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christophert

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Yahbutnobut no-one seems to be able to come up with any reasons why those two get better reviews!

 

(I just bought a new Tracer... )

Yeah I know what your saying and tbh I have no idea why they are considered "better" but I know nuffin about solar controllers I had to base my cash outlay on something.

Plus this was just before the tracer became the one to have :)

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Yahbutnobut no-one seems to be able to come up with any reasons why those two get better reviews!

 

(I just bought a new Tracer... )

I've installed a Tracer BN this year after my Steca decided 15v was a good charge voltage for sealed batteries...

 

It's performing well so far, three stage charger with an additional remote panel that lets you select charge voltages and see what's going on. You can have an optional temp sponsor, otherwise it defaults to a 25°C regime.

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I've installed a Tracer BN this year after my Steca decided 15v was a good charge voltage for sealed batteries...

 

It's performing well so far, three stage charger with an additional remote panel that lets you select charge voltages and see what's going on. You can have an optional temp sponsor, otherwise it defaults to a 25°C regime.

 

 

Yes its a Tracer BN I've just bought, for all the same reasons.

 

I'm wondering what on earth the Outback etc which are twice the price can possibly do that's better, and the answer so far seems to be "nothing, other than not being Chinese".

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I have 525w of solar running through a tracer mppt 40a controller. According to Matty's original reply, it makes me think this is falling short in some way and I need a bigger controller. However, on the brighest, sunniest summer's day I've never seen the display read more than 30a so can someone explain what benefit I'd have by upgrading my controller. I'm an idiot with electrics but I think my 3 panels are wired in series, their output is 29v each and the display often reads 70+ volts in summer.

 

I had the panels installed in april and they've been able to supply most of my power needs from then until a couple of weeks ago. I now need to run my engine a bit too. Having said that, my battery bank needs some upgrading!


 

 

Yes its a Tracer BN I've just bought, for all the same reasons.

 

I'm wondering what on earth the Outback etc which are twice the price can possibly do that's better, and the answer so far seems to be "nothing, other than not being Chinese".

This view applies to a lot of electrical gizmos. My 2000w inverter cost me a hundred-and-something pounds and has done everything I've asked of it for the last 5 years. I could have spent £700ish pounds on a Victron and I'm sure it would have been better in some way but for 5 times the price I can help thinking it ought to make me breakfast in bed every morning too.

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Yes its a Tracer BN I've just bought, for all the same reasons.

 

I'm wondering what on earth the Outback etc which are twice the price can possibly do that's better, and the answer so far seems to be "nothing, other than not being Chinese".

Ok just a couple of comparisons as to why IMO Outback are better. First are you comparing like for like on cost. The tracer units range in size upto 40 amps whereas the Outback units are 60 and 80 amp units. Next is the charging voltages that are or can be set. The tracer units voltages for bulk and equalisation are way too low unless they can be changed whereas the Outback are fully programmable with regard to voltage, length of time for a specific charging phase, tail currents etc. If tracer can do all that and more then maybe they are good value, but they are still Chinese. :)

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The Tracer BN range can accept twice the input power that it's rating suggests. In other words, you can hang approx. 1kW of panels on a 40A controller.

With panels getting so cheap these days, the advantages are obvious.

Don't forget that China also makes inexpensive, reasonable quality stuff

Where are Outbacks made? The website only mentions where the headquarters are.

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Ok just a couple of comparisons as to why IMO Outback are better. First are you comparing like for like on cost. The tracer units range in size upto 40 amps whereas the Outback units are 60 and 80 amp units. Next is the charging voltages that are or can be set. The tracer units voltages for bulk and equalisation are way too low unless they can be changed whereas the Outback are fully programmable with regard to voltage, length of time for a specific charging phase, tail currents etc. If tracer can do all that and more then maybe they are good value, but they are still Chinese. smile.png

 

 

Well yes that's worth having, definitely. Thank you! Why could you not say that when I first asked?

 

For your average uninformed punter though, I'd say the extra cost of a Outback is a waste of money because they won't be able to, or be interested in, driving it properly.

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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There has to be overpriced kit, so that overpaid people can buy something that poorer people can't afford. Please take this as Joke/sarcasm/socio-economic claptrap (delete as appropriate to your humour/political standpoint)

Isn't humour now against the new forum rules & regulations? I'd check, but I don't have time to trawl through what has become longer than War and Peace.

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Well yes that's worth having, definitely. Thank you! Why could you not say that when I first asked?

 

For your average uninformed punter though, I'd say the extra cost of a Outback is a waste of money because they won't be able to, or be interested in, driving it properly.

Like me! I have no idea what you're on about! My system turns the sun into electricity. Wa-hey!

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Well yes that's worth having, definitely. Thank you! Why could you not say that when I first asked?

 

For your average uninformed punter though, I'd say the extra cost of a Outback is a waste of money because they won't be able to, or be interested in, driving it properly.

And the add on Tracer remote panel lets you do all that too, for an extra £20.

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And the add on Tracer remote panel lets you do all that too, for an extra £20.

 

 

Really?

 

I've got that too, but haven't RTFM yet so didn't realise!

 

So my original question stands after all. What does the Outback do that a Tracer doesn't, for all that extra money?

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Really?

 

I've got that too, but haven't RTFM yet so didn't realise!

 

So my original question stands after all. What does the Outback do that a Tracer doesn't, for all that extra money?

I have no idea then. Bimble solar are often quoted on here as a good place to go, not that I got mine from them and they describe Outback as the best on the market. Perhaps an email to then would help answer your query.

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I have no idea then. Bimble solar are often quoted on here as a good place to go, not that I got mine from them and they describe Outback as the best on the market. Perhaps an email to then would help answer your query.

 

 

I was only asking you because you made the original assertion that Outback are better, with giving any reason(s).

 

I'm not that bothered really, just trying to hang some facts on what I thought was your personal opinion.

(But now you seem to be saying you were just regurgitating Bimble's aopinion.)

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I was only asking you because you made the original assertion that Outback are better, with giving any reason(s).

 

I'm not that bothered really, just trying to hang some facts on what I thought was your personal opinion.(But now you seem to be saying you were just regurgitating Bimble's aopinion.)

What I originally said in response to the OP was that they are good, not better. I only looked up bimble to see if I could help you with your question and saw then what they said. I would still not opt for Chinese stuff, but as you are not really bothered, will leave it at that. Edited by Phil.
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Really?

 

I've got that too, but haven't RTFM yet so didn't realise!

 

So my original question stands after all. What does the Outback do that a Tracer doesn't, for all that extra money?

The choice for battery type includes a "User" option where you can set all the parameters for yourself within a fairly wide range, including stuff like over voltage cut outs and cut ins . Haven't dug the manual out to check, but I think it included all or certainly most of what was quoted for the Outback.

 

Certainly there were more params than I could get my head round, I just went for the sealed battery setting but cut the max equalisation time down to zero until I can be on the boat with it next summer and watch what it does.

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Unfortunately on the Tracer the voltage settings for the Load function are mixed up with the voltage settings for battery charging. Once you realise the load function settings can be ignored it is straightforward and very flexible. The PC software is a bit rubbish but fortunately the control module is actually quite good and can do everything you would realistically want to do. Also feels well built.

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I have 525w of solar running through a tracer mppt 40a controller. According to Matty's original reply, it makes me think this is falling short in some way and I need a bigger controller. However, on the brighest, sunniest summer's day I've never seen the display read more than 30a so can someone explain what benefit I'd have by upgrading my controller. I'm an idiot with electrics but I think my 3 panels are wired in series, their output is 29v each and the display often reads 70+ volts in summer.

 

I had the panels installed in april and they've been able to supply most of my power needs from then until a couple of weeks ago. I now need to run my engine a bit too. Having said that, my battery bank needs some upgrading!

 

This view applies to a lot of electrical gizmos. My 2000w inverter cost me a hundred-and-something pounds and has done everything I've asked of it for the last 5 years. I could have spent £700ish pounds on a Victron and I'm sure it would have been better in some way but for 5 times the price I can help thinking it ought to make me breakfast in bed every morning too.

 

 

There are lies, damn lies and solar panel specs, your panels will only put out their rated output under ideal conditions, ie at 90 degrees to full tropical sun at noon while kept cool ( probably 25C). So the outputs you were seeing seem about right.

Now as we sink into winter the sun will be lower in the sky and hence less powerful and at a greater angle to the panels. Add in shorter days and poorer weather then your solar output will be down to half maybe less of your summer production. In the depths of winter it could drop to 5 or 10%.

So I suspect that there is nothing wrong with your kit that waiting 6 months won't cure.

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There are lies, damn lies and solar panel specs, your panels will only put out their rated output under ideal conditions, ie at 90 degrees to full tropical sun at noon while kept cool ( probably 25C). So the outputs you were seeing seem about right.

 

That's not quite correct. In many cases PV manufacturers appear to be producing panels that put out more than their rated output when new so that as they degrade they maintain tolerable outputs relative to their specification.

 

Regarding Morningstar vs Outback, we have an Outback and it's great but I'd opt for Morningstar if I was buying again. Outback lock up the data that their systems produce in a proprietary communications protocol so that you have to spend a load of money on the Mate to be able to get live data feeds. Morningstar don't. That's a big plus point to Morningstar imo.

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That's not quite correct. In many cases PV manufacturers appear to be producing panels that put out more than their rated output when new so that as they degrade they maintain tolerable outputs relative to their specification.

 

Regarding Morningstar vs Outback, we have an Outback and it's great but I'd opt for Morningstar if I was buying again. Outback lock up the data that their systems produce in a proprietary communications protocol so that you have to spend a load of money on the Mate to be able to get live data feeds. Morningstar don't. That's a big plus point to Morningstar imo.

Tracer uses Modbus and I emailed them for the address list and they sent me a copy straight back. I managed to get it talking, then thought I might as well just get the control panel.

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There are lies, damn lies and solar panel specs, your panels will only put out their rated output under ideal conditions, ie at 90 degrees to full tropical sun at noon while kept cool ( probably 25C). So the outputs you were seeing seem about right.

Now as we sink into winter the sun will be lower in the sky and hence less powerful and at a greater angle to the panels. Add in shorter days and poorer weather then your solar output will be down to half maybe less of your summer production. In the depths of winter it could drop to 5 or 10%.

So I suspect that there is nothing wrong with your kit that waiting 6 months won't cure.

Thanks. That's what I thought. So why did the first reply to the OP imply that a bigger controller was needed?

A 50a controller on a 600w system is more than enough surely? I can't imagine the circumstances in which 600w of panels could exceed 50a?

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I can't imagine the circumstances in which 600w of panels could exceed 50a?

Voltage is possibly a more important consideration than sheer power when putting a system together. A 20V panel can easily exceed 24V on a bright cool day with the panels optimally tilted. Three of those in series would damage a controller with a maximum input of 60V.

 

Extra power becomes irrelevant - if the panels are capable of producing 1kW for instance then a 50A controller will simply clamp at its maximum of 50A (as long as the panel voltage remains within its limits). The smaller controller is simply wasting power.

 

I believe the original suggestion in this thread for a larger controller was simply to allow for future expansion.

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