Carbon Monoxide (CO) has tragic consquences once again

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Macclesfield Express http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/local-news/safety-warning-after-macclesfield-canal-11043952

Safety warning after Macclesfield Canal boat tragedy

Updated 13:43, 16 Mar 2016 - By Stuart Greer

Christopher Reuben died from carbon monoxide poisoning on his boat Nomadic

Chris Wimbush

Christopher Reuben, 52, was found dead on his dawncraft called Nomadic on Macclesfield Canal near Springbank Lane bridge.

Safety advice has been issued after a man was poisoned by fatal carbon monoxide fumes from the engine of his boat.

Christopher Reuben, 52, was found dead on his dawncraft called Nomadic on October 15 last year.

His vessel had been moored on the Macclesfield Canal near Springbank Farm, Springbank Lane, Adlington.

An inquest at Macclesfield town hall on March 7 concluded that Mr Reuben, from New Moston, Manchester, died accidentally.

Now Cheshire Fire and Rescue Service and the Boat Safety Scheme, a public safety initiative run by the Canal and River Trust and the Environment Agency, are urging boat owners and dwellers to make vital checks to avoid similar tragedies from happening.

In the last 20 years, 30 boaters have been killed as a result of carbon monoxide, according to the Boat Safety Scheme.

Graham Watts, manager of the Boat Safety Scheme said: “Over a million people are using boats safely each year, including thousands of people who live aboard on the inland waterways, but our reminder to crews and skippers is to treat the risks with due respect.

“Prevention is the key to staying safe. All engines and appliances need to be properly installed, well maintained and used according to the instructions.

“But carbon monoxide can occur or be made worse when ventilators are blocked, or fresh air is in short supply. Burning fuels need the right amount of oxygen to combust safely and it’s also incredibly important to keep exhaust fumes out of the boat’s interior.

“If there’s a smell of exhaust fumes aboard, there could be deadly carbon monoxide in the cabin and that’s why our belt and braces advice is to fit a carbon monoxide alarm approved as meeting BS EN 50291-2. These are type best suited for boats.

“And if an alarm go off, open the doors, hatches and windows and get ashore straightaway.

“The skipper should turn off appliances and engines as they get out. If anyone feels unwell, giddy, confused or sick they should get very urgent medical treatment.”

Nick Evans, head of prevention at Cheshire Fire Service, added: “I would encourage anyone living or holidaying on boats to ensure that they protect themselves by checking that their boat is fitted with both working smoke alarms and carbon monoxide detectors.”

For more safety information visit www.boatsafetyscheme.org/co

Edited March 16, 2016 by Rob@BSSOffice

[GreyLady]

That's so sad.

 

Condolences to his family.

[ditchcrawler]

just read that.

[mrsmelly]

Thanks for posting Rob. I and others are well aware of the dangers but we all need a wake up call every now and then to keep safe.

Thanks again.

 

Tim

[Guest]

Thanks for posting Rob. I and others are well aware of the dangers but we all need a wake up call every now and then to keep safe.

Thanks again.

 

Tim

 

Do we know more about the actual cause in this case?

[Geoff Taylor]

I know that it is sheer common sense to fit fire and CO alarms but is there any reason why these devices could not be made compulsory as part of the BSS inspection?, if it saved just one life then surely a device that does not cost a Kings ransom has done its job.

[Loafer]

The trouble with that is the BSS isn't very interested in the occupants of a boat - they're more worried about a porthole exploding outwards and taking off a cyclists' legs, or setting fire to half a marina.

[MtB]

 

 

“Prevention is the key to staying safe. All engines and appliances need to be properly installed, well maintained and used according to the instructions.

“But carbon monoxide can occur or be made worse when ventilators are blocked, or fresh air is in short supply. Burning fuels need the right amount of oxygen to combust safely and it’s also incredibly important to keep exhaust fumes out of the boat’s interior.

“If there’s a smell of exhaust fumes aboard, there could be deadly carbon monoxide in the cabin and that’s why our belt and braces advice is to fit a carbon monoxide alarm approved as meeting BS EN 50291-2. These are type best suited for boats.

“And if an alarm go off, open the doors, hatches and windows and get ashore straightaway.

“The skipper should turn off appliances and engines as they get out. If anyone feels unwell, giddy, confused or sick they should get very urgent medical treatment.”

Nick Evans, head of prevention at Cheshire Fire Service, added: “I would encourage anyone living or holidaying on boats to ensure that they protect themselves by checking that their boat is fitted with both working smoke alarms and carbon monoxide detectors.”

For more safety information visit www.boatsafetyscheme.org/co

 

 

 

As MJG might have been thinking too, its all fine and dandy to hand down from on high advice such as this, but can you confirm Mr Reuben failed to comply with least one of these recommendations, and if so, which one(s) please?

 

Or did he comply with them all? In which case how did his demise come about?

 

One thing I feel driven to try to get from all tragedies is a clear understanding of what exactly happened. In most cases a detailed explanation is never published and I find this insanely frustrating.

 

Why are those in a position to know (e.g. Rob@BSSoffice) so coy about stating the cause, e.g. Mr Reuben died because his stove was alight, his air vents were all sealed over with newspaper and there were no CO alarms installed. This would have so much more impact than the list of anodyne recommendations above in my opinion.

 

My condolences to Mr Reuben's family and friends.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[mrsmelly]

I know that it is sheer common sense to fit fire and CO alarms but is there any reason why these devices could not be made compulsory as part of the BSS inspection?, if it saved just one life then surely a device that does not cost a Kings ransom has done its job.

 

Hi

 

It would appear a good idea if taken quickly and in isolation but that kind of legislation rarely works as many of us are just plain stupid. There are many examples that could be quoted but lets take an easy one. For years now there has been a product sold in the UK that legislation states had to have a public health warning on the packet it does in fact on many packets state " Smoking Kills " it is the only product in the country you can buy that states this FACT some products give health warnings but non that strongly. Yet how many still smoke? you couldnt make it up and it makes the deaths from carbon monoxide absolutely tiny.

 

Tim

[Guest]

As MJG might have been thinking too,

........this is exactly what I was thinking. The article is full of lots of stuff, talking ventilation, appliances and then engine fumes too. But nothing of real clarity like in the recent 'Windermere deaths'.

 

It would be useful to know and see something a bit more constructive than just 'fit a CO alarm' which we all know save lives.

Edited March 16, 2016 by MJG

[MtB]

........this is exactly what I was thinking. The article is full of lots of stuff, talking ventilation, appliances and then engine fumes too. But nothing of real clarity like in the recent 'Windermere deaths'.

 

It would be useful to know and so something a bit more constructive than just 'fit a CO alarm' which we all know save lives.

 

 

Good. I was wary of appearing to put words in your mouth so glad I got it about right!

 

I too was thinking of the Windermere deaths, where it was clearly stated the generator exhaust extension (fitted contrary to manuafacturers instructions) came addrift because it was soldered copper and the exhaust heat melted the solder, combined with prior disconnection of the CO alarms fitted in the boat. Nice and clear, and everyone understands what went wrong. Unlike in this case and most others.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[Geoff Taylor]

 

Hi

 

It would appear a good idea if taken quickly and in isolation but that kind of legislation rarely works as many of us are just plain stupid. There are many examples that could be quoted but lets take an easy one. For years now there has been a product sold in the UK that legislation states had to have a public health warning on the packet it does in fact on many packets state " Smoking Kills " it is the only product in the country you can buy that states this FACT some products give health warnings but non that strongly. Yet how many still smoke? you couldnt make it up and it makes the deaths from carbon monoxide absolutely tiny.

 

Tim

 

Hi Tim,

The deaths may be tiny and if they can be reduced even more then something will have been accomplished, smokers choose to risk the warnings that their health may suffer and die as an individual but ignorance of poisoning by CO can wipe out a whole family.

[Texasboater]

The accident in this instance was on a Dawncraft. Was the Windermere incident also on a GRP vessel and if so are these type of boats more prone to this kind of thing?

[churchward]

The accident in this instance was on a Dawncraft. Was the Windermere incident also on a GRP vessel and if so are these type of boats more prone to this kind of thing?

I doubt it is the fact that it is a GRP boat that makes it more likely (if it is at all) but that a GRP boat ha probably less volume of air space in it than a most narrowboats say. So, any ingress of a collection of toxic gases are going to get to a poisonous level quicker than in a room/boat with a greater volume.

[Texasboater]

Thought that might be the case Churchward. I wonder also about relative ventilation. high & low on Cabin Cruisers and the fact that many of them were not factory fitted with heating. I would imagine after market heating systems need to be very carefully installed.

[MtB]

The accident in this instance was on a Dawncraft. Was the Windermere incident also on a GRP vessel and if so are these type of boats more prone to this kind of thing?

 

 

We have no way of knowing while explanations of the deaths are withheld.

[Texasboater]

 

 

We have no way of knowing while explanations of the deaths are withheld.

Fairy nuff. Wonder why that is? Coroners report may explain.

[patty-ann]

Without facts we can only speculate..it would be useful to all to know what happened so that tragedies may be prevented in the future and lessons learnt without judging actions of an individual. This must be distressing for the family and my sympathies are with them, they may not want events public but for the greater good it would be helpful to know what went wrong

Hopefully more facts will be published.

[Mike Todd]

........this is exactly what I was thinking. The article is full of lots of stuff, talking ventilation, appliances and then engine fumes too. But nothing of real clarity like in the recent 'Windermere deaths'.

 

It would be useful to know and see something a bit more constructive than just 'fit a CO alarm' which we all know save lives.

Do we know whether the inquest did not have this information. Useful though it may be to many of us likely to be affected, it may have just to mundane to interested a reporter hastily trying to meet a deadline. MIAB (like AAIB and the same for trains, can't remember its acronym) publish reports that are fascinating - in a sometimes macabre sort of way - and give incredible detail that at times leads directly to safety improvements. Coroners are not always as thorough or objective (viz Harecastle). The MIAB, on the few occasions when I have studied them, confine their 'recommendations' to that which is feasible rather than indulge in the public's usual 'they must make sure this never happens again' pointless remark. Politicians, especially when they haven't a clue about what to do, resort to this as well. As MtB has hinted, safety improvements - somewhat sadly - frequently come in the wake of a real tragedy. Committees sitting around and trying to imagine all the possible risks and write a 'risk assessment' can be responsible for the very rare cases of regulations that are unnecessarily weighty.

[Alan de Enfield]

Whilst making 'things' mandatory does not ensure that they are 'used', including the installation of a Co alarm into the BSS would be more sensible and a better aid to safety than ensuring that the water and diesel tank fillers are correctly marked.

 

"Over 30 people have been killed by carbon monoxide in the last 20 years" - I wonder how many have been killed by putting water in the diesel tank (or vice versa).

 

You cannot legislate against stupidity or complete disregard for the rules, & whilst there is no guarantee that the alarms will be switched on, or replaced at the due date surely if one life is saved its worth the £20 investment.

 

BSS have an opportunity to make a serious improvement in safety - don't' 'miss the boat'.

[Dave Payne]

First thing i did when buying my boat, fit two alarms, £20 is a no brainer....

 

Vidar was an ex hire boat, but had none fitted, it had the fire blanket and first aid kit so not sure if they just removed the alarms when putting up for sale, but i would have thought a hire boat must have them fitted??

[MtB]

As MtB has hinted, safety improvements - somewhat sadly - frequently come in the wake of a real tragedy. Committees sitting around and trying to imagine all the possible risks and write a 'risk assessment' can be responsible for the very rare cases of regulations that are unnecessarily weighty.

 

 

Yes and the BSS is an excellent example of this happening. As Alan points out it contains trivialities that bear no relation to serious safety issues.

 

It would be most informative to see a reference attached to each requirement in the BSS, indicating the actual incident leading to the decision to have the requirement. I very much doubt there is any instance of death or serious injury resulting from missing labeling for example.

 

Even gas locker labeling is pretty pointless in my view. in the event of the emergency services being called to a boat they do not rely on labeling to find out if there are gas bottles, and where they are. Common sense gets used.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[Machpoint005]

 

 

Yes and the BSS is an excellent example of this happening. As Alan points out it contains trivialities that bear no relation to serious safety issues.

 

It would be most informative to see a reference attached to each requirement in the BSS, indicating the actual incident leading to the decision to have the requirement. I very much doubt there is any instance of death or serious injury resulting from missing labeling for example.

 

Even gas locker labeling is pretty pointless in my view. in the event of the emergency services being called to a boat they do not rely on labeling to find out if there are gas bottles, and where they are. Common sense gets used.

 

I don't disagree that common sense is the first thing to be applied by the emergency services, but it must be some help if the locker they go to as a result of common sense or experience has a label that confirms it actually worth them lifting the lid?

 

The battery isolator switch could be in a variety of locations so a label is definitely a help there.

[blackrose]

 

It would be most informative to see a reference attached to each requirement in the BSS, indicating the actual incident leading to the decision to have the requirement. I very much doubt there is any instance of death or serious injury resulting from missing labeling for example.

 

 

Mmm... I'm not sure that we really require death or serious injury to occur before we mandate common sense requirements such as labelling that may help to prevent smaller mistakes or accidents.

 

Even gas locker labeling is pretty pointless in my view. in the event of the emergency services being called to a boat they do not rely on labeling to find out if there are gas bottles, and where they are. Common sense gets used.

 

I have several lockers on my boat - at the bow and the stern - each capable of containing a gas bottle. How would common sense quickly know which was which without a label?

 

My version of common sense tells me that the quickest and easiest way for most literate people to differentiate is by reading a label.

Edited March 17, 2016 by blackrose

[mrsmelly]

 

Mmm... I'm not sure that we really require death or serious injury to occur before we mandate common sense requirements such as labelling that may help to prevent smaller mistakes or accidents.

 

I have several lockers on my boat - at the bow and the stern - each capable of containing a gas bottle. How would common sense quickly know which was which without a label?

 

My version of common sense tells me that the quickest and easiest way for most literate people to differentiate is by reading a label.

 

I certainly agree with this re labeling. As a for instance a hell of a lot of boats have their gas bottles in the pointy end in front of cratch board if fitted so thats were most would think mine are but they are not.

 

Tim