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Clarification of a "rule"?


Jim Riley

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I can't see any evidence of sanitising anything in recent weeks. I've never sat here in an ankle length skirt running searches for naughty words and asking people to be 'nice'. On the other hand what is wrong with wanting to be kind? Not enough kindness in the world. And the amount of dishonest, toxic, energy sapping uneccesary drama, relentless bitching, rumour spreading, singling out and cross examining, bullshit about a bloody Facebook convo that I didn't know existed, bullshit about a supposed blacklist, bullshit about us supposedly being in bed with CRT, all of that, people lying to their mates who then believe them, which then makes the site staff look like dicks. Enough. I'm not participating in this pointless bollocks anymore. I'm off. There's better things to do in my spare time than waste it monitoring keyboard drama. It's getting really boring. Not only that, people are getting hurt by this and this is no good at all. Im not necessarily referring to the site crew when I say that. It is that toxic. To Dan, I care about you and wish you every success with the site, to those who are going to take the baton and sort this out. You are awesome also. But I know it's time for me to go. So. Bye x

 

Well, I'm sorry to hear that you feel like that, but that doesn't mean that the sanitising hasn't been happening, just that you can't see it.

 

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with wanting to be kind, but it isn't always possible for everything to be sweetness and light, and there are big contentious issues to be talked about relating to the waterways. Issues that people have diametrically opposed views on. If we can't discuss those issues freely, and on occasions bluntly, then what use this forum?

 

Yes, there has be the whole bangate silliness (an example of people not being nice, for sure, but extrapolated into something it wasn't, and ridiculous demands for denials.

 

However, people have been banned for no apparent reason, and even allowing for some of them dressing it up a bit, some of those bans are very clearly NOT about their conduct here, but are about something else.

 

Punitive bans are silly in the extreme, and banning people who don't post to CWDF on the basis of their conduct elsewhere is beyond a joke. It is unworkable, and seems to be only to protect mods from criticism (I rather doubt that anybody would be banned here for calling ME names on NMaR)

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I can't see any evidence of sanitising anything in recent weeks. I've never sat here in an ankle length skirt running searches for naughty words and asking people to be 'nice'. On the other hand what is wrong with wanting to be kind? Not enough kindness in the world. And the amount of dishonest, toxic, energy sapping uneccesary drama, relentless bitching, rumour spreading, singling out and cross examining, bullshit about a bloody Facebook convo that I didn't know existed, bullshit about a supposed blacklist, bullshit about us supposedly being in bed with CRT, all of that, people lying to their mates who then believe them, which then makes the site staff look like dicks. Enough. I'm not participating in this pointless bollocks anymore. I'm off. There's better things to do in my spare time than waste it monitoring keyboard drama. It's getting really boring. Not only that, people are getting hurt by this and this is no good at all. Im not necessarily referring to the site crew when I say that. It is that toxic. To Dan, I care about you and wish you every success with the site, to those who are going to take the baton and sort this out. You are awesome also. But I know it's time for me to go. So. Bye x

However, when evidence of the denied Facebook conversation was presented it was removed immediately. Could that possibly be classed as sanitisation? Perhaps it was removed so quickly that you didn't get chance to see it and wouldn't have known that it happened?

Roger

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Well, I'm sorry to hear that you feel like that, but that doesn't mean that the sanitising hasn't been happening, just that you can't see it.

 

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with wanting to be kind, but it isn't always possible for everything to be sweetness and light, and there are big contentious issues to be talked about relating to the waterways. Issues that people have diametrically opposed views on. If we can't discuss those issues freely, and on occasions bluntly, then what use this forum?

 

Yes, there has be the whole bangate silliness (an example of people not being nice, for sure, but extrapolated into something it wasn't, and ridiculous demands for denials.

 

However, people have been banned for no apparent reason, and even allowing for some of them dressing it up a bit, some of those bans are very clearly NOT about their conduct here, but are about something else.

 

Punitive bans are silly in the extreme, and banning people who don't post to CWDF on the basis of their conduct elsewhere is beyond a joke. It is unworkable, and seems to be only to protect mods from criticism (I rather doubt that anybody would be banned here for calling ME names on NMaR)

 

 

Agree, but I'll give Lady Muck the benefit of the doubt and say that if for example Nick's ban was put to a vote, she may have felt it a step too far; but simply been outvoted by other mods; or veto'd by Dan. Obviously this type of thing remains confidential so we'd never know. Its quite possible a lot of what was recently said was with the "moderator hat" firmly on, thus not her own personal views but "towing the company line".

 

I am sorry to see Lady Muck go too. Especially in these circumstances.

 

I think I joined the forum in about 07 and if I remember rightly LM was a moderator then

 

 

 

 

Now that means that, given the the way the mods workload is described by FadeToScarlet in his post 112, that the pressure on the mods has just increased again.

 

 

 

 

 

So the forum has had a description of the workload on the mods closely followed by a description of the effect of that workload.

 

 

 

I suggest that all you armchair experts who are so good at oh so politely insisting that you know exactly what is required from the mods, and exactly how they should acheive that, and by when it should be achieved, but have not actually tried to moderate CWDF so in reality have only a vague idea of what it is like.....

 

.....just step back a bit and have a think about how having to read your constant demands, combined with having to deal with all the shit emanating from Thunderbox, really affects people, when you go on and on and on and....

 

With the best will in the world you might say your motives are good and no doubt you firmly believe that. I believe firmly that...but you are not bloody helping

 

Meanwhile, Delta9's workload is "light", to say the least - and he is running a different forum alone. Basically, the more, and more complex, rules you put in place, the more policing is required. Cut the rules back to a basic framework of common sense rules to prevent people being downright rude/nasty/disrespectful, and the moderator load will reduce dramatically.

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I suggest that all you armchair experts who are so good at oh so politely insisting that you know exactly what is required from the mods, and exactly how they should acheive that, and by when it should be achieved, but have not actually tried to moderate CWDF so in reality have only a vague idea of what it is like.....

I trust that you would apply this to all sides of this debate?

 

I don't see any harm in having a debate about what could be done to improve the forum.

 

It is fairly obvious that one faction has had that debate amongst themselves and is now attempting to silence those who may not agree.

 

Yes there is some pretty unsavoury stuff being said on Thunderboat but I do not believe it is any less nasty than the dreaded FB conversation.

 

What is needed is a reasoned debate that can ignore the sideshow crap, not an uneasy silence that will solve nothing.

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On the other hand what is wrong with wanting to be kind?

I quoted Emma Smith from her book 'Green As Grass' on a different thread earlier this morning.

 

In acknowledgements at the end she writes:

 

"I would like my brother Jim to be remembered for a remark he made to me when he was an old man, the year before he died: The only thing that really counts is kindness."

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Well said. I wish these pantless mod-botherers would come on and admit what they've done.

 

I do also wonder if we have a small number of member who are responsible for the vast bulk of 'reports'. If so, then it's the pandering to their needs which have led us to this mess.

 

There's got to be a better way of allowing members to feedback to mods. I would suggest that allowing one use of the report button per week would be a good start. I'm sure the vast majority of members would have no problems with this.

I have never felt the need to use the report button, and my life has not fallen apart (but then I do wear big boys pants)

Phul

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Seems pretty clear to me. Some of the most long standing posters with the highest number of posts have been conspicuously absent for the last week or two. It's not hard to work out who I'm referring to. I can't say I blame them.

 

Well it seems pretty unclear to me. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of posters that would fit into that category, one of which may well be serving a ban/suspension/whatever for a recent and flagrant breech of The Rools 'as is'.

 

The 'who' is pretty clear, the 'why' less so.

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This (plus the fact that it keeps being reposted ad nauseum as if we all have short-term memory loss) is what has driven so many folk, myself included, across the road to the friendly place.

Completely agree. Unless the moderation lightens up it will just be Dan and his moderators on here.

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I've just spent 30 minutes trying to find the rules. Eventually I stumbled across the link at the bottom of this page. I don't normally scroll down that far. There is another link on the information for guests which is broken and takes you straight to the forum index.

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I am sorry to see Lady Muck go too. Especially in these circumstances.

 

I think I joined the forum in about 07 and if I remember rightly LM was a moderator then

 

 

 

 

Now that means that, given the the way the mods workload is described by FadeToScarlet in his post 112, that the pressure on the mods has just increased again.

 

 

 

 

 

So the forum has had a description of the workload on the mods closely followed by a description of the effect of that workload.

 

 

 

I suggest that all you armchair experts who are so good at oh so politely insisting that you know exactly what is required from the mods, and exactly how they should acheive that, and by when it should be achieved, but have not actually tried to moderate CWDF so in reality have only a vague idea of what it is like.....

 

.....just step back a bit and have a think about how having to read your constant demands, combined with having to deal with all the shit emanating from Thunderbox, really affects people, when you go on and on and on and....

 

With the best will in the world you might say your motives are good and no doubt you firmly believe that. I believe firmly that...but you are not bloody helping

 

Hi Barry,

 

after some thought, because I have a great deal of respect for you (and the fact that some in the other place show such a lack of respect is probably what motivates me to try and do something);

 

I do appreciate why you see it as you do, and can see why you think that the pressure being applied isn't helping. However, I must disagree here.

 

If the demands for action NOW were all about those demanding action being impatient, you would be correct. That isn't the case here.

 

I'm not saying "do something now" because I lack the patience to wait until next week. I am saying do something now, because really good reasons for delay aren't going to stop the juggernaut of consequences.

 

Frankly, the train is pulling out of the station. IF Dan runs, he might just jump on at the back door. If he delays, and arrives at the platform later with a really good reason for being late, then we can all sympathise with him, but the train will still have gone without him.

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I have never felt the need to use the report button, and my life has not fallen apart (but then I do wear big boys pants)

Phul

While we're all being honest, I've used the report button a handful of times. All but one of those time was to point out that a thread had been opened in the wrong part of the forum. The one other time was when a new poster came on, was horribly bullied by a regular (long since gone) until they'd clearly upset the newbie, then the regular posted a series of mocking, gloating posts, clearly triumphant in that they'd somehow 'won' over this newbie. It was the nasty vindictive actions of a playground bully and I reported it at the time.

 

I suppose that the one thing which really winds me up, when 'stronger' characters club together to bully a 'weaker' person. I've seen it a few times on here, but thankfully it's fairly rare.

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Frankly, the train is pulling out of the station. IF Dan runs, he might just jump on at the back door. If he delays, and arrives at the platform later with a really good reason for being late, then we can all sympathise with him, but the train will still have gone without him.

 

 

Sadly I think Dan doesn't even accept he needs to be on that train you mention, and is entirely happy pottering around in his garden putting down a few slug pellets here and there.

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Hi Barry,

 

after some thought, because I have a great deal of respect for you (and the fact that some in the other place show such a lack of respect is probably what motivates me to try and do something);

 

I do appreciate why you see it as you do, and can see why you think that the pressure being applied isn't helping. However, I must disagree here.

 

If the demands for action NOW were all about those demanding action being impatient, you would be correct. That isn't the case here.

 

I'm not saying "do something now" because I lack the patience to wait until next week. I am saying do something now, because really good reasons for delay aren't going to stop the juggernaut of consequences.

 

Frankly, the train is pulling out of the station. IF Dan runs, he might just jump on at the back door. If he delays, and arrives at the platform later with a really good reason for being late, then we can all sympathise with him, but the train will still have gone without him.

 

Thank you for your graciousness

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But I know it's time for me to go. So. Bye x

 

I'd like to say this is deeply disappointing and entirely understandable. Thank you so much for all the balanced and reasonable moderation you've carried out over the years.

 

I don't understand why anyone mods here. I really don't given what I've heard about the task.

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I can't see any evidence of sanitising anything in recent weeks. I've never sat here in an ankle length skirt running searches for naughty words and asking people to be 'nice'. On the other hand what is wrong with wanting to be kind? Not enough kindness in the world. And the amount of dishonest, toxic, energy sapping uneccesary drama, relentless bitching, rumour spreading, singling out and cross examining, bullshit about a bloody Facebook convo that I didn't know existed, bullshit about a supposed blacklist, bullshit about us supposedly being in bed with CRT, all of that, people lying to their mates who then believe them, which then makes the site staff look like dicks. Enough. I'm not participating in this pointless bollocks anymore. I'm off. There's better things to do in my spare time than waste it monitoring keyboard drama. It's getting really boring. Not only that, people are getting hurt by this and this is no good at all. Im not necessarily referring to the site crew when I say that. It is that toxic. To Dan, I care about you and wish you every success with the site, to those who are going to take the baton and sort this out. You are awesome also. But I know it's time for me to go. So. Bye x

I can well understand how you feel, and thanks for all your work over the years.

 

But that's the worst news I've seen all week. :(

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Until now I had no knowledge of the 'other place' and had no interest in considering any other canal forum. I understand that there have been disruptive influences here who needed to be removed for the good of CWDF. Sadly, whilst I have no idea of the rights and wrongs or who did what, the blood letting does seem to have been surprisingly extensive and I'm genuinely surprised at how many seem to have been banned or slipped away without me noticing. The very public banning of Nick Norman yesterday and now losing Lady Muck has prompted me to look at the alternatives for the first time. I have no wish or intent to leave here, but many of the folks whose advice or input I value are no longer here so the net needs to be cast wider.

 

There are no prizes for the fastest wrong answer, so I don't subscribe to the idea that a wholesale review of how CWDF operates can happen overnight. However, I don't see how it's not possible to find a point when we were all pretty much happy with how this site was running, draw a line under the shenanigans, and return to that way of working as a starting point. Crikey, we could even cease all moderation except for the most extreme cases and be in a better place than we are now.

 

I sincerely hope that we can save this otherwise excellent forum. I'm afraid the more we continue down the current road, haemorrhaging more and more valuable contributors, the slimmer the chances of doing that become.

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And on the other hand long standing and respected CWDFers have stopped posting. They have not 'crossed the road' but they feel the sustained actions of some members have hade this forum an unfriendly place at the moment.

Whilst I suspect we do not have the same view on the current shenanigans, I totally agree with that. Posting here does not feel good at the moment, but it's like a drug, hard to stop.

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Forums tend to have fluctuating members and as people go others with know-how will step-up, so even if some experts have gone, never to return, I am sure there will be others to replace them. Long term I am sure this forum will survive, but in a different form as it is now too late to return to how it was as too many will not return. Sadly I am also not happy with how this forum is developing.......................

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