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Lock etiquette


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But I suggest that adjusting the "balance" from time to time should be part of routine maintenance especially as gates that swing open can waste a lot of precious water. It is the lack of husbandry caused by the absence of "proper" lengthsmen and lock keepers that is at the root of the problem.

 

An alternate view of course would be to return to how things used to be, where it was expected the gates and paddles at either end of a lock were leak free enough that it mattered not one jot if the gates at the other end got closed up or not.

 

Certainly 40 years ago that was how the Grand Union operated - you did not close up as you left.

 

The modern requirement to shut both ends is because maintenance has already been reduced to a much lower level and gates and paddles are often no longer anything like as watertight as they should be.

 

There is also far more to ensuring that GU gates with no head of water behind them stay shut than just "balance" alone.

 

For example some of the bottom gates at Buckby, particularly those with narrow tailgate bridges, will always blow open again if the wind is in the "wrong" direction, but if it is a calm day they stay shut.

 

Similarly several of the locks at the lower end of Stoke Bruerne the top gates often self open due to the currents in the short pound, (but often not until you have got into the next lock up). Going back to re-close them is utterly pointless.

 

At "Three Locks", (the original subject), the very short pounds, often with circular water movement in them when the locks are used seem to create effects all their own.

 

I'd be very surprised if all these happenings could be addressed just by tinkering with how the gates are hung and balanced. Trying to achieve this might actually make working some of them harder at times when none of these outside factors comes into play.

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Just wanted to clarify, we did have a wonderful time and met many, many very helpful ,friendly people. I accept the incident was likely a one off , just needed to know that. Also want to note how all on the forum have been exceptional up to and including our holiday . Special mention to Malcolm Kane ( Jerra ) who responded wonderfully to a special request. I had asked where I might buy Cumbria sausages on the net. Had no time in our week to trip north ). They were an integral part of my youth when I still lived in England. Malcolm lives in the Lakes and bought and mailed some to me at Wyvern shipping ready for our arrival. Never having met , I was impressed when he mailed them prior to my sending payment. Very trusting in this age .

 

This was my third hire, and the above was the one and only time anything of the like has happened. For my two first time companions it was an unwelcome end to such a relaxing holiday. But they did also have a ball ( bit sore now though Ha ! )

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How is a lock gate correctly balanced?

 

JP

Do you mean how do they do it? How do they adjust the gates to balance it?

In all the years I have been boating, I have never seen it actually done, but I can guess it is by fiddling with the big nuts on the huge U bolts and/or the tapered steel wedges you can see at the top end of the hinged gate post.

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I'm sorry you met an aggressive idiot sadly they do pop up from time to time. We had one of the gates on that flight swing open on us after we closed it so what happened to you is not unique. A lot depends on the wind and water flow in the pound.

When I encounter an idiot like that I think to myself "I'm having a better day on the water than you are and I'm going to keep it that way" I say nowt and exit at the earliest opportunity.

 

Top Cat

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Someone near Saltaire started ranting on about how I was working the lock and would damage the gates (I usually wind down the paddles before closing the gates which would according to him would damage them). As I just ignore people like this and don't even bat an eye lid to them and just carry on what I'm doing he went on saying he been doing locks for 30years, etc. One thing I hate is people who assume they have more experience than you because they are older.

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But I suggest that adjusting the "balance" from time to time should be part of routine maintenance especially as gates that swing open can waste a lot of precious water. It is the lack of husbandry caused by the absence of "proper" lengthsmen and lock keepers that is at the root of the problem.

I think that is a bit unfair. As has been said the balance is determined by the off-verticality of the hinge axis, which in turn is determined by the way the quoin has been built and the pintle at the bottom and strap anchorage at the top have been fixed. The lock wall may have moved over the years, taking these with it and altering the balance. Making any significant change would involve rebuilding the lock, so it is hardly surprising it doesn't often happen.

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I think that is a bit unfair. As has been said the balance is determined by the off-verticality of the hinge axis, which in turn is determined by the way the quoin has been built and the pintle at the bottom and strap anchorage at the top have been fixed. The lock wall may have moved over the years, taking these with it and altering the balance. Making any significant change would involve rebuilding the lock, so it is hardly surprising it doesn't often happen.

So is it not possible to adjust slightly by means of the nuts on the top hoop (or whatever it's called)?

Edited by nicknorman
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Not sure if it's been suggested but maybe the chap had consumed too much alcohol? There is a pub there after all. A while back a bloke completely lost the plot with me having a coal fire - shouted all the swear words you can think of about boaters being the biggest polluter f****g scum you c**t w****er etc from the towpath opposite the boat. When I met him sober a while later turned out he is a nice bloke just goes mad after a few beers. I went to the pub with him to check thw situation :lol: and after a few pints whooops the plot is lost.

 

You do get 'em from time to time

So is it not possible to adjust slightly by means of the nuts on the top hoop (or whatever it's called)?

Collar strap :)

 

Edit to addabit and make more sense

Edited by magnetman
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So is it not possible to adjust slightly by means of the nuts on the top hoop (or whatever it's called)?

 

I'm no expert, but I'd say probably not. There is probably only one position that the gate will seal well down the hinged side, so probably little scope for altering how that edge of the gate relates to the brickwork.

 

I would also suggest that on the whole if the balance isn't right when the gate was installed, you probably can't go back and tinker with it afterwards, particularly when talking of a pair of gates on a wide lock that still need to connect at the mitre when closed, as well as sealing against the cill.

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Someone near Saltaire started ranting on about how I was working the lock and would damage the gates (I usually wind down the paddles before closing the gates which would according to him would damage them). As I just ignore people like this and don't even bat an eye lid to them and just carry on what I'm doing he went on saying he been doing locks for 30years, etc. One thing I hate is people who assume they have more experience than you because they are older.

 

The National Trust instructions for the Wey locks tell you always to close the paddles before movng the gates. They say it stops weed getting caught ip in them.

 

N

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On most of the Grand Union locks, if you close a top gate with the paddles shut the opposite gate will swing open. If you leave the paddles open while you shut the top gate, the trapped water can escape so the opposite gate doesn't swing open.

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On most of the Grand Union locks, if you close a top gate with the paddles shut the opposite gate will swing open. If you leave the paddles open while you shut the top gate, the trapped water can escape so the opposite gate doesn't swing open.

Hadn't thought about that before.....however a simple engineering fact! Learnt recently that also to close the paddles only

once the gates are closed toon the GU as this ensures that they are closed and if done whilst waiting for the boat to enter might mean the paddle is not fully seated and will leak.

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Years ago a lock keeper on the upper thames (manual locks with balance beams) pointed out to me that if you leave the sluice (paddle) open the gate is easier to swing closed because there is a hole in it. Basic physics again but not something you necessarily think of. They are manned (or womanned) locks so I guess if you are doing them again and again manually you probably do notice the difference.

  • Greenie 1
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Do you mean how do they do it? How do they adjust the gates to balance it?

In all the years I have been boating, I have never seen it actually done, but I can guess it is by fiddling with the big nuts on the huge U bolts and/or the tapered steel wedges you can see at the top end of the hinged gate post.

 

Essentially yes. I was wondering what it is that CRT aren't doing and how the distribution of mass in one plane can trigger - or more correctly, aid - movement in a direction perpendicular to that plane.

 

We don't yet have a definitive answer.

 

It also occurs to me that the balance of a gate will change with varying water levels.

 

JP

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The National Trust instructions for the Wey locks tell you always to close the paddles before movng the gates. They say it stops weed getting caught ip in them.

 

N

On alot of gates opening them without the paddles up is near impossible (well the first gate to open!). It was just his attitude that he been doing it for years and was right (when he was wrong) that gets my goat.

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Years ago a lock keeper on the upper thames (manual locks with balance beams) pointed out to me that if you leave the sluice (paddle) open the gate is easier to swing closed because there is a hole in it. Basic physics again but not something you necessarily think of. They are manned (or womanned) locks so I guess if you are doing them again and again manually you probably do notice the difference.

 

I have always assumed this to be the case and even on the Wey I did the same. (I do hope that the officials of the NT are not reading this.) I didn't notice any problem with weed getting caught up.

 

As I see it the reason for leaving the paddles drawn until at least one gate is open means that the lock won't drop out of level before the gate can be opened. This will happen if the gates or paddles at the other end are leaky.

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As I see it the reason for leaving the paddles drawn until at least one gate is open means that the lock won't drop out of level before the gate can be opened. This will happen if the gates or paddles at the other end are leaky.

I agree, I learnt this lesson many moons ago, when for a while I couldn't work out why I could no longer open the top gate to let the boat out :)

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I have always assumed this to be the case and even on the Wey I did the same. (I do hope that the officials of the NT are not reading this.) I didn't notice any problem with weed getting caught up.

 

As I see it the reason for leaving the paddles drawn until at least one gate is open means that the lock won't drop out of level before the gate can be opened. This will happen if the gates or paddles at the other end are leaky.

Yes of course you leave paddles open when opening gates - but it was the idea of also leaving them open when closing the gates that I was on about :)

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As I see it the reason for leaving the paddles drawn until at least one gate is open means that the lock won't drop out of level before the gate can be opened. This will happen if the gates or paddles at the other end are leaky.

 

You are moving quite a bit of water as you start to swing the leaf of the gate through the water, leaving the paddle open can help

 

Richard

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