

 

Being crew on a low-budget barge like the one you worked on is more like a form of "volontary slavery".

 

Peter.

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My advice, with deep reservations, would be to offer a modified 'holiday share' with guests responsible for their own transport and participating in the navigation, cooking etc.

This immediately presents a stumbling block. Many boatyards are situated considerable distances from anywhere which has decent transport. Thousands of miles of rural railways have closed down in France, leaving large parts of the countryside isolated from the railway network. Mrs. Athy and I had to abandon our plan to revisit the Canal du Nivernais last year because to get to Locaboat's base from the nearest airport (Lyon, I think) we would have had to go up to Paris and then back down. It just wasn't worth the time, effort and money involved.

 

Ah, but, if your passengers don't mind driving in a strange country on the wrong side of the road, they can surely hire a car? Hmm, who would want to pay for car hire when the car is going to be standing unused at a boatyard for a week or a fortnight? No one in their right mind, I would suggest.

 

So, providing transport for your passengers is essential, and if you don't then many of those hoped-for passengers simply will not materialise, and neither will your revenue.

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All very useful and interesting perspectives. Thank you everyone who has responded. I'm tempted to,say that we may park the hotel part of the idea and look for a smaller boat with less regulation hassle and just keep it for personal use with friends in the summer. I had got really excited about the lifestyle change and potential for the boat to earn its keep in the summer months. After listening to what everyone has had to say I'm not sure how to overcome the logistics of transporting clients to the boat without further capital,investment for a large vehicle, plus all the licensing regs for. 24meter boat . We are still mulling it over but do so appreciate hearing from those who have been there and done it !

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If the OP planned to operate in the vicinity of Vias they'd have Montpellier as their nearest airport - only 64km according to my caculations. I guess the other outfit was aimed at Americans who arrive at Charles de Gaulle near Paris. It does sound extreme to have set a price to include transfer over such a distance but perhaps that was determined by the booking agent.

 

US booking agents are extremely powerful. The bulk of passengers on hotel boats are Americans, and these people do not want the risk and hassle of booking directly - only through an agent. So if you offend an agent you lose your business.

 

The small operators worrking 'on the black' advertise on the internet and will generally get 4-6 people who know each other booking as a group. If the owner only pays for a pleasure boat licence and does not carry insurance for passengers his overheads will be much less. However the operation is always at risk, and as I commented previously the French do have this thing where to denounce such illegal operations is actively encouraged.

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This immediately presents a stumbling block. Many boatyards are situated considerable distances from anywhere which has decent transport. Thousands of miles of rural railways have closed down in France, leaving large parts of the countryside isolated from the railway network. Mrs. Athy and I had to abandon our plan to revisit the Canal du Nivernais last year because to get to Locaboat's base from the nearest airport (Lyon, I think) we would have had to go up to Paris and then back down. It just wasn't worth the time, effort and money involved.

 

Ah, but, if your passengers don't mind driving in a strange country on the wrong side of the road, they can surely hire a car? Hmm, who would want to pay for car hire when the car is going to be standing unused at a boatyard for a week or a fortnight? No one in their right mind, I would suggest.

 

So, providing transport for your passengers is essential, and if you don't then many of those hoped-for passengers simply will not materialise, and neither will your revenue.

 

Dear Athy, for someone like you who's fluent in French, it would surely not have been a big problem, there is a good website of the French railways (SNCF) www.voyages-sncf.com that could have given you alternative possibilities, like doing Lyon-Auxerre / Auxerre-Corbigny and from Corbigny gare to the Locaboat place by taxi, not really such a huge problem I reckon.

 

If you rent a car, there's no need to leave the car for a week at the place of departure, you can rent for the day, and pay a supplement for the car to be picked up, or left at a nearby agency of the rental company.

 

Also if it's a low-budget self catering etc barge, it may be useful to keep the car for a week, and use it for shore excursions and shopping trips, if the barge hasn't got a vehicle for excursions, on the canal you won't go far in a day, and you could already take a bicycle at lunch time to pick up the car, and drive it to the barge, or already a bit further up.

 

This is exactly what I am doing, if I need my car to be available to go to my hospital r.d.v.'s , doctors visits and more pleasant private excursions.

 

Because of the much lower price of a week on a low budget barge, that may still be a reasonable solution, it's a matter of calculating all the extra costs that there will be on top of the low budget barge rental.

 

Or the same with the locaboat (or other) self drive Holiday boats.

 

Peter.

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