Helmsman course or not?

[Sea Dog]

We have an RYA school in our marina, they are always out "teaching" people. These same people are still hopeless and clueless at the end of their "course"

Yeah, that can happen too. Some folk don't have the aptitude for boating and quite a few of those folk also don't have the sense to know it! Plus, these courses don't really have a fail consequence like a car driving test, so the school can't really stop them from continuing. However, even those folks ought to be at least somewhat better than they would otherwise have been.

[Naughty Cal]

Yeah, that can happen too. Some folk don't have the aptitude for boating and quite a few of those folk also don't have the sense to know it! Plus, these courses don't really have a fail consequence like a car driving test, so the school can't really stop them from continuing. However, even those folks ought to be at least somewhat better than they would otherwise have been.

Are you a betting man?

Do it, you will learn a lot.

We reckon to get hit two or three times every year by "experienced" boaters who are unable to use reverse to stop their boats.

Its also rather sad seeing boaters on the Thames who are totally unable to throw a rope onto a bollard just a few feet in front of them.

Sadly too many boaters are just so over confident in their boating skills that they are unable to accept that they could learn anything more.

A good course is good fun too.

 

.............Dave

Really?

 

Where do you do your boating?

Edited October 27, 2016 by Naughty Cal

[Sea Dog]

Are you a betting man?

 

 

I only said "ought to be" NC!

[Neil2]

There's another crucial aspect to this.

 

As the saying goes, there are those that knows it, and there are those that can teach it. It's all very well bribing some old hand in the marina with a bottle of scotch but what you're paying for with a proper course is the skill of the instructor to impart information the right way, and to tailor the teaching style to the needs of the trainees.

 

There was an interview I think in WW some time ago with one of the canal based instructors who said they had never come across anyone who couldn't be taught how to successfully pilot a narrowboat. It's all about teaching style and generating confidence.

 

I do think there are some in the world of expensive yachts and cruisers who have jumped on the instructors bandwagon as a means of fleecing people with too much money but that's a different world.

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks and yes that's what I thought, getting some help from someone with experience rather than paying for a course could be the best way to go. Maybe offer nice bottle of Scotch in return for some hands on tutalage from someone who actually lives on a narrow boat is the way to go.

Not necessary from someone who lives aboard, they don't all go boating, some can't even tie up properly, If you go that route you want to pick one who does do a lot of boating. I met one boater who had never done a lock in 3 years of living aboard. On the other foot there are ones who are a wealth of knowledge and who could help you a lot.

[DRP]

Absolutely no question ; do the course!

 

I did one earlier this year - after 30 years of boating.

 

It was a great laugh, and I learned a lot. If you pm me, I'll tell you who to go to.

 

We've just got back from a 5-week trip on the short boat Ribble.I can hardly tell you the kinds of suicidal stupidity we have witnessed from presumably experienced boat owners. Some of these clowns might be the ones who give you friendly advice.

 

David.

[Sea Dog]

Some of these clowns might be the ones who give you friendly advice.

 

:D

 

Beautifully put! There's some great advice to be had, much of it freely available. 'Til you can tell the difference, however.....

[WrightCharlie]

I don't have a boat but I took a 3-day course RYA helmsman last summer in anticipation of buying one next year and as part of my "experience being in a boat before you buy one".

My thoughts echo much of what has already been said:-

You will learn much more than just driving including safety tips, some of which are not necessarily instinctive, at least they weren't to me......i.e. man overboard = turn off the engine first before trying to help them........I'd have chucked in all the lifebelts, ropes and good swimmers I could find before I'd have thought of turning off the engine!

I also found the instruction on rope handling, knots and mooring techniques really instructive.

It was great to have someone experienced to "lean on" particularly when locking and winding and I now feel confident in reversing and manoeuvring the boat through what I used to regard as tricky situations

Add in things like canal etiquette, the "Highway Code", daily boat checks, help in understanding (maybe beginning to understand) boat electrics, pumping out/Elsan, filling with water and diesel etc., etc. All things experienced boaters don't think twice about I'm sure but stuff which i'm glad to have had a shortened learning curve on.

 

Another thought, which I touched on above, is everyone says to "try before you buy". A live-on-board course is pretty much the same daily cost as hiring a boat anyway so if you're in "try" mode there's nothing to lose really.

 

Plus it's really good fun

 

I've held back from mentioning who I did the course with as I'm not sure the moderators would want me to name them? Like you, I'm a newbie to this forum but if you can work out how to message me I'd be glad to tell you who I did the course with as I'd recommend them all day long!

[Richard10002]

If you are in a position to do the course before you get the boat, just do it. You will be shown loads of stuff over a day or two, which will only help you when you step on board for the first time, and when you leave the mooring for the first time.

 

You wont remember all of it, but some of it will be retained and you will be less likely to flounder if you get into a difficult situation. When you get to your 1st lock, you will already have been through more than a few, and so on.

 

I had been sailing yachts on the high seas for 30 years before doing the course in 2006. I learned a lot that was new, and some new ways of doing things I had been doing for years - and I learned how to reverse a narrow boat!

 

It might even be worth doing the course again after owning the boat for a few months, perhaps with a different instructor....

[Naughty Cal]

I don't have a boat but I took a 3-day course RYA helmsman last summer in anticipation of buying one next year and as part of my "experience being in a boat before you buy one".

My thoughts echo much of what has already been said:-

You will learn much more than just driving including safety tips, some of which are not necessarily instinctive, at least they weren't to me......i.e. man overboard = turn off the engine first before trying to help them........I'd have chucked in all the lifebelts, ropes and good swimmers I could find before I'd have thought of turning off the engine!

I also found the instruction on rope handling, knots and mooring techniques really instructive.

It was great to have someone experienced to "lean on" particularly when locking and winding and I now feel confident in reversing and manoeuvring the boat through what I used to regard as tricky situations

Add in things like canal etiquette, the "Highway Code", daily boat checks, help in understanding (maybe beginning to understand) boat electrics, pumping out/Elsan, filling with water and diesel etc., etc. All things experienced boaters don't think twice about I'm sure but stuff which i'm glad to have had a shortened learning curve on.

 

Another thought, which I touched on above, is everyone says to "try before you buy". A live-on-board course is pretty much the same daily cost as hiring a boat anyway so if you're in "try" mode there's nothing to lose really.

 

Plus it's really good fun

 

I've held back from mentioning who I did the course with as I'm not sure the moderators would want me to name them? Like you, I'm a newbie to this forum but if you can work out how to message me I'd be glad to tell you who I did the course with as I'd recommend them all day long!

Would you do that on a river?

[Laurie Booth]

I knew the offer of a bottle of Scotch would draw them in!

Let's hope the person getting the scotch drinks it after the trip.

[Dave_P]

Would you do that on a river?

Ha! That was my thought. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Dave_P]

I can tell you all what I did.

 

I bought my boat from Braunston and my first trip was to bring it to Brum. I did lots of planning and reading first and worked out a route/schedule etc. It was the very end of October, after the clocks had changed and dark early and I didn't fancy boating at night. Due to expected delays with the hand over I planned on a short day to Long Itchington first, then day two to the top of Hatton, day three to Hockley Heath and day four into Brum. It went mostly to schedule because I wasn't over ambitious.

 

Luckily on day one I had two experienced boater friends with me. We took in turns to steer along the long pound before the first locks and they gave me lots of advice on techniques. At the first locks I helped with one of them on the locking so quickly got my head around the basics of what to do. By the end of the first day I had a reasonable grasp of what was needed.

 

For day's two, three and four I had a crew swap to non-boaty friends and I became the expert. We had a few mishaps, a few shouting 'matches, some laughs, but we got there. Mostly I remember feeling so so happy, especially when arriving in Brum.

 

If I hadn't had the help, would I have taken a course? Well, I don't think so, but it might have been useful.

 

As for rivers, my first time, I kept it very short and sweet. It was the Avon at Stratford the following summer, out from Bancroft in the early evening, after the rowing boats had all gone home. I moored upstream at the Old Bathing Place for a week and did a few up and down trips at first before going through a lock. Then I did a down and back trip to Binton and got familiar with Avon locks. I was a fairly gentle introduction to rivers. When I go down to Stratford now, I alway get chatting to boaters who moor in Bancroft Basin but have never gone onto the river or indeed any river. I've found the same in Stourport. Lots of people are terrified of rivers.

[eightacre]

I recommend you do the course.

We both completed the course 10 years ago, and among other things it gives you confidence in handling the boat, and knowledge that you know the "proper" way to do things.

[RichardN]

Don't be scared of going out if you have not done the course, just take your time to work things out.

 

If you can get onto a course then absolutely you should both do it. I went on the course with the attitude of I can drive anything, done some hire boating, what's this course going to teach me? The answer of course was loads.

 

Obviously then get out there and get experienced! Don't waste the course by not using it but that applies to any course (I have that T shirt big time for one bit of Eurocode training as I think that particular code is rubbish and I best not mention Revit & Robot where I am currently re-reading my course notes and thinking did I really learn how to do that X years ago?)

 

I think it is 14 years since I did the Helmsman's course and I am still learning, with our new front rope I am managing some spectacular throws onto bollards but still can't reverse and boy do I have to concentrate on a lock entry but I doubt if I have driven into more than 100 locks in that time, my wife on the other hand has driven into 5000? 7000? no idea how many but loads and all thanks to having got confidence on a course.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

You will learn much more than just driving including safety tips, some of which are not necessarily instinctive, at least they weren't to me......i.e. man overboard = turn off the engine first before trying to help them........I'd have chucked in all the lifebelts, ropes and good swimmers I could find before I'd have thought of turning off the engine!

 

 

Dangerous things these 'courses'.

 

Amazing the difference in teaching - I was taught that you 'turn the stern away from the MoB'.

You need to keep the engine running to give you the 'manoeuverability' to pick up the MoB.

 

As suggested - particularly on Rivers and canalised sections of rivers, but still relevant on canals.

[Sea Dog]

 

Dangerous things these 'courses'.

 

Amazing the difference in teaching - I was taught that you 'turn the stern away from the MoB'.

You need to keep the engine running to give you the 'manoeuverability' to pick up the MoB.

 

As suggested - particularly on Rivers and canalised sections of rivers, but still relevant on canals.

Context is everything. What you were taught is exactly right almost everywhere, but isn't always a practicality when you're doing 2mph in a narrow channel down the middle of a narrow canal. In that context, the stop the prop advice may well be better.

[Naughty Cal]

Context is everything. What you were taught is exactly right almost everywhere, but isn't always a practicality when you're doing 2mph in a narrow channel down the middle of a narrow canal. In that context, the stop the prop advice may well be better.

However the stop the engine advice on a river is down right dangerous!

[Peter X]

The one time I had a man overboard on a canal, he rescued himself by standing up, wading over to the towpath and getting himself out. He was perhaps fortunate that there were a lot of reeds there to scramble up through, and the thick undergrowth on the towpath edge may have been a help or hindrance, but this should I feel be the Plan A followed by the person in the water, supplemented if possible by anyone on the towpath trying to help them out.

 

Meanwhile I'd quickly put the engine in neutral, but by now the skipper was yards astern. I haven't done any course, but to my mind the correct action is generally to try to get the boat to a position where the person can get aboard, but without risking running them over. This is easier said than done given that there is little control over direction when reversing. What actually happened was that I used reverse to stop the boat, then began to move back, but by then it was clear that (1) I was at quite an angle across the cut and not getting near him and (2) he was making it onto the towpath. So I just steered forwards alongside the path a little further on and he stepped aboard there and went below to shower and change.

[Richard10002]

The one time I had a man overboard on a canal, he rescued himself by standing up, wading over to the towpath and getting himself out. He was perhaps fortunate that there were a lot of reeds there to scramble up through, and the thick undergrowth on the towpath edge may have been a help or hindrance, but this should I feel be the Plan A followed by the person in the water, supplemented if possible by anyone on the towpath trying to help them out.

 

 

When I did the Helmsmans Course the instructor asked what was the first thing I might do if someone fell overboard, (knowing that I'd been boating for 30 years or so)....

 

I ran through the gammet of life buoy, stop boat, throw ropes, etc. etc. - the instructor said ask him if he can stand on the bottom and walk ashore - clearly, everything else came into play if it was too deep.

[Jennifer McM]

Sea Dog, on 28 Oct 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Context is everything. What you were taught is exactly right almost everywhere, but isn't always a practicality when you're doing 2mph in a narrow channel down the middle of a narrow canal. In that context, the stop the prop advice may well be better.

 

That's what we were told to do on our course, put gearbox into neutral asp, have someone (if possible) keep their eyes on the MoB all the time, throw MoB a line, and/or life buoy, then if necessary gently manoeuvre the boat towards MoB to a safe distance (probably reverse), then disengage engine again, and use a hook to help fish them out. Asking them to stand up was also mentioned.

[Dave_P]

I've intentionally jumped off my boat into both canal and river. Does that count as Man Overboard?

[Jennifer McM]

I've intentionally jumped off my boat into both canal and river. Does that count as Man Overboard?

 

Did that in my stupid youth, got completely hysterical when the weeds swirled and wrapped round my legs! It was horrible!

[Tam & Di]

The possibility of "Man Overboard" is something that people do tend to ignore though. It is certainly something that couples could advantageously discuss with each other, whether or not they are considering a helmsman's course. It is thankfully very rare, but not something you want to have to consider for the first time if and when it actually happens, especally if that is when you are in a lock or on a river.

 

Now we have stopped as an active school I've just started writing a series of articles on our website, and M.O.B. gets a mention. It is written with barges in mind and continental waterways, but does have wider relevance too. in case anyone feels they want to look it is at:

http://www.bargehandling.com/Bargehandling.com/Barge_Handling_Blog/Entries/2016/10/20_Safety.html

 

Tam

[ditchcrawler]

Here is a real man overboard rescue with a Narrowboat, you will see where and when he used his engine