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Newbie winterisation queery


wobbly ollie

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for winterising I drain the water tank and hot water (just leave taps running until air comes from all of them) and the turn then pump off leaving taps open

then pop the strainer off the shower drain pump (it cracks and leaks if it freezes)

then I flick the battery isolator off, lock the boat and walk away.

heating system contains an anti-freeze mix (should be good to -30)
engine has a slightly stronger mix than the heating system (might do -40)
batteries have solar connected and the only loads left unisolated are an alarm system and the bilge pump (bilge pump runs from the leisure batteries so if it ever has to run long term there is 330AH of batteries and 140w of solar to run it)

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50 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

for winterising I drain the water tank and hot water (just leave taps running until air comes from all of them) and the turn then pump off leaving taps open

then pop the strainer off the shower drain pump (it cracks and leaks if it freezes)

then I flick the battery isolator off, lock the boat and walk away.

heating system contains an anti-freeze mix (should be good to -30)
engine has a slightly stronger mix than the heating system (might do -40)
batteries have solar connected and the only loads left unisolated are an alarm system and the bilge pump (bilge pump runs from the leisure batteries so if it ever has to run long term there is 330AH of batteries and 140w of solar to run it)

So you don't worry about the cal orifier? I do similar to you but also put suitable antifreeze down shower sump and loo bowl.

Ian.

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8 minutes ago, ianali said:

So you don't worry about the cal orifier? I do similar to you but also put suitable antifreeze down shower sump and loo bowl.

Ian.

My loo is a drop through so not a problem, I put a spoon full of salt down the shower and draw it into the pump/pipe

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1 hour ago, philjw said:

The water which you will drain from the calorifier is not the same fluid that circulates around the engine. That runs through a closed coil in the calorifier which is filled with the water that you use for washing etc.  It is the domestic water which is drained. The engine coolant is protected by anti freeze.  You may see advice which suggests that a coil can be damaged mechanically within a drained calorifier having no support from the domestic water subject to more expansion without the cooling that the domestic water provides. I have not found this to be an issue.

Many thanks. I'd mostly be looking to run the engine every couple of weeks for an hour to keep batteries topped up etc, so sounds like it won't be an issue. Having checked the antifreeze levels in the coolant. 

Does draining the radiators and the domestic hot water system in itself drain the hot water tank and domestic water part of the calorifier (for want of better wording)? 

Thanks again. 

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10 minutes ago, ianali said:

So you don't worry about the cal orifier? I do similar to you but also put suitable antifreeze down shower sump and loo bowl.

Ian.

by running the taps until air comes through I have taken a good amount out of the calorifier (probably over half) and replaced it with air, this seems to leave enough for expansion if it starts freezing.

toilet is dump-thru and gets left with no water in the bowl
with the shower the strainer on the pump is the lowest point on the system and seems to be the only bit that holds water (which is why I remove it)

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16 minutes ago, Jonkx said:

Does draining the radiators and the domestic hot water system in itself drain the hot water tank and domestic water part of the calorifier

You really won't need to drain the radiators. These, and the rest of the heating system, should be filled with an antifreeze solution.  There are various testers you can use to check the anti freeze strength. There may be a header tank in your system from where you can take a sample.

I use a spare water pump to drain the calorifier from a drain cock fitted where the cold water enters the calorifier.  If you are fitting a drain cock, make sure that it is on the tank side of the non return valve if you have one fitted.  (Non return valves are fitted to prevent hot water flowing back into the cold water line which can result in hot water coming out of cold taps.)

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33 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

by running the taps until air comes through I have taken a good amount out of the calorifier (probably over half) and replaced it with air, this seems to leave enough for expansion if it starts freezing.

toilet is dump-thru and gets left with no water in the bowl
with the shower the strainer on the pump is the lowest point on the system and seems to be the only bit that holds water (which is why I remove it)

If its a vertical calorifier you wont have taken a cup full out if its plumbed correctly. I wouldn't like to say with a vertical one below the level of the lowest tap, it may push out with air, but I wouldn't see it draining by gravity 

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34 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

by running the taps until air comes through I have taken a good amount out of the calorifier (probably over half) and replaced it with air, this seems to leave enough for expansion if it starts freezing.

toilet is dump-thru and gets left with no water in the bowl
with the shower the strainer on the pump is the lowest point on the system and seems to be the only bit that holds water (which is why I remove it)

I do not drain the calorfier either. Just do as you do but it is a bit of a fingers Crossed job! We do use the boat fairly often over winter so this allows me to refill with water and we can be underway in minutes. 

Ian.

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12 minutes ago, philjw said:

 

I use a spare water pump to drain the calorifier from a drain cock fitted where the cold water enters the calorifier.  If you are fitting a drain cock, make sure that it is on the tank side of the non return valve if you have one fitted.  (Non return valves are fitted to prevent hot water flowing back into the cold water line which can result in hot water coming out of cold taps.)

Mine is T'd into the shower drain, so by opening a valve I can pump it overboard with that. I also fun the pump with the strainer cover off and pump air into the system, that will shift some of the water from the lower points in the pipework.

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On 06/11/2016 at 16:14, plainsman said:

I have put diluted antifreeze down the waste traps (sink shower etc) and run shower emptying pump. Have just thought what should be done about the WC macerator as this will have liquid in it as will the pipe from WC to holding tank? Any views?

In 2010 we had to leave Innisfree on a mooring in Skipton in an emergency so limited winterising. We drained the calorifiers but left toilet bowl an macerator, in our rush I forgot to hang shower head into tray. On return after a sub zero spell the toilet bowl was broken, shower valve split and water pump broken. But funnily enough the macerator was ok. 

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I rely on antifreeze in the central heating circuit.  I don't bother to drain the calorifier. I shut off the main water supply at the tank and drain the taps.  Never had a problem.

One other point.  My 1.8 BMC is raw water cooled so, having  drained the heat exchanger circuit, I loosen the cover on the Jabsco pump because otherwise water collects around the impeller. 

On the Kelvin I used to drain the cylinders.  However, silt which manages to get through the mud box tends to collect right at the bottom of the casing.  Normally this gets flushed through.  If this dries out completely when the water is drained off it can turn into concrete.  Therefore I always poured in some antifreeze to keep the silt moist.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Proper Charlie said:

How do you drain the calorifier though? Mine is a vertical one and difficult to get at.

Providing there is no non return valve in the cold line that feeds the calorifier and the pipe which enters the calorifier is at the bottom, opening up the cold water system anywhere convenient will allow water to flow out of the calorifier once the tank has been drained or isolated.  I do this with a drain cock but you could do it anywhere. On my last boat I extended the cold feed to the calorifier into the engine bilge and this allowed draining of the whole cold water system plus the calorifier, allowing the bilge pump to remove the water that flowed out.

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If you have a shore power supply there is a easy way which, should you so wish, allows you to get on the boat and cruise off within 5 minutes.

Wire up some low wattage electric green-house heaters in the engine room / engine hole. 

Set up one or two electric oil filled radiators in the cabins.

Wire them all via (either) timer plugs (or thermostatically controlled plugs) and Bob's our Uncle.

Last Winter we had 4x greenhouse heaters on for around 8 hours night 4 hours during the day. Our Electric bill was 65p per day

4x 100w heaters for 12 hours per day = approx. 5Kw per day

Unit (Kw) charge of 13p

Cost = £0.65/day

It is not worth faffing about trying to drain pipes, then refill them, then get the air-locks out.

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1 hour ago, Proper Charlie said:

How do you drain the calorifier though? Mine is a vertical one and difficult to get at.

Ours is horizontal under the bed and impossible to get at.  Never drained it, but I do have a couple of oil filled rads on the boat over winter (on shore line).  I blow all the water out of the domestic water pipes, turn off the valve at the tank, and leave the taps open, that's about it.  It survived the harsh 2010/2011 winter.

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you have a shore power supply there is a easy way which, should you so wish, allows you to get on the boat and cruise off within 5 minutes.

Wire up some low wattage electric green-house heaters in the engine room / engine hole. 

Set up one or two electric oil filled radiators in the cabins.

Wire them all via (either) timer plugs (or thermostatically controlled plugs) and Bob's our Uncle.

Last Winter we had 4x greenhouse heaters on for around 8 hours night 4 hours during the day. Our Electric bill was 65p per day

4x 100w heaters for 12 hours per day = approx. 5Kw per day

Unit (Kw) charge of 13p

Cost = £0.65/day

It is not worth faffing about trying to drain pipes, then refill them, then get the air-locks out.

I do something similar.

2 x 700 watt oil filled radiators controlled via a thermostatic plug set to switch on at 5°C and a Meaco dehumidifier running with all vents blocked and windows closed.

Water isolated and taps run until air comes out.  

Engine and central heating have 10 year life antifreeze in them. 

No issues in the 4 years I have had thenough boat,  even when the canal has remained frozen for a few days.

 

See this thread for full details. 

 

 

Edited by cuthound
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On 06/11/2016 at 16:14, plainsman said:

I have put diluted antifreeze down the waste traps (sink shower etc) and run shower emptying pump. 

Is that going to pollute the canal, there must be something less environmentally harmful, even salt

Edited by LadyG
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On 11/6/2016 at 10:26, David Mack said:

 

And by running a 240v appliance on board without connecting its earth to the boat hull, you are breaching BSS requirements. And maybe invalidating your insurance.

Where abouts is this in the BSS

 

Edited by jam
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6 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Eh? wiki: it is a viscous colorless liquid...

read further: what I meant was, blue bad,  PINK good, when it comes to anti freeze, the blue is a killer of pets, and environmentally unfriendly:

"Water-propylene glycol mixtures dyed pink to indicate the mixture is relatively nontoxic are sold under the name of RV or marine antifreeze. "

Edited by LadyG
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