Lockgate Refleks stove - lighting

[Monsoon merchant]

Hi

 

We haven't used this stove much, but when we have, we have lit it how Lockgate told us to:

 

Add a small amount of meths and light.

 

Leave to burn for a minute or two to warm the stove.

 

Finally, start to add the diesel (between 1 and 2).

 

This has always worked fine, but trying to test the stove today there has been a problem. The meths lights okay, but as soon as I shut the top lid, it goes out. I have tried several times, with no joy. I have cleaned out the burner pot, so I am sure all that was in there was meths, but it still wouldn't burn. It's like it's not getting any air?

 

Any bright ideas as to why this might be happening?

 

Thanks.

[koukouvagia]

Have you checked whether diesel is flowing into the bottom of the burner? Turn the diesel on and without lighting the stove, watch to see if the diesel pools. You should be able to see the diesel gradually spread out.

If the diesel is not flowing check that the filter isn't blocked. It's quite likely to be gunged up - especially if it hasn't been used for a while.

 

Have you checked the flue? That also could be blocked. As a temporary measure see what happens if you remove the cleaner rod and wedge open the lid slightly. Note only do this for a very short time to avoid CO entering the cabin.

 

If it still goes out then I suspect that the diesel in the pipe leading to the regulator is either contaminated, or more likely, has collected condensation. You'll need to undo this and clean it out.

 

If none of the above work, report back and I can then suggest some less likely causes.

Edited July 24, 2015 by koukouvagia

[Monsoon merchant]

Thanks for those suggestions.

 

I will have a look at the flue.

 

I'm wondering how it can be a diesel problem though, as it is the meths that is failing to stay alight - previously it has burnt quite happily for a couple of minutes on its own before I have even touched the diesel control?

[koukouvagia]

Point taken. It does seem to suggest lack of ventilation.

Have you checked yet the small holes round the rim of the burner pot and the holes in the sides of it? These can easily become clogged and are easily overlooked.

 

By the way, you don't need meths to light a Reflex. I just turn on the diesel, wait for a few seconds and then chuck in a lighted piece of paper (or I use a spill).

Edited July 24, 2015 by koukouvagia

[Midnight Rider]

I used to turn the diesel on & then put a small piece of fire lighter down the pot. Set fire & away you go.

[starman]

Like koukouvagia I just turn fuel on, wait 15 secs or so to form a small pool, turn off fuel, lob match in (or more than one if you're off target, lights oil. Allow this to burn until properly heated - flame goes red/blue rather than yellow smokey. Then turn fuel back on to low setting - just above pilot on ours.

Works a lot better than meths or fire lighters. I've never found the meths technique very good - it either goes 'whump' or goes out.

[Wilf]

We bought a narrrowboat yesterday! It has a Lockgate Reflecks 2000 diesel stove dating from 2006. The previous owner did leave lighting instructions, but we have not had too much success. We used meths as instructed and turned the fuel supply on, but it just burns with a smokey yellow flame for a few minutes then goes out. I am sure we are going to be advised to clean out the insides- so any advice on this would be welcome. I have attached a picture with the inner cage removed. one further question based on other posts- what happens to all the debris people seem happy to throw in?

[canalboat]

What does one cost new?

[cuthound]

How much fuel do you let into the bottom before trying to light it?

I have a Kabola Old Dutch,  which is very similar, and run in enough oil to cover a 50p piece. Too much oil gives the symptoms you describe.

Pour in 2 capfuls of meths and light it with a dropped matchbox wax taper.

Let it burn until the meths has just about gone out. This warms the flue.

Then set the regulator to setting No.2 and hold in the flame failure device for 90.seconds, then release. 

Leave the regulator alone for 15 minutes before adjusting it. 

The flames (viewed through the window) should be blue, unless the setting is above setting No.3 when they begin to go yellow.

If you still have issues with yellow flames you will need to set up the regulator.

Details in this thread.

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by cuthound
Spillung

[Bargebuilder]

I have a Taylor's pot burning diesel heater and lighting it is always exciting.

I squirt in about a tablespoon full of diesel (or kerosene) using a garden hand sprayer, use a small butane blow torch to heat the chamber from underneath until white diesel vapour begins to rise, and then aim the blow torch into the access hole at the front. After the explosion subsides, the combustion chamber is nicely alight.

The whole process takes just seconds, but it will terify the cat and possibly the wife and you may lose your eyebrows!      I wouldn't do it any other way........

[koukouvagia]

Your problems are almost certainly because the fire needs a service.

Have you seen this? 

 

Once the Refleks is clean and properly adjusted you shouldn't need to faff around with complicated lighting procedures.

Just turn the fuel on; wait until diesel spreads over the burner pot; chuck in a twist of lighted paper.  Simple.

 

[Ex Brummie]

Diesel stoves can be difficult to light if the combustion chamber is closed off immediately. The only combustion air that it can get is through the burner base, and if the flue is preheated, then it will 'lift' the flame from the fuel. If you leave the door or top loose for a few minutes, then the diesel has the chance to reach vaporising temperature, so this is what burns instead of neat fuel.

[frahkn]

7 hours ago, Wilf said:

We bought a narrrowboat yesterday! It has a Lockgate Reflecks 2000 diesel stove dating from 2006. The previous owner did leave lighting instructions, but we have not had too much success. We used meths as instructed and turned the fuel supply on, but it just burns with a smokey yellow flame for a few minutes then goes out. I am sure we are going to be advised to clean out the insides- so any advice on this would be welcome. I have attached a picture with the inner cage removed. one further question based on other posts- what happens to all the debris people seem happy to throw in?

 

My Refleks is from 2003 and needs a service, it burns a little yellow but stays lit and provides lots of heat. The following always gets it lit - you might as well try it.

Make quite sure your flue is not blocked.

Take the cage out.

Turn the diesel on about quarter way.

Wait till the 'floor' of the stove is about 50% covered with diesel.

Turn the diesel off.

Pour in a generous slosh of meths.

Put the cage back and carefully drop a match in to light the meths.

When the meths is lit very slowly close the top.

Wait 60 seconds and turn the diesel back to a quarter.

Watch the stove for 15 minutes (don't open the top), the main risk is that it will get too hot, if so turn it down by slight increments only.

Obviously if it needs servicing you will have to have it done but so does mine - nevertheless this always lights it.

 

[johnmck]

I asked the same question a few years ago and was advised of a maths free  method, which never fails.

Cut a kitchen towel into strips about the length and width of a finger. Remove the cage then place one end of a strip towards the fuel entry, the other end aligned towards the centre of the pot. Turn on the fuel and once a third to a half of the strip is soaked in fuel, switch off the supply, ignite with a gas wand, replace the cage and close up.

After a few minutes, switch the fuel back on and the jobs done. This sometimes needs monitoring to avoid over fuelling. 

This method has worked every time for me. No dramas with meths! 

[Bargebuilder]

Maths to light a stove..... a calculated risk?

For my last boat I chose the Dickinson diesel heater over the Refleks and it proved to be super easy to light and control. I soon discovered that the kitchen towel method described above worked best, but I used to wrap a single square around to form a wine glass shape, so that the diesel soaked tissue stood up and didn't rest on the walls. I would often prime the chamber and drop in the kitchen towel just before leaving the boat, so that when I returned the following weekend, all I had to do was to light it and wait a while for it to heat up.

It took me a while to realise that keeping the combustion chamber too clean was a bad thing. So long as the fuel entry and air inlet holes are clear, a generous coating of soot around the walls and base actually helps. 

The Dickinson has a big glass viewing door so that the flickering blue/yellow flames are clearly visible and create a warm cosy ambience in the cabin; perfect!

[Robbo]

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

Maths to light a stove..... a calculated risk?

For my last boat I chose the Dickinson diesel heater over the Refleks and it proved to be super easy to light and control. I soon discovered that the kitchen towel method described above worked best, but I used to wrap a single square around to form a wine glass shape, so that the diesel soaked tissue stood up and didn't rest on the walls. I would often prime the chamber and drop in the kitchen towel just before leaving the boat, so that when I returned the following weekend, all I had to do was to light it and wait a while for it to heat up.

It took me a while to realise that keeping the combustion chamber too clean was a bad thing. So long as the fuel entry and air inlet holes are clear, a generous coating of soot around the walls and base actually helps. 

The Dickinson has a big glass viewing door so that the flickering blue/yellow flames are clearly visible and create a warm cosy ambience in the cabin; perfect!

Bit off-topic, but what made you go for the Dickinson rather than the Reflek?

[Ex Brummie]

I would have thought a layer of soot around the pot would have been detrimental to efficient combustion, as it would impair the heat build up in the pot that is required for efficient vaporisation. Clean pots and catalysers make them so much better.

[Bargebuilder]

I chose the Dickinson because it had been recommended to me by a friend who had one. I had mine for about 12 years before I sold the boat and it worked perfectly for all of that time. It was easy to light, easy to control and reliable in use with an impressive heat output, but the best thing was the big glass door in the front through which the flames could be viewed. It was like a mini wood burning stove emitting a warm flickering light into the cabin.

I am a bit obsessive about cleaning things, and even bought a miniature 12v vacuum to regularly clean the pot. I would take it all apart and wipe it down, but I couldn't understand why mine wasn't as easy to light as my friends. It wasn't until I was advised to neglect it a bit that I realised that the sooty coating was aiding the lighting process, possibly by helping to wick the fuel up the sides of the chamber. It is wicked fuel that initially lights, with vaporisation only kicking in after a couple of minutes. 

It is great to have a heater that thrives on neglect, especially as cleaning the soot out of the combustion chamber is a very mucky job. The layer of soot made no perceptible difference at all to the output.

I'd swap my current Taylor's diesel heater for a Dickinson any time.

 

[frygood]

mine does the same.i just make sure the lid isn't closed fully so it gets air.when its got nice and hot i close it then.

[Robbo]

12 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

I chose the Dickinson because it had been recommended to me by a friend who had one.

Thanks for the reply, I’ve recently just ordered one as I prefer the style of the Antarctic over the Reflek.

 

[Bargebuilder]

I had the Dickinson Newport bulkhead mounted. 

Just for your possible interest, using my kitchen towel lighting technique, I almost never used the electric fan, because this method usually provides enough up-draught to overcome the 'weight' of the cold air in the chimney.

Really great heater, you won't be disappointed.

[Robbo]

I’ve got a day tank so can be gravity fed.  Looking to get a small diesel pump so can transfer from the main tank.   How does one plumb this together without overfilling the day tank when running the pump?

[David Mack]

Have an overflow pipe running back to the main tank?

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Have an overflow pipe running back to the main tank?

That’s what i visioned, but I’m also visioning the diesel to exit via the vent which would be a much shorter path.

[cuthound]

55 minutes ago, Robbo said:

I’ve got a day tank so can be gravity fed.  Looking to get a small diesel pump so can transfer from the main tank.   How does one plumb this together without overfilling the day tank when running the pump?

My boat has this. It is a purely manual operation, requiring 2 people.

Day tanks on commercial generator sets use float switches to control the pump automatically so they can run continuously until the bulk tanks are empty.