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Advice sought re. Barrus Shire engine


Froggy

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10 hours ago, Froggy said:

I'm going to hang onto this thought until i get another chance to view the display, Dave. It's annoying that the VDO counter is so erratic. We know that the engine was fitted in 2002 to replace the original engine fitted in 1997, so your supposition does seem probable, but maybe the replacement engine was a reconditioned one rather than new. If it was fitted with its original control panel perhaps this might make the higher figure viable?

As I said, 43000 hours is 29 years of compulsive/obsessive boating so very very unlikely.

...............Dave.

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4 hours ago, cuthound said:

The speed the boat averages, or the time spent running the engine whilst moored up does not matter.

Engines wear when running, so it is the time spent running that counts. Industrial engines have engine hours counters,  cars don't because they are used by less technical users,  so the car manufacturer bases his service intervals on an averge of 30mph, because on average the car will travel 30 miles for every hour run. 

Sometimes you can get the display to work again on VDO meters by taking them out of the cold damp boat, and putting them in a nice warm airing cupboard for a few days to dry them out. If this works,  then make it an yearly routine.

I appreciate that engine running time is the relevant factor in engine wear but wasn't aware how it equated with mileage on a car odometer, thanks for the information.

2 hours ago, X Alan W said:

My take on this is you are over thinking, re engine hours/condition is, as Mr Brooks says if it starts easily each time idile's with no (hot) minimum ( cold) smoke ,runs with no unusual noises & has if you can check good oil pressure, & uses no or very small amounts of oil, enjoy your boating, you say the engine was replaced ,was the control panel the original engine panel ? if yes it probably includes the hours for the original engine. If the engine has been looked after & serviced  it is likely to be a better bet than a newer less hours neglected unit Modern marine unit get treated like royalty compare to the same base unit used in plant equipment & they last well in that setup

It is a fault of mine that i tend to overthink stuff. Nevertheless, a knowledge of actual hours clocked up would potentially give us more peace of mind (or not!) as we tackle various ongoing issues on the boat that are eating away money. I think, for one thing, i'd feel a bit more relaxed about how many hours we are running the engine daily to recharge the batteries.

12 minutes ago, luggsy said:

Barrus shire hour meter 

IMG_3235.JPG

Thanks for this. I'm hoping to see the decimal point next time the display makes a guest appearance! Failing that I'll see whether the digit clocks up over the course of an hour.

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19 minutes ago, Froggy said:

I appreciate that engine running time is the relevant factor in engine wear but wasn't aware how it equated with mileage on a car odometer, thanks for the information.

It is a fault of mine that i tend to overthink stuff. Nevertheless, a knowledge of actual hours clocked up would potentially give us more peace of mind (or not!) as we tackle various ongoing issues on the boat that are eating away money. I think, for one thing, i'd feel a bit more relaxed about how many hours we are running the engine daily to recharge the batteries.

Thanks for this. I'm hoping to see the decimal point next time the display makes a guest appearance! Failing that I'll see whether the digit clocks up over the course of an hour.

If it is in decimal mins, you only need to wait 12 mins and it will have gone up by two.

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If you have no written service history,either paper or computer the amount of engine hours is pretty meaningless, an un serviced unit with 2000 hrs would be a different animal to a 3000 hour unit with oil, filters, & whatever changed/cleaned carried out at the required time/hours period. If your batts require an engine run of 2 hrs daily, you are going to have to do that to keep your batts up together irrespective of your engine hours  one of my spare time in retirement jobs is to service logging equipment for a commercial company & we have a processor with a Yanmar base motor to date it has some 16000 hrs on it (serviced at the req intervals ) & to date shows no signs of failure & uses approx 1/2 pt of oil between service intervals.

Edited by X Alan W
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5 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

If it is in decimal mins, you only need to wait 12 mins and it will have gone up by two.

I just need to get the blasted display to show up again! I noticed it very faintly now and then during the winter when the dark evenings made the background illumination dimly visible, but never thought to shine a torch at it to be able to read it. For this reason i do believe that it will shine again. I might consult an astrologer to see if they can help predict when.

1 minute ago, X Alan W said:

If you have no written service history,either paper or computer the amount of engine hours is pretty meaningless an un serviced unit with 2000 hrs would be a different animal to a 3000 hour unit with oil, filters, & whatever carried out at the required time/hours period

That's a valid point, but if it really is reading 43k i guess it's a serious cause for concern regardless of how well it's been serviced.

As an aside, how often should the engine be serviced? Barrus Shire kindly sent me a .pdf manual for our 1950 engine, so i'm being lazy here because the manual probably has this information. From memory is 300 hours about right?

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Its only a source for concern if:-

a. you are a compulsive worrier.

b. There are other symptoms that suggests all might not be well.

I suspect a applies and from what you say  b does not.

The service interval varies from make to make and sometimes model to model. It could be anything between 100 hours and 300 hours. The manual has chapter and verse.

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8 minutes ago, Froggy said:

I just need to get the blasted display to show up again! I noticed it very faintly now and then during the winter when the dark evenings made the background illumination dimly visible, but never thought to shine a torch at it to be able to read it. For this reason i do believe that it will shine again. I might consult an astrologer to see if they can help predict when.

That's a valid point, but if it really is reading 43k i guess it's a serious cause for concern regardless of how well it's been serviced.

As an aside, how often should the engine be serviced? Barrus Shire kindly sent me a .pdf manual for our 1950 engine, so i'm being lazy here because the manual probably has this information. From memory is 300 hours about right?

We service our processor unit every 200hrs which is usually every month /5weeks as it works roughly the hrs the guys do 40 & up per week. As an aside I dont think you would achieve that number of hrs leisure boating from 1957 to 1972 I boated commercially & hotel boated & although not sure I don't think my engine hrs reached 43 K as my calculation equate to 5375 days /767.8 weeks & 14.7 years running for 8 hrs every day at a litre an 'hourish' fuel consumption I shudder at the thought of the fuel bill

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5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Its only a source for concern if:-

a. you are a compulsive worrier.

b. There are other symptoms that suggests all might not be well.

I suspect a applies and from what you say  b does not.

The service interval varies from make to make and sometimes model to model. It could be anything between 100 hours and 300 hours. The manual has chapter and verse.

You guessed correctly.  :)

5 hours ago, X Alan W said:

We service our processor unit every 200hrs which is usually every month /5weeks as it works roughly the hrs the guys do 40 & up per week. As an aside I dont think you would achieve that number of hrs leisure boating from 1957 to 1972 I boated commercially & hotel boated & although not sure I don't think my engine hrs reached 43 K as my calculation equate to 5375 days /767.8 weeks & 14.7 years running for 8 hrs every day at a litre an 'hourish' fuel consumption I shudder at the thought of the fuel bill

Fair point, but still nobody has come back to me regarding the possibility that the engine may have been reconditioned when it was installed and had the control panel from the reconditioned engine installed at the same time. Incidentally, i forgot to mention that the engine originally fitted to the boat was not a Barrus Shire/Yanmar, so in answer to somebody else's suggestion further up the thread (i forget who) the control panel will not have clocked up the hours from the original engine.

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11 minutes ago, Froggy said:

You guessed correctly.  :)

Fair point, but still nobody has come back to me regarding the possibility that the engine may have been reconditioned when it was installed and had the control panel from the reconditioned engine installed at the same time. Incidentally, i forgot to mention that the engine originally fitted to the boat was not a Barrus Shire/Yanmar, so in answer to somebody else's suggestion further up the thread (i forget who) the control panel will not have clocked up the hours from the original engine.

The problem is that unless anyone knows the boat and its history how can you or anyone else tell if its been recondition. I would have thought there are far more important and pressing things to concern yourself about a boat that is new to you than worrying if an apparently perfectly serviceable engine has been reconditioned.

Don't worry about it - just enjoy using it and come back when (not if) it start to play up. Probably in over 10 years for the engine and a few months or years for the batteries.

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

The problem is that unless anyone knows the boat and its history how can you or anyone else tell if its been recondition. I would have thought there are far more important and pressing things to concern yourself about a boat that is new to you than worrying if an apparently perfectly serviceable engine has been reconditioned.

Don't worry about it - just enjoy using it and come back when (not if) it start to play up. Probably in over 10 years for the engine and a few months or years for the batteries.

Ok, point taken, I need to delve further into the philosophical teachings of Buddhism. ;) But nevertheless I'll be sure to let you all know if I spot that decimal point on the display! :)

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I guess we will never be able to set Mr Froggy's mind at ease, if his engine query is resolved I think he will find another to him insurmountable problem, it seem s to be in his make up I fear he is a born worrier, shame it will spoil his enjoyment  I don't think he will ever adopt my old bosses adage " Run it till it breaks & then we shall know what the problem is" as we seem to be getting nowhere with this I shall bow out from this thread wishing him the best of luck

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2 hours ago, X Alan W said:

I guess we will never be able to set Mr Froggy's mind at ease, if his engine query is resolved I think he will find another to him insurmountable problem, it seem s to be in his make up I fear he is a born worrier, shame it will spoil his enjoyment  I don't think he will ever adopt my old bosses adage " Run it till it breaks & then we shall know what the problem is" as we seem to be getting nowhere with this I shall bow out from this thread wishing him the best of luck

I agree and am very pleased he did not ask in the other place. By now the comments would have been both ripe and forthright.

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44 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I agree and am very pleased he did not ask in the other place. By now the comments would have been both ripe and forthright.

What's this other place you speak of, is it some esoteric society for the initiated? Do you have to have a certain amount of greenies to join? ;)

I appreciate everyone's help and good wishes but have to make the point that my funds are very tight at the moment and if I could easily fund a replacement engine, should the case arise, my worries would be almost nonexistent.

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Just now, Froggy said:

What's this other place you speak of, is it some esoteric society for the initiated? Do you have to have a certain amount of greenies to join? ;)

I appreciate everyone's help and good wishes but have to make the point that my funds are very tight at the moment and if I could easily fund a replacement engine, should the case arise, my worries would be almost nonexistent.

Don't go there, its full of outcasts and reprobates. Seriously most of them are OK, just a few idiots.

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10 minutes ago, Froggy said:

What's this other place you speak of, is it some esoteric society for the initiated? Do you have to have a certain amount of greenies to join? ;)

Google a word comprising the loud noise heard during a storm plus what you have recently purchased. There is no moderation and you can say and discuss what you like. The result is that a lot of swearing and personal insults go on. Free to join, just like this place and some of us are members of both.

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20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Google a word comprising the loud noise heard during a storm plus what you have recently purchased. There is no moderation and you can say and discuss what you like. The result is that a lot of swearing and personal insults go on. Free to join, just like this place and some of us are members of both.

 

12 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Crack pipe?

:lol:

Thundery Boat Full Of Worrying Problems? ;)

I guess I'll pass on that forum, I spend far too much time lost in the Web as it is, and besides, you lot are a great, and a treasure trove of useful advice.

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5 hours ago, Froggy said:

What's this other place you speak of, is it some esoteric society for the initiated? Do you have to have a certain amount of greenies to join? ;)

I appreciate everyone's help and good wishes but have to make the point that my funds are very tight at the moment and if I could easily fund a replacement engine, should the case arise, my worries would be almost nonexistent.

In my last post as it seemed to be going nowhere I said I would bow out  However I cannot resist asking a final question Mr Froggy you state you cash is in short supply,which I well understand. Your over riding worry is, is your engine a "Good un" as your funds will not allow replacement. My observations #1,your engine is in the condition it is no matter if you can/not afford to repair/replace it #2 Knowing if it's run 1 or 40,000 hrs will have no effect on it's condition, & whats the point in knowing/ worrying if it's Knackered if you have no way cash wise of rectifying faults if they exist. It appears you require it to run 2 or so hrs per day for batteries to be up to the task Again it's a no go if the engine will not go, so your batts will go flat quite soon & you have no funds It appears the unit is starting running & generally doing as it should with no problems if all is as you say run it like you stole it & it will do what ever is dictated by the condition worrying about how many hrs it's run will have no effect on it"s present condition so it's run 40,000 hrs & it's knackered,WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? you have no funds to renew/build it,you cannot charge your batts.Knowing or not Knowing will make no difference if you knew it had run a lot of hrs what difference would it make You would know it was a problem BUT WHAT WOULD /COULD YOU DO ABOUT IT re cash problems My advice although you will probably ignore /disregard it  is RUN IT UNTIL SOMETHING GOES WRONG You never know it might more than likely run for a number of years with no problems other than requiring servicing.& start worring thinking problems if it goes "BANG"

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22 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

In my last post as it seemed to be going nowhere I said I would bow out  However I cannot resist asking a final question Mr Froggy you state you cash is in short supply,which I well understand. Your over riding worry is, is your engine a "Good un" as your funds will not allow replacement. My observations #1,your engine is in the condition it is no matter if you can/not afford to repair/replace it #2 Knowing if it's run 1 or 40,000 hrs will have no effect on it's condition, & whats the point in knowing/ worrying if it's Knackered if you have no way cash wise of rectifying faults if they exist. It appears you require it to run 2 or so hrs per day for batteries to be up to the task Again it's a no go if the engine will not go, so your batts will go flat quite soon & you have no funds It appears the unit is starting running & generally doing as it should with no problems if all is as you say run it like you stole it & it will do what ever is dictated by the condition worrying about how many hrs it's run will have no effect on it"s present condition so it's run 40,000 hrs & it's knackered,WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? you have no funds to renew/build it,you cannot charge your batts.Knowing or not Knowing will make no difference if you knew it had run a lot of hrs what difference would it make You would know it was a problem BUT WHAT WOULD /COULD YOU DO ABOUT IT re cash problems My advice although you will probably ignore /disregard it  is RUN IT UNTIL SOMETHING GOES WRONG You never know it might more than likely run for a number of years with no problems other than requiring servicing.& start worring thinking problems if it goes "BANG"

Alan, i completely accept your logic here. That's not going to stop me looking to see whether or not there is a decimal point on the display next time it becomes visible though! I'm sure you would have asked questions about the engine before you bought your boat and would have walked away from it, or negotiated a significant reduction in price, for one that didn't come up to your expectations. We couldn't read the display when we bought the boat, so took a chance as per the earlier posts in the thread, but that didn't mean that my curiosity stopped there. Maybe i'm a bit of a worrier, but you are wrong if you think i spend my whole time worrying. I have had countless moments of pleasure on the boat in the short time since we bought it in November. Some of those moments have come from sailing it, and many more have been spent when moored up, watching the wildlife and the scenery, exploring the surrounding countryside, or just sat with with one of my other half's excellent cooked meals, a bottle of Old Tom or something similar, and watching tv or a good dvd.

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There was no hour counter on the boat when I bought ours out of a hire fleet and it bothered me not one jot. What would have bothered me is if it did not start well from cold, leaked or burned oil, smoked excessively or banged when running. It did not and now some 17 years plater I am still not worried.

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all the above advice is very correct especially with regards to how you go forward from here and the fact that if funds are low then you may not be able to fix the problem ( percieved or actual ) anyway . 

Regardless of the engine hours , you and engine are where you are & if the engine seems to be performing ok then thats all well and good . As you can see in the photo above there IS a decimal point before the last number - yours will be the same . 

I would humbly suggest you now move on , & try to stop worrying ( if infact you are ... ) . Say that from now on the engine will be serviced according to the service intervals recommended in the manual ( 250 hours ?) by yourself or by paying someone else . This will bring peace of mind that during your ownership , regardless of what happened previously , the engine was maintained as required . 

Thats pretty much all you can do & all you need to do . Things will still go wrong with it from time to time , but thats boat ownership innit ?

cheers 

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2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

There was no hour counter on the boat when I bought ours out of a hire fleet and it bothered me not one jot. What would have bothered me is if it did not start well from cold, leaked or burned oil, smoked excessively or banged when running. It did not and now some 17 years plater I am still not worried.

WotEver didn't have an hour counter either. It started easily, didn't smoke and (once the rubber mounts were replaced) it ran smoothly. The boat went fwd and backwards so it all seemed good to me. 

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