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'Marina fined' rumour


Andrew Denny

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I've heard a rumour that a midlands marina was recently fined a considerable amount by a local authority for not enforcing a rule for residential boats to move around on their moorings every few months.

 

Is there any truth in this?

 

Possibly.

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I've heard a rumour that a midlands marina was recently fined a considerable amount by a local authority for not enforcing a rule for residential boats to move around on their moorings every few months.

 

Is there any truth in this?

 

 

 

Only you can tell us if it is true that you've heard this rumour.

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I've heard a rumour that a midlands marina was recently fined a considerable amount by a local authority for not enforcing a rule for residential boats to move around on their moorings every few months.

 

Is there any truth in this?

 

 

 

Setting aside all the suspicions about your motives for asking this, I'd say no it can't be true.

 

Local authorities have no powers to fine for breaches of planning law. Only courts can do that.

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How on earth would that be enforced?

 

We live in a world where calling 999 at half two in the morning having been mugged resulted in the rozzers racing around at half nine the following morning. Don't ask how I know.

 

The Chief Constable of Leicester decided a couple of years back he hadn't enough resources so they wouldn't attend burglaries at houses with odd numbers.

 

The latest one is from the Assistant Chief of Idiotsville who decided not to pay attention to burglaries where the owner may have left a window open.

 

"Hello, is that the authorities? I've heard that the ABC marina haven't been moving their boats around"

Edited by zenataomm
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How on earth would that be enforced?

 

We live in a world where calling 999 at half two in the morning having been mugged resulted in the rozzers racing around at half nine the following morning. Don't ask how I know.

 

The Chief Constable of Leicester decided a couple of years back he hadn't enough resources so they wouldn't attend burglaries at houses with odd numbers.

 

The latest one is from the Assistant Chief of Idiotsville who decided not to pay attention to burglaries where the owner may have left a window open.

 

"Hello, is that the authorities? I've heard that the ABC marina haven't been moving their boats around"

 

 

Look, the OP is gagging for someone to ask 'what marina is this then?'.

 

Do him a favour and oblige!

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I've heard a rumour that a midlands marina was recently fined a considerable amount by a local authority for not enforcing a rule for residential boats to move around on their moorings every few months.

 

Is there any truth in this?

 

 

I'm pretty sure that can't be true. The boats must have moved around a bit unless they were sitting firmly on the bottom, or had been craned out onto the hard.

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[sigh]...

 

Many years ago, the Manchester Evening News would get it's sports headlines as follows: they'd ring up Joe Mercer, the City Manager, and ask if it was true that Rodney Marsh had been transfer listed. When the gaffer said no, they'd run with a headline "City deny Marsh transfer rumours"...

 

 

Main answer is as per Mike The Boilerman - no, because local planning authorities can't do that, they can threaten enforcement action but to implement it they need the courts. As a professional guess, the courts wouldn't want to know unless there was rock solid evidence of some serious & material breach of the planning conditions. They often apply a "so what" criterion in their considerations of this sort of thing.

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So providing a boat is moved around a marina it has permission to remain residential? I've never heard of that one. Either a mooring is residential or its not.

 

There is some weird ruling (that I am sure magpie Patrick can expand on) that a boat with a 'fixed mooring' (ie it always has the same position) loses its status as a 'chattel' and becomes subject to different legislation, whilst those marinas that reserve the right to 'move a boat onto different moorings' keep the rights of a 'chattel'.

 

From the VoA PN7

 

1) Fixed Mooring Position

The mooring is a separate hereditament because it is used exclusively by one boat during the year. When the barge is present, the mooring is domestic property by virtue of s.66(4) because it is occupied by a boat which is someone's sole or main residence.

 

2) Non-'Fixed' Mooring Position

A man lives on a motor cruiser with living accommodation on board. He rents a berth in a marina comprising a finger pontoon at right angles to the bank with water supply and sewage pump-out. The marina operator controls access to the site and reserves a continual right to move the boat from its mooring. When the boat is absent, as it frequently is for weekends and holidays, and even though the boat owner pays rent continuously in order to reserve a berth at the site, the marina operator allows other boats to use the mooring.

Although the mooring is virtually in permanent use and affords self-containment to any boat with living accommodation, the cruiser owner's occupation of the mooring is non-exclusive and insufficiently permanent for him to be liable for Council Tax.

3) A 'Houseboat'

A couple lives in a purpose-built houseboat comprising a timber-clad building on a pontoon. They pay rent for a mooring on the river bank with its own anchor points, access way, water supply and drainage connections. The houseboat has been moored in that location for several years, although it is moved every 2 or 3 years to carry out maintenance to the pontoon.

The mooring is a separate hereditament because it is occupied exclusively by one boat for a period of more than 12 months. The mooring is also domestic property by virtue of s.66(4) because it is occupied by a boat which is someone's sole or main residence. Although a chattel, the houseboat can be regarded as enjoyed with the land with such permanence as to enhance its value, and should be included in the valuation for banding purposes.

My understanding (MP may wish to confirm) is that in (1) the boater is subject to council tax, &, the marina pay council tax on the 'space', whilst in (2) The marina pays council tax on the 'space', but the boat owner DOES NOT pay tax on the boat.

In option (3) to determine the 'band' for council tax. the value of the boat is added to the value of the mooring.

 

Edit to add - the only reason I am aware of this is I came across it when doing 'due-diligence' when looking to buy a marina.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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To be fair to the OP he may have drafted his question poorly. Maybe the following question might bring some less acerbic answers:

 

 


"I've heard a rumour that a midlands marina was recently subjected planning enforcement action for allowing boats in their marina to be used for residential purposes, contrary to planning consent for the site. Is there any truth in this?"

 

But I still find the question odd, and suspect an attempt at starting a rumour.

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Or fishing for a headline, when he doesn't yet have a verifiable story?

 

 

Does the OP run a publication of some sort then?

 

I've realised Andrew had a boating blog back in the day, but does a blog actually need baseless rumours for content?

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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I was told (by a reliable source) that aliens, led by Elvis Presley, had taken over the Grand Union and are planning to pump the water into outer space, leaving the second world war U boats exposed for the fist time in decades. Will this prove a problem for those moorers flouting the rules as they will be unable to move their boats unless equipped with wheels?

 

Otherwise known as I would be very surprised if it were true.judge.gif

  • Greenie 1
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Does the OP run a publication of some sort then?

 

I think he is still one of the deputy assistant editors of Waterways World - or at least that is what the WW "contact us" page implies.

 

EDIT: Sorry corrected - assistant, not deputy.

Edited by alan_fincher
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I've heard a rumour that a midlands marina was recently fined a considerable amount by a local authority for not enforcing a rule for residential boats to move around on their moorings every few months.

 

Is there any truth in this?

 

 

Patrick has quashed the planning side of this; if the planning authority took enforcement action leading to a fine, it is likely to be well-publicized or, at least, freely available information.

 

Whilst not wishing to add fuel to nothing more than a rumour, it is possible that some berths in a marina have been individually assessed for Council Tax (due to exclusive residential use) and removed from the Business Rates list. This has very little to do with town planning - and is a role of central government through its Valuation Office Agency but the local authority demands and collects the tax which falls, in the first instance on whoever is in rateable occupation.

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Marinas have recently been advised that boats must move twice in each year to a different mooring i.e. A-B-C not A-B as currently to qualify for the composite tax scheme. This is causing problems to some marinas and bertholders. I imagine he is coming late to this story.

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Marinas have recently been advised that boats must move twice in each year to a different mooring i.e. A-B-C not A-B as currently to qualify for the composite tax scheme. This is causing problems to some marinas and bertholders. I imagine he is coming late to this story.

 

The poor delicate flowers.

 

But now I'm confused.

 

Is this a council tax avoidance scheme or a planning law avoidance scheme?

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I have no knowledge as to whether any marina has been fined but BWML have the following on their site which makes it quite clear that some of their residential moorings need to have the boats moved from berth to berth at least twice a year to attract a lower council tax charge. If a boat isn't moved then it is liable for a higher council tax charge. As to how it is enforced, all it would take is someone on the moorings deciding to report non movement of boats to the Valuation Office Agency or the relevant Council offices.

 

https://bwml.co.uk/council-tax-clarification-for-residential-moorings/

 

I have had a quick look and can't see anything on the internet regarding a marina being fined so suspect this is a non story.

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