Sky News in Brentford

[NigelMoore]

Sky TV is apparently filming down in Brentford at 6pm this evening, following the recent story over the sinking of ‘Deepwater’, one of the boats taken over by Hounslow Council when the owner eventually tired of attempting to legitimise his moorings at Watermans Park.

 

It has been a long-drawn out struggle with ignorance on all sides, over these moorings that used to belong to the old gas works, which were taken over by Hounslow when they turned the old works into a park.

 

Over decades, Hounslow has refused to legitimise those who wanted to pay moorings and Council Tax to be there, and the new “marina” plans they have approved for themselves have no place for any but the very wealthiest of the present incumbents.

 

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/watch-historic-boat-sinks-thames-11192708

 

I was asked to contribute via an interview, but had no prior notice and am far away at present; however I have spoken at length with several of the boaters affected over the years, attempting to assist with understanding of the relative legal and practical issues, and they comprise some very articulate, professional media people, so I would expect them to make as good a showing as could be hoped for.

 

 

edit to add: have just been told that the theme of the Sky programme centres on the over-'gentrification' of Brentford, at the expense of the local inhabitants. That is certainly something that has been happening everywhere here, not just with the waterways.

Edited April 23, 2016 by NigelMoore

[mark99]

Sky TV is apparently filming down in Brentford at 6pm this evening, following the recent story over the sinking of ‘Deepwater’, one of the boats taken over by Hounslow Council when the owner eventually tired of attempting to legitimise his moorings at Watermans Park.

 

It has been a long-drawn out struggle with ignorance on all sides, over these moorings that used to belong to the old gas works, which were taken over by Hounslow when they turned the old works into a park.

 

Over decades, Hounslow has refused to legitimise those who wanted to pay moorings and Council Tax to be there, and the new “marina” plans they have approved for themselves have no place for any but the very wealthiest of the present incumbents.

 

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/watch-historic-boat-sinks-thames-11192708

 

I was asked to contribute via an interview, but had no prior notice and am far away at present; however I have spoken at length with several of the boaters affected over the years, attempting to assist with understanding of the relative legal and practical issues, and they comprise some very articulate, professional media people, so I would expect them to make as good a showing as could be hoped for.

 

 

edit to add: have just been told that the theme of the Sky programme centres on the over-'gentrification' of Brentford, at the expense of the local inhabitants. That is certainly something that has been happening everywhere here, not just with the waterways.

 

I used to work at Brentford Gasworks. And coincidentally just finished a project at Sky Brentford <Isleworth> too.

 

When looking for our first house I nearly bought a waterside flat in Brentford (would have been mid 80's) and it was being pushed hard then. It's taken a while to take off and be an up and coming and I barely recognise it now in parts (near Kew Bridge end).

Edited April 23, 2016 by mark99

[Phil Ambrose]

It's not a new thing, I can remember well several areas in NW London that I frequented in my youth which were quite frankly not much better than slums. You would see a street in say Paddington and suddenly there would be a skip outside a place that was being gutted, once the first pair of coach lamps went up at the front door you knew others would soon follow, and they did so quite rapidly. The area soon went up market and the locals all disappeared.

Phil

ETA this was 50 years ago

Edited April 23, 2016 by Phil Ambrose

[Drayke]

Brentford seems to have been going up market ever since the working boats stopped operating out of there.

 

I used to like playing on and around the barges at Brentford when I was a very young lad. It was fun watching empty barges slide, sometimes being helped, back into the cut after a very high tide, boy did they make a wash.

 

Fred

[NigelMoore]

Brentford was once the major gateway port to the inland waterways, and carried on with back-water boatyards, moorings and businesses right into recent times. The trouble is that although in past years we were able to cement excellent relationships with planning, conservation, and executive officers in the Council, the political ebb and flow has seen them all gone, and a new lot are in office, with eyes only on the prospects of turning their area into a ghastly cheap version of the Docklands.

 

Where once the waterways issues were very much a live area of concern, the new lot are utterly ignorant and careless of them. River and canal are valued only as sanitised backdrops to waterside cafes and foreign millionaire investment flats.

 

All this within the last ten years only, and I and others have all but given up on the fight to retain waterways heritage and use as a lost cause; too much has been torn down already, and ever more drastic measures in train. The present Council have forgotten the lessons of the past and now look to BW’s successor as the arbiter of desirability for anything to do with the waterside – the same people that campaigned vigorously for the close of boatyards and freight interchanges, in favour of their own developments of high-rise expensive flats.

 

What I never get over is the narrow-mindedness and short-sightedness of developers who miss out on seeing the huge asset a lively used waterway can be to new development; they could be mutually beneficial symbiots rather than having mutually exclusive characteristics.

 

I have heard tonight that the story Sky are preparing on this is still ongoing, so it sounds as though it will be more than a very brief snippet of news when it does come out. Although all locals are affected by what has been going on here since the last world war, it is the boaters and waterside life that is presently most 'picturesque' and identifiable as threatened, where once upon a time they comprised Brentford's essential distinguishing character.

[Drayke]

Brentford was once the major gateway port to the inland waterways, and carried on with back-water boatyards, moorings and businesses right into recent times. The trouble is that although in past years we were able to cement excellent relationships with planning, conservation, and executive officers in the Council, the political ebb and flow has seen them all gone, and a new lot are in office, with eyes only on the prospects of turning their area into a ghastly cheap version of the Docklands.

 

Where once the waterways issues were very much a live area of concern, the new lot are utterly ignorant and careless of them. River and canal are valued only as sanitised backdrops to waterside cafes and foreign millionaire investment flats.

 

All this within the last ten years only, and I and others have all but given up on the fight to retain waterways heritage and use as a lost cause; too much has been torn down already, and ever more drastic measures in train. The present Council have forgotten the lessons of the past and now look to BW’s successor as the arbiter of desirability for anything to do with the waterside – the same people that campaigned vigorously for the close of boatyards and freight interchanges, in favour of their own developments of high-rise expensive flats.

 

What I never get over is the narrow-mindedness and short-sightedness of developers who miss out on seeing the huge asset a lively used waterway can be to new development; they could be mutually beneficial symbiots rather than having mutually exclusive characteristics.

 

I have heard tonight that the story Sky are preparing on this is still ongoing, so it sounds as though it will be more than a very brief snippet of news when it does come out. Although all locals are affected by what has been going on here since the last world war, it is the boaters and waterside life that is presently most 'picturesque' and identifiable as threatened, where once upon a time they comprised Brentford's essential distinguishing character.

Agreed Nigel, suppose it's all boils down to monies, how much can we make from this or that scheme.

[Arthur Brown]

More flats built, more council taxes being paid.

[cuthound]

More flats built, more council taxes being paid.

Whilst this is strictly true, regarding council tax, one mustn't forget that councils also receive income from business rates.

[Tam & Di]

It has been a long-drawn out struggle with ignorance on all sides, over these moorings that used to belong to the old gas works, which were taken over by Hounslow when they turned the old works into a park.

 

We had occasion to be on the Hollows Footpath immediately upstream of Kew Bridge recently, where we used to live on ex-sailing barge "Cumberland about 1960. Talking with someone there it appeared that several of the craft at that site had been bought up by someone who rents them out. It does make me slightly uneasy, and I'm sure it would be better for them to remain in the ownership the people living on board.

 

Tam

[NigelMoore]

 

. . . it would be better for them to remain in the ownership the people living on board.

 

To an extent I would agree Tam, but many of the owners are still the original boaters earning a crust from their situation - in which case, why not?

 

There is a long history at the Hollows and further West, of houseboat living, and at present there are 3 main areas – the Hollows itself; Victoria Steps Quay, and Watermans Park.

 

I understand the unease at the idea of absentee landlords buying up such moorings only for renting out – but realistically, renting out these boats has been a feature of many owners there for a long time, and it gives those with no chance to live aboard otherwise, a priceless and valued opportunity.

 

Some of the Hollows moorings are privately owned freehold riverbanks; the rest are on Riverworks licences from the PLA. Victoria Steps Quay is privately owned, and the moorings rented out for decades now.

 

The ‘free for all’ is limited to Watermans Park, and the Council have resisted legitimising the boats that moored there for decades, on the absurd grounds that doing so would result in an inability to control moorings thereafter. They have refused to clear away the obvious derelicts, on the equally absurd grounds that doing so would just attract more squatters.

 

Truth is: they could have been garnering income from the boats to offset the thousands per annum they have paying the PLA for the relevant works licence all these years – while delegating one or two incumbents as wardens could have achieved local control free of cost.

 

Instead, they and the PLA have batted the responsibility of control to and fro between them with neither side achieving anything but ill-will; thrown away legal costs, and increasing squatter population. The present “marina” scheme is an absurdly costly and pathetically badly designed one, with an estimated cost of more than 5 and a half million pounds. Designedly, few if any, of those presently there, could ever hope to afford a berth at the necessary level to recoup such expenditure.

 

Instead of going the Richmond route of obtaining the necessary byelaws, Hounslow have adopted the BW/CaRT tactic of legal bluff, and have served notices of intent to take everyone not vacating freely, to court for trespass. They might just get away with it, but with vastly experienced litigants ‘onboard’, the time and cost may well be crippling.

 

It was and is so unnecessary.

 

[WJM]

Watermans Park moorings are a scruffy mess full of freeloaders. I am delighted that the council have decided to clean the mess up.

[spadefoot]

Watermans Park moorings are a scruffy mess full of freeloaders. I am delighted that the council have decided to clean the mess up.

What is it that you object to? The scruffiness or the "freeloading"?

[WJM]

What is it that you object to? The scruffiness or the "freeloading"?

Both

[martinjcdownes@gmail.com]

What is it that you object to? The scruffiness or the "freeloading"?

 

Both

 

Sadly some of the vessels at Watermans park are in need of a retrofit.

 

But the proposed project that is being put forward to the council, by the boat owners and their investors, has an in depth 'refit & refurb' program for all vessels looking to stay at Watermans Park.

 

They admit that some of the boats need replacing and restoring and are happy to do the work. they want a better environment in watermans park as much as everyone else.

 

The boat owners have tried for years to legitimise the moorings and have also tried to pay council tax, but have been refused. I know though that boats towards the eastern end of the park pay council tax, have an official postcode, address, electric supply, water and services.

 

The boat owners are not arguing that the boats need restoration, what they are arguing is that they have a design that is far better for the environment, the borough, the park and the community - than the councils plan. A design that would cost less than the tax payer money in legal fees the council has put aside to evict the current boat owners. which is £2.5m by the way.

 

you should check out their website. i know its still under construction but a lot of the information is already there about how bad the councils project is, not just for them, but for the whole area. i think it goes properly lice this weekend.

 

www.watermansparkmoorings.co.uk

[WJM]

Restoration! Many of them are scrap, restoring them would be a pointless waste of time!

 

The council very wisely refused to take any council tax because that would have established rights. I would guess that proper serviced moorings there would rent for between £5k and £10k per year. I am glad to see the asset being realised instead of being squatted on by people who pay nothing and make the place an eyesore.

 

It is time that Watermans Park is cleaned up. The park itself is very nice, it is just depressing that it has a shanty town bobbing up and down beside it.

[gazza]

 

 

Sadly some of the vessels at Watermans park are in need of a retrofit.

 

But the proposed project that is being put forward to the council, by the boat owners and their investors, has an in depth 'refit & refurb' program for all vessels looking to stay at Watermans Park.

 

They admit that some of the boats need replacing and restoring and are happy to do the work. they want a better environment in watermans park as much as everyone else.

 

The boat owners have tried for years to legitimise the moorings and have also tried to pay council tax, but have been refused. I know though that boats towards the eastern end of the park pay council tax, have an official postcode, address, electric supply, water and services.

 

 

The boat owners are not arguing that the boats need restoration, what they are arguing is that they have a design that is far better for the environment, the borough, the park and the community - than the councils plan. A design that would cost less than the tax payer money in legal fees the council has put aside to evict the current boat owners. which is £2.5m by the way.

 

you should check out their website. i know its still under construction but a lot of the information is already there about how bad the councils project is, not just for them, but for the whole area. i think it goes properly lice this weekend.

 

www.watermansparkmoorings.co.uk

I'm crap at IT, Unless I'm doing something wrong most of the sub menus on that website are password protected.

[martinjcdownes@gmail.com]

If you read the councils plan for the Park and tie them in with the other projects in the area: The Watermans art centre, Max factor building, the M4 roundabout, The south side of the Brentford high street, the steam museum, Gunnersbury Park, Morrisons and the road widening scheme, you would realise you will not have a park in 5 years.

 

You have to read all the documents and realise the council's real plans for Watermans park.

 

This is not about a few boats moored in the wrong place. this is about the council steamrollering their ideas over the residents of the borough on any matter that gets in the way of them making the most amount of profit out of the land they have only been made custodian of, for the few years they are in office.

 

Look at the number of acres of public open land that has been 'given' or sold off to private ventures in the borough in the last few years by the council. How did we just gift 41 acres of land to QPR for example?

 

Do you want a car park in Watermans Park? well if you do, then by all means agree with the council on their plans for 'regenerating' the park. because that is what they are proposing.

 

 

Do you want to lose all the disabled access at the east end of the Park? if so then again please side with the council on this plan.

 

look at their plans, read them. understand them. Then come and tell me that the councils plans are the best for the area….

I'm crap at IT, Unless I'm doing something wrong most of the sub menus on that website are password protected.

yeah a lot is protected with passwords. but its live this weekend.

[gazza]

Edited cos of the above....

Edited April 25, 2016 by gazza

[NigelMoore]

It is a very awkward forum to negotiate, but the local website’s Community Forum contains more information as well as comparisons between the Council plans and those of the boaters.

 

www.brentfordtw8.com I can’t get links to the forum sub-titles so you need to click ‘Community Forum’ on the white on blue list on the LHS of the page, then click on ‘Forum’.

 

The topic currently at the top of the list is:

 

'Disgusting and dangerous' behaviour at 'illegally-moored' houseboats in Brentford'

 

Alternatively, you can get more info from a couple of recent articles –

 

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/disgusting-dangerous-behaviour-illegally-moored-11073948

 

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/boat-owners-facing-eviction-draw-10957496

 

It should be noted that with the recent introduction of new PLA byelaws, most all boaters on this stretch of the river [including the Hollows] who had not previously been connected to mains sewers, have installed composting loos.

[mark99]

I've a distant memory of connecting some of the boats there to main gas. Via a meter on the bank and a long flexible hose from the meter to boat. In fact IIRC a Gas Industry Engineering Standard was produced for such unusual boaty applications.

 

ETA yes it was IGEM GM/6 for permanently moored boats and mobile homes.

 

Later on when we were told to get out of Brentford Gas Works, I spend months as a PM moving the large (30" and 26") gas mains out of the Works and diverting them in High St in their new locations within the street. The land was sold off, the gas holders pulled down and I don't know what's there now but it was empty for ages.

 

Moved to Richmond Gas Works and the same thing happened. Except I was PM for the Gas Holder demolitions and beleive me that land did not stay vacant for long!

Edited April 25, 2016 by mark99

[spadefoot]

Both

Sad.

[NigelMoore]

I've a distant memory of connecting some of the boats there to main gas. Via a meter on the bank and a long flexible hose from the meter to boat.

 

Those are still there, at The Hollows. It makes far more sense than bottled gas, for boats in particular. The gas pipes reach as far as 'Induce' and 'Inmost' last time I looked.

 

The boats at the Hollows are of course all fully recognised by both Council and PLA, and are unaffected by the Council plans objected to.

[WJM]

4 years and £20m? Why not 8 years and £40m? Either way it is bullshit - meaningless invented tabloid numbers. And no matter how much you refurbish junk, it is still junk.

 

To anyone who doesn't know the area, it is a squatter's shanty town of junk boats.

[spadefoot]

 

 

To anyone who doesn't know the area, it is a squatter's shanty town of junk boats.

So what? Hounslow is a dump anyway, plenty of people living in worse housing in that borough. People living in converted sheds & garages, people living in tents, people living in doorways. Don't be such a snob.

[NigelMoore]

It appears that Hounslow have been sending teams to pump “Deepwater” out between tides, without addressing why it takes on water in the first place, so it temporarily rises with each tide before regularly sinking over and over again.

 

The local boaters have been pressing the Council to allow them to help out with finding and plugging the hull damage, but hitherto with no response.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbV02EjC2nw&feature=youtu.be

 

Rather more dramatic footage in the above clip.