BCN Challenge details released.

[john6767]

Just now, cereal tiller said:

Not all Men are Tories,your Philosophy is sound though

CT

Spill chucker lol.......

[Graham and Jo]

57 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Yes. This year we managed to plan a successful route without using optimisation software too

And to comfort you, check out our results for 2015 and 2016

Richard

Having just put your route into my planning system it is clear that you have managed a 10% higher speed than I think we would. I'm not saying you are speeding as 10% more than us is still well under the speed limit. Of course Tawny Owl is longer than Dotterel and so the theoretical maximum speed based upon displacement hull calcs is better. 8% better actually. I think I need to put an extra 10 feet in the boat. Is that being a little obsessive?

Cheers Graham

[RLWP]

8 hours ago, Graham and Jo said:

Having just put your route into my planning system it is clear that you have managed a 10% higher speed than I think we would. I'm not saying you are speeding as 10% more than us is still well under the speed limit. Of course Tawny Owl is longer than Dotterel and so the theoretical maximum speed based upon displacement hull calcs is better. 8% better actually. I think I need to put an extra 10 feet in the boat. Is that being a little obsessive?

Cheers Graham

It's more likely that we were doing locks faster than Dotterel because we have a large, experienced and enthusiastic crew. Most BCN flights we can manage four minutes lock entrance to lock entrance. ISTR we were slightly quicker than that on some of the Walsall locks

Richard

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, RLWP said:

It's more likely that we were doing locks faster than Dotterel because we have a large, experienced and enthusiastic crew.

Ive seen MP, hes not that large

[john6767]

4 minutes ago, RLWP said:

It's more likely that we were doing locks faster than Dotterel because we have a large, experienced and enthusiastic crew. Most BCN flights we can manage four minutes lock entrance to lock entrance. ISTR we were slightly quicker than that on some of the Walsall locks

Richard

Walsall locks were quick for us this year too, Birchills Junction to Walsall Junction was 48 mins, so for 8 locks and about a mile at the top that is about 4 mins per lock.

[RLWP]

Just now, john6767 said:

Walsall locks were quick for us this year too, Birchills Junction to Walsall Junction was 48 mins, so for 8 locks and about a mile at the top that is about 4 mins per lock.

The broken paddle on the bottom lock slowed things up a bit.

Richard

[Graham and Jo]

11 minutes ago, RLWP said:

It's more likely that we were doing locks faster than Dotterel because we have a large, experienced and enthusiastic crew. Most BCN flights we can manage four minutes lock entrance to lock entrance. ISTR we were slightly quicker than that on some of the Walsall locks

Richard

That is faster than my plan, I think I need to run some training sessions! More cruising, Yay.

Cheers Graham

[starman]

Reading a few of the comments I'm starting to think that some people will be demanding tv replays, gps tracking devices and mandatory drug testing next year. I thought the event was supposed to be fun?

[Dave_P]

We'd all have to agree what the mandatory drugs would be. 

[RLWP]

There was a pusher on a little white boat during the challenge 

Yes, it is fun. This is how we have fun, although the post event stuff here is beginning to sound like post race appeals at an amateur yachting club

Richard 

[Graham and Jo]

How about testing for minimum alcohol levels, any crews found completely sober is disqualified. 

I like all the planning side so post event analysis is fun. Jo has to drag me away from my spreadsheets at bedtime.

Graham

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, starman said:

Reading a few of the comments I'm starting to think that some people will be demanding tv replays, gps tracking devices and mandatory drug testing next year. I thought the event was supposed to be fun?

The BCN Challenge is a competition and a tough one at that, requiring considerable time in planning and effort in execution. To want to know the scores are fairly and accurately awarded is perfectly natural. I also think the introduction of a bit of technology - particularly if it gives us a known winner on the day - would be positive.

If you think there is discord between competing parties on here you would be missing the point entirely. Between 0800 on Saturday and 1400 on Sunday there is a definite rivalry but the key to that rivalry is the camaraderie between the competitors. Post-1400 on Sunday the chief protagonists of this thread will be found sharing beer, food and stories and recognizing they are like minded canal boaters. The fact that John6767 and Laurie are from opposite ends of the competitiveness scale is all part of what makes it fun. There isn't a formula for having fun but I can say for sure being there taking part is a whole lot more fun than procrastinating about it on CWDF.

If you haven't ever done it give it a try.

JP

[RLWP]

I'd suggest Barney and the shark are examples of the level of ruthless competitiveness in the challenge. As is stopping to take on beer from Carpe Vinum

Richard

[alan_fincher]

59 minutes ago, RLWP said:

There was a pusher on a little white boat during the challenge

Was it a pusher tug?

[john6767]

1 hour ago, starman said:

Reading a few of the comments I'm starting to think that some people will be demanding tv replays, gps tracking devices and mandatory drug testing next year. I thought the event was supposed to be fun?

Entering this is a lot of effort, well it is for us, we put a lot of time into planing the challenge and in getting the boat there. The 2 days of the challenge are very tough work,  and very different to anything else you do on a day to day basis and that is what makes it fun.  Also thinking about what went wrong and what we could have done better is all part of it.

I don't think you should take the comments on here too seriously, it is just part of the usual dissection of what happened, but please appreciate the effort that it has taken for all those that have competed to get a good score.

 

[rrt2]

On 07/06/2017 at 11:08, Rob-M said:

I didn't think the Narrowboat Trust were competing this year...

We were entered but there was some serious hull repairs needed so rather than risk anything we decided not to participate.

Just for the perdantic ones I did let the organisers know, so that if they got more than 50 entrys we would not be stopping anyone from entering.

It is a sad fact of life that deep drafted boats and shallow canals do not go together.

We will I hope be doing 2018s event and will be our usual polite and helpfull selves when it comes to letting people past, lifting a paddle for those following and getting a lot on the blade so the others don't

[dmr]

17 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Entering this is a lot of effort, well it is for us, we put a lot of time into planing the challenge and in getting the boat there. The 2 days of the challenge are very tough work,  and very different to anything else you do on a day to day basis and that is what makes it fun.  Also thinking about what went wrong and what we could have done better is all part of it.

I don't think you should take the comments on here too seriously, it is just part of the usual dissection of what happened, but please appreciate the effort that it has taken for all those that have competed to get a good score.

 

Main objectives are to get boats onto the BCN and to have fun. Some people are very competitive about it and Tawny Owl certainly treat it like a precise military mission (they came up Ryders Green behind us and it was impressive).  I strongly feel the challenge should be be based on good gentlemens (and ladies) honest behaviour and not sure GPS is the way to go. The cheats can still cheat if they want by putting the GPS onto a pushbike. However if any software types want to put in the effort a live display of were every boat is would be rather fun.

..................Dave

[RLWP]

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

Tawny Owl certainly treat it like a precise military mission (they came up Ryders Green behind us and it was impressive)

it never feels like that when we are doing it.

We happen to have members who are very competitive, and sometimes my role is to keep them under control. We have a member who is very keen on the planning side, and sometimes my role is to talk him out of the more peculiar routes. It's fair to say we all muck in with the aim of keeping the boat moving, which is my personal thing. That doesn't prevent chatting with other crews, sharing cake, passing around small furry animals or any of the other nonsense I particularly enjoy

Richard

[Little Else]

I'm quite pleased  with  Red Wharfs result especially as we made a detour on Saturday night hem hem. Congrats to TO and huge commiserations to Firefly.

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, Little Else said:

I'm quite pleased  with  Red Wharfs result especially as we made a detour on Saturday night hem hem. Congrats to TO and huge commiserations to Firefly.

Two questions. 

1.Was your detour undertaken in starbug. 

2. Are you the cat (your pic suggests yes) 

[Rob-M]

I see the challenge as an opportunity to move a boat around as much canal as possible using the methods that are quick and efficient but not always used when out boating.  As an example I don't run between locks and flush boats out of locks when I am having a leisurely holiday but I do on the challenge.  Also I wouldn't generally go and raise a paddle for the boat behind me but on the challenge I raised a paddle on the Delph for Goliath because they let us start in front of them as they knew we had to get to Dudley tunnel at a certain time to meet our escort boat.  What they may not have realised was that the couple of moments to raise a paddle help close the top gate the last couple of inches which can be hard when a boat has just exited the lock at pace.  At the end of the day it is all about the enjoyment though.  Maybe next year we will get a train of Joey boats and recreate the last coal run from Anglesey but maybe go via a few lock flights and as we will be towing we will need to work them all through the locks before anyone else can pass through.

[RichardN]

Has anyone congratulated the BCNS for holding this event? If not can I offer up my thanks to them, superbly done again with admirably devious work on the scoring system to keep it interesting! We will probably be too far north next year but we will make an effort to be back in two years time.  

I thought it fantastic that people legged through the Dudley Tunnel (men in white coats may have a different opinion!)

Lower key then in previous years but we do have a fundraising page here: https://www.justgiving.com/teams/IndigoDream . Justgiving have fixed the odd error they had on the Challenge weekend so if you can spare a few pounds please donate to us (or to Carpe Vinum, thanks Darren for your donation). All the monies go to three local greyhound rescue charities who are desperately in need of funds.

[dmr]

12 hours ago, Graham and Jo said:

Having just put your route into my planning system it is clear that you have managed a 10% higher speed than I think we would. I'm not saying you are speeding as 10% more than us is still well under the speed limit. Of course Tawny Owl is longer than Dotterel and so the theoretical maximum speed based upon displacement hull calcs is better. 8% better actually. I think I need to put an extra 10 feet in the boat. Is that being a little obsessive?

Cheers Graham

Boat length dictates the theoretical maximum speed in open water (and with a very big engine). On the cut its all about the water squeazing round the side of the boat so a shorter shallower boat will be faster. I reckon a shallow boat just long enough to avoid the "length penalty" would be ideal. I think Tawny Owl is shallow, but they would do even better with a shorter boat, but would then loose the fun aspect of having a huge crew. A shorter boat will co round the corners (junctions) quicker and also be faster through the locks.

Our boat is 71foot, deep and a bit fat, and getting in and out of locks is very very slow which is why we crew on Golliath instead. We are tempted to try in ours next year but I think it would be dangerous. If Tawny got stuck behind us on Farmers they would probably kill us.

As for crew, I suspect that 3 is optimum but it would be very hard work, 4 is not good, Tawny pretty much proves that "many" is better than 4.

A dishonourable way to win would be an optimum length single handed boat followed by a boat with many crew, taking the same route with the following boat feeling a need to help speed the single hander through the locks  

...............Dave

[Dave Payne]

Short boat, keep it going for the time of the challenge, crew of 6, 2 sleeping, 1 steering, 3 locking with use of push bikes.

Sleep wherever you can squeeze into.

 

[RLWP]

18 minutes ago, dmr said:

Boat length dictates the theoretical maximum speed in open water (and with a very big engine). On the cut its all about the water squeazing round the side of the boat so a shorter shallower boat will be faster. I reckon a shallow boat just long enough to avoid the "length penalty" would be ideal. I think Tawny Owl is shallow, but they would do even better with a shorter boat, but would then loose the fun aspect of having a huge crew. A shorter boat will co round the corners (junctions) quicker and also be faster through the locks.

Our boat is 71foot, deep and a bit fat, and getting in and out of locks is very very slow which is why we crew on Golliath instead. We are tempted to try in ours next year but I think it would be dangerous. If Tawny got stuck behind us on Farmers they would probably kill us.

As for crew, I suspect that 3 is optimum but it would be very hard work, 4 is not good, Tawny pretty much proves that "many" is better than 4.

A dishonourable way to win would be an optimum length single handed boat followed by a boat with many crew, taking the same route with the following boat feeling a need to help speed the single hander through the locks  

...............Dave

Tawny is indeed shallow at 1'10", even so the key BCN skills are first: stay away from the edge and secondly; working out just where the edge is. I got caught out just below Great Bridge Bridge where the offside is much nearer the towpath than I anticipated

If we were stuck behind you on Farmer's Bridge, you'd find every lock ahead of you set and people on the gates so your crew could stay ahead of the boat

And yes, we were contemplating the 'That single hander is nothing to do with us, oh no...' strategy, along with the 30' cruiser with a 40' bowsprit, canoes and other bonkers things. Those long sections on the Northern BCN tend to encourage such thinking. It passes the time

How about a Dragon boat?

Richard

Edited June 8, 2017 by RLWP