Trouble at Sainsburys mooring in Kidderminster

[frangar]

I've just found this on the Narrowboat Moaners & Ranters group on Facebook.

 

I've no connection with anyone involved but thought it deserved a wider audience.

 

I'm sure people will have an opinion......

 

"Can I have some help or advise please from somebody that know the law. I am disabled,unable to walk very far due to nerve damage in my back,i am in constant pain i have to take another of painkillers and also use morphine patches. My wife is my full time carer we were moored at sainsbury 's Kidderminster, we had been there about a week, we were in bed one night a gang of youths came past throwing bricks on top of the boat trying to break the solar panels, my wife got up out of bed and chased them off but got loads of verbal abuse of them a couple of days on the Sunday my wife had go and babysit for our daughter I was not feeling to well myself in another of pain so decided to stay on the boat in bed I have taken lots of pain killers and also had my morphine patch on.something woke me about 5.15 pm,i got up to make myself a drink I felt the boat rock and the checker plate bang as someone got onto the back of the boat they slid the hatch out and we're trying to open the doors assumed it was my daughter or my son come check on me so I went and unlocked the doors at the bottom only to be confronted by a half cast lad and another lad to the side of him and two on the towpath right next to the boat. I said them what the f ING he'll are you doing trying get into my boat I told them to get off my boat they headed towards the front end of the boat shouting abuse and threats at me. I came back into the boat tried phone my wife and the police but had no phone signal on the there were no boat moored behind us or no one walking down the towpath I decided to walk to the front of the boat to see if they were any boats moored in front on us but there was none or anybody coming up the towpath sainsburysshuts at 4 on a Sunday the carport was deserted. The youth were then at the front of the boat the ring leader was egging the others on telling them to smash up the hanging baskets and the plant on the front of the boat, I thought I had better do something by this time my dog had come down and was stood next my we also had an old air rifle which on the boat when we bought it the barrel was rusty up and did not work as as I knew I held the air rifle in my right hand pointing down to the ground.i had my dog in the other hand holding him by the collar I just wanted to scare them as I was really frightened by this time I open the doors and shouted at them leave alone otherwise I will set the dog on you our dog is 16and can't walk that got either I was stood well back inside the boat away from doorstep one youth shouted he has got a gun I am going to phone the police I shouted good phone the police you were trying to breaking into my boat then turned away and walked off shouting abuse. I stood the air rifle in the corner soI could lock the doors thought they had gone about twenty minutes later there was knocked on the back of the boat. I opened the doors it was the police thought thank god help has finally arrived my shock they arrested me and I had spend all night in the cells and told my wife she had to go back and stay on the boat on her own they were not interested in the youth breaking into my boat they just charged me with section 16of the firearms act can anybody please give my any advise please"

 

It's a "closed" fb group so I'm afraid a link won't work for everyone.

 

I shall await the flack from the do gooders who say the kids were just having a bit of fun etc.....personally I would have given them swimming lessons or worse!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[BruceinSanity]

As always, we need to hear the other side of the story from the police but are unlikely to. That location is a notorious trouble spot – just crazy to stay there overnight, never mind for a week.

 

Having said that, it's not good if the fuzz genuinely didn't take the guy's complaint seriously.

[patty-ann]

Unfortunately although my sympathies are with this poor frightened man the law has to respond to firearms...he can claim there was no intent to use but he was holding it. It may only be an old rusty air rifle but with the spate of gun incidents police are going to come down heavily. What a mess.

Its unfair that these teenagers will probably get away with provoking and harassing this man....I really hope someone can help him and listens to the whole story..

[Boat&Bikes]

In a fair world the youths would be charged and locked up for as long as it takes to make them realise their wrong doings. Our country is being ruined by these type of people who have no morals. I hate that nasty types like these are allowed to continue in there evil ways.

[Stephanie's boat]

he needs a lawyer not a Facebook group.

he needs a lawyer not a Facebook group.

 

As for you Gareth, maybe you also want the pleasure of a few months in a prison cell but your fantasy reaction is not the most sensible course of action either.

[Boat&Bikes]

he needs a lawyer not a Facebook group. he needs a lawyer not a Facebook group.

As for you Gareth, maybe you also want the pleasure of a few months in a prison cell but your fantasy reaction is not the most sensible course of action either.

Having to watch my daughter and her friends grieve the loss of a lovely young lad, stabbed to death recently by scum I do wonder whether it is sometimes necessary to get the first punch in?

[Stephanie's boat]

....half a story tells nothing, maybe the lovely lad did get the first punch in and got stabbed in return.

[Boat&Bikes]

....half a story tells nothing, maybe the lovely lad did get the first punch in and got stabbed in return.

But this isn't half a story, it's clear facts... Stabbed for no reason by a drug fuelled man.

[frangar]

he needs a lawyer not a Facebook group. he needs a lawyer not a Facebook group.

As for you Gareth, maybe you also want the pleasure of a few months in a prison cell but your fantasy reaction is not the most sensible course of action either.

So if someone was attacking you or your property what would you do?....invite them in for tea and a nice chat?.....I'm sorry but in my experience you have to look after your own....the police no longer care unless you are doing 5mph over the speed limit or as in this case are an easy arrest.....anything involving some effort quickly gets dismissed.....and before you ask yes I do have several personal experiences of this happening.

 

I think his posting was to get some help and advice.....and don't even get me started on lawyers and how good they are!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Stephanie's boat]

that's just plain silly. it's not 'clear facts' you've just told us one more piece of information.

 

A clear fact is that if you punch someone with a knife, drug-fuelled or otherwise you are much more likely to be stabbed.

 

Apart from the air-rifle the man in the OP did the right thing, holding his ground, inside his boat.

 

What are you suggesting? That like Gareth's fantasy you chase them down the towpath, maybe land one punch and get stabbed in return? or "throw them in the canal" and end up in a cell?

 

That's just plain daft.

So if someone was attacking you or your property what would you do?....invite them in for tea and a nice chat?.....I'm sorry but in my experience you have to look after your own....the police no longer care unless you are doing 5mph over the speed limit or as in this case are an easy arrest.....anything involving some effort quickly gets dismissed.....and before you ask yes I do have several personal experiences of this happening.

 

I think his posting was to get some help and advice.....and don't even get me started on lawyers and how good they are!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

And your advice to this man is 'he should have engaged them in violence'? even with a time machine it's not hugely useful to a guy on painkillers who requires a carer.

 

The advice is obvious, even without Facebook, he needs a lawyer.

 

A further piece of advice would be "don't admit to a firearms offence on Facebook" but I expect his lawyer will tell him this.

[Boat&Bikes]

I shall leave this conversation as I have things to do. Also i prefer not to argue with certain people.

[Stephanie's boat]

And my advice to you ( or anyone else ) in the same situation is to simply hold your ground, a narrow boat entrance is easy to defend and it's already clear these youth need 'egging on' and thus are really not that brave.

I shall leave this conversation as I have things to do. Also i prefer not to argue with certain people.

Probably for the best.

[bottle]

Original scenario/post.

 

How to wind up and get people on their 'High horses'

 

Go for the sympathy vote, imply you were defending yourself,then admit you broke the law.

[MHS]

If you're under attack and do have a mobile signal, ring the police and tell them that you think one of the youths showed off a hand gun to his mates.

 

That way they will be there quickly and you're not one of the bad guys.

[romarni123]

I am surprised he couldn't get a phone signal there.So perhaps all the people who always say when getting bother off kids get your air gun out will think twice now.

[Mike Tee]

I was on my mooring a couple of years ago and three brave 18/19/20 year olds demanded to come on my boat,so I told them to go away.

Threats ensued from them, but when I stood up they realised I was bigger than they first thought, so they retreated, still yelling threats - one of which was that they would throw me in the canal.

I was planning on going home shortly after this, and was concerned about them returning and damaging the boat, so I called the police to get it on record. Because they threatened to throw me in the canal, the police were there within ten minutes and took all the details, then went off after the idiots.

I guess the moral is, don't overreact, and call the old bill.

However, if physically attacked, I only know one response - violent reaction. If I'm going down, someone else is going with me.

[sueb]

Why post a topic from a closed Facebook page without the posters permission? This was done to stir up trouble. It is of no help to the original poster.

[john6767]

As always, we need to hear the other side of the story from the police but are unlikely to. That location is a notorious trouble spot – just crazy to stay there overnight, never mind for a week.

 

Having said that, it's not good if the fuzz genuinely didn't take the guy's complaint seriously.

Aren't the moorings by Saisbury's the main visitor moorings? A couple of months ago we just stopped to get some supplies, but plenty of boats there moored up for the night, and I would not have thought twice about stopping there if we had wanted to. The moorings by the new shops the other side of the lock looked a bit more suspect though.

[zenataomm]

It will have all gone wrong for the old man when the police saw the air rifle propped by the door.

There is only one thing you're going to do with an item that falls under the law of "Firearms".

 

The same applies to baseball bats etc. Don't even keep one under your bed in case of intruders. If you come face to face with an intruder and you're carrying anything that can only be described as a weapon then you can only have had one intention. In the eyes of the law you're the one out of order.

 

Recently when I was awoken by a scrote going through the contents of my van at 2.00am, I called the rozzers who naturally were no where near (after all I was only in the middle of a city) Being hacked off at the brazen disregard for my property I went out to introduce myself and request that he cease and desist and would he like to come in out of the cold while we waited for the police. He declined my kind offer and merely wandered off trying the door handles of every vehicle he passed.

 

John Law hurtled around to my house in a fraction eight hours later and wanted to know what I'd carried with me when I went out to debate with the miscreant. Basically I was asked three different ways what I'd threatened him with and did I have any blood or tissue samples on whatever I'd had with me that could help them identify him? ....... Yeah Right!

 

What I have learnt is to carry a very large torch on such occassions..... because, being old with poor eyesight I want to make sure the intruder can see the exit. Naturally it all falls apart if you don't have working batteries in it! ...... which also make it heavier by the way.

 

Should you find you've been invited to make a statement make sure you use the expression "I was in fear of my life" several times.

[Victor Vectis]

This can't have been nice for the original Facebook OP.

 

But I can't help thinking he was less than wise.

He says there was trouble there a few days before the 'airgun' incident. If that had been me I'd have moved somewhere else, especially as he says that his was the only boat on the moorings on that Sunday.

 

I'm guessing he was scared and frightened, I think I would have been in those circumstances, but brandishing a firearm is not a good idea. If threatened there are plenty of less lethal items on a boat, mooring pins, goat chains etc that could be used for reasonable self defence if needs be.

 

As has been said before in such an event the thing to do is call the cops, saying you think you saw a gun or a knife. That should bring them over in a hurry. You can always say afterwards that you were mistaken.

 

This is, of course, after the event. My sympathys lie with the boater and I hope thing turn out OK for him and his wife.

 

ETA Reckon I'm saying more or less the same as Zenataomm. I've often thought those big Maglites had a secondary purpose!

Edited July 25, 2016 by Victor Vectis

[Nightwatch]

I thought, that if you dial 999 the phone picks up any network which is available.

[mross]

Yes, an excellent reminder for all of us - thanks!

[MtB]

I shall leave this conversation as I have things to do. Also i prefer not to argue with certain people.

 

 

I thought that too...

[mross]

I had not realised how serious it can be if you are caught with an air rifle in such a situation -

 

"The law makes no distinction between air rifles and more powerful guns for which you need a licence – they are all classed as firearms. This means that any offence you commit can carry a very heavy penalty, and there are at least 38 different offences. Following this code will help you to keep on the right side of the law, but, if you have any doubt, seek advice from BASC (www.basc.org.uk) or your local police firearms licensing department."

 

source https://basc.org.uk/airgunning/advice/basc-air-rifle-code-of-practice/

[Woodstock25]

I had not realised how serious it can be if you are caught with an air rifle in such a situation -

 

"The law makes no distinction between air rifles and more powerful guns for which you need a licence – they are all classed as firearms. This means that any offence you commit can carry a very heavy penalty, and there are at least 38 different offences. Following this code will help you to keep on the right side of the law, but, if you have any doubt, seek advice from BASC (www.basc.org.uk) or your local police firearms licensing department."

 

source https://basc.org.uk/airgunning/advice/basc-air-rifle-code-of-practice/

 

It is an offence for any person to have an air weapon in a public place without a reasonable excuse. While there is no statutory definition of a reasonable excuse, it might include carrying a weapon to and from a shooting club, or taking a new weapon home from a dealer. However,it is ultimately for the courts to decide what a reasonable excuse is. Having one on a boat would be tricky to justify, within the definition of the law.

Edited for poor spelling!

Edited July 25, 2016 by Woodstock25