Railings for Marple aqueduct - whats next?

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Not entirely. CRT would only be to blame if they ignored precursor incidents of people being in danger of accidentally falling. They wouldn't be to blame in the event of an isolated incident of recklessness. That would be misadventure.

 

What about the bridge at Stourport where the kid died?

 

Separate post

I just crossed Chirk Aqueduct today, that looks ripe for the treatment

Edited December 23, 2017 by ditchcrawler

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

What about the bridge at Stourport where the kid died?

Coroner recorded accidental death. HSE investigation concluded BWB risk assessment neither safe nor sufficient.

The bridge at Stourport was provided for use with no restriction to the public yet lacked features normally associated with footbridges that any reasonable person would recognise are provided for safety purposes. The risk was blatant hence the HSE conclusion. It's also entirely possible there was some history between the HSE and BWB regarding these particular bridges on the S&W. That's often the case where HSE take enforcement action. They will state concerns in routine dialogue but can't take legal action without evidence.

At Marple the area is not openly accessible to the public and the risk therefore isn't obvious hence the questioning as to whether it even exists. The burden on CRT is quite different and the threshold for negligence on their part somewhat different to Stourport.

JP

[DHutch]

'Woven' railings? I have made my thoughts on the addition of railings fairly clear previously. However if you where going to add railings surely a uncluttered more period looking railing would be far more suitable.

I wasn't overwhelmed by how they where cut into the existing towpath, however the railings at Worcester Bar where much more appropriate I would say.

 

Daniel

 

[alan_fincher]

42 minutes ago, DHutch said:

'Woven' railings? I have made my thoughts on the addition of railings fairly clear previously. However if you where going to add railings surely a uncluttered more period looking railing would be far more suitable.

I wasn't overwhelmed by how they where cut into the existing towpath, however the railings at Worcester Bar where much more appropriate I would say.

 

Yes, this.................................................................................................................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[furnessvale]

1 hour ago, DHutch said:

'Woven' railings? I have made my thoughts on the addition of railings fairly clear previously. However if you where going to add railings surely a uncluttered more period looking railing would be far more suitable.

I wasn't overwhelmed by how they where cut into the existing towpath, however the railings at Worcester Bar where much more appropriate I would say.

It would be interesting to find out the cost of Gas Street compared to Marple, especially the design costs.

George

[magpie patrick]

5 hours ago, DHutch said:

'Woven' railings? I have made my thoughts on the addition of railings fairly clear previously. However if you where going to add railings surely a uncluttered more period looking railing would be far more suitable.

I wasn't overwhelmed by how they where cut into the existing towpath, however the railings at Worcester Bar where much more appropriate I would say.

 

Daniel

 

Also, those were in part because of security issues - jump the gap and you are onto a private mooring not otherwise readily accessible to the public

[alan_fincher]

3 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Also, those were in part because of security issues - jump the gap and you are onto a private mooring not otherwise readily accessible to the public

Well it is throughout the day, (simply cross the bridge).  They are only closed off at night, of course.

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, furnessvale said:

It would be interesting to find out the cost of Gas Street compared to Marple, especially the design costs.

George

Well if they had used that design at Marple the cost would be zero, because they already have the design

[Machpoint005]

21 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well if they had used that design at Marple the cost would be zero, because they already have the design

Not quite -- the drawings would still need to show the correct length, as well as the mounting details!

[furnessvale]

On 24/12/2017 at 22:03, Machpoint005 said:

Not quite -- the drawings would still need to show the correct length, as well as the mounting details!

When I said "design" I was really thinking about the fancy flair with all the bulls**t  about weaving yarn etc.

Your average drawing office technician would knock out working drawings using a standard fence design for comparative peanuts.

George

[Machpoint005]

5 hours ago, furnessvale said:

When I said "design" I was really thinking about the fancy flair with all the bulls**t  about weaving yarn etc.

Your average drawing office technician would knock out working drawings using a standard fence design for comparative peanuts.

George

I agree, but I would still call it design.

The contractors wouldn't be able to work from sketches on the back of a beermat! 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

I agree, but I would still call it design.

The contractors wouldn't be able to work from sketches on the back of a beermat! 

Just take the Birmingham drawings and say I want 150 feet or what ever it is of it.

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

The contractors wouldn't be able to work from sketches on the back of a beermat! 

 

Contractors possibly not, but I bet the old BW in-house maintenance staff would have been more than capable of making a decent set of railings from beermat sketches,indeed happy to!

[furnessvale]

5 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

I agree, but I would still call it design.

The contractors wouldn't be able to work from sketches on the back of a beermat! 

OK, I'll separate out the preparation of a working drawing of the new railings in the location, and arty farty 12 people sitting round a large oak table for a week throwing concepts into the ring, thinking outside the box, pushing the envelope and whatever else they call it these days.

Now, I wonder how much the second half of my sentence cost?

George

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, furnessvale said:

OK, I'll separate out the preparation of a working drawing of the new railings in the location, and arty farty 12 people sitting round a large oak table for a week throwing concepts into the ring, thinking outside the box, pushing the envelope and whatever else they call it these days.

Now, I wonder how much the second half of my sentence cost?

George

Blue sky thinking.

[mayalld]

31 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Blue sky thinking.

Ah yes, being paid mega-buck for gazing vacantly at the sky.

 

[Mike Todd]

23 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just take the Birmingham drawings and say I want 150 feet or what ever it is of it.

Most motorways have what to the uninitiated look like identikit bridges and assume that one design was used for them all.

Well, yes as far as general appearance is concerned but from an engineering point of view each one has to be designed individually to take into account the specific location, ground levels and conditions, different purposes for the bridge and so on.

In the case of Listed structures, Historic England and the local planning officers will require that the design is individually tailored, not just for engineering reasons, but also heritage ones as well. Each viaduct, or location requiring a set of railings, will itself have been separately designed, possible generations apart. Even if the client says, "Can I have one like this one?" that is far from the end of the matter. This is not a lot to do with CaRT or any other owner of a listed building/structure - who just has to follow the rules. It's called a democracy - the majority get to decide the rules for the minority . . . 

[ditchcrawler]

42 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Most motorways have what to the uninitiated look like identikit bridges and assume that one design was used for them all.

Well, yes as far as general appearance is concerned but from an engineering point of view each one has to be designed individually to take into account the specific location, ground levels and conditions, different purposes for the bridge and so on.

In the case of Listed structures, Historic England and the local planning officers will require that the design is individually tailored, not just for engineering reasons, but also heritage ones as well. Each viaduct, or location requiring a set of railings, will itself have been separately designed, possible generations apart. Even if the client says, "Can I have one like this one?" that is far from the end of the matter. This is not a lot to do with CaRT or any other owner of a listed building/structure - who just has to follow the rules. It's called a democracy - the majority get to decide the rules for the minority . . . 

I wonder what English Heritage thought of this design

 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I wonder what English Heritage thought of this design

 

 

Who elected English Heritage anyway?

[ditchcrawler]

29 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Who elected English Heritage anyway?

The same people that voted CRT in to run the inland waterways

[Mike Todd]

18 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I wonder what English Heritage thought of this design

 

I would have expected that they had to approve it, assuming it is Listed.

15 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Who elected English Heritage anyway?

We really don't want to go down the US route where every town hall post us elected and changes each time. Not the best way to run things that do need some expertise.

[alan_fincher]

18 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I wonder what English Heritage thought of this design

 

15 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Who elected English Heritage anyway?

Strictly I think "English Heritage" became "Historic England" a couple of years back.

The CRT link I posted clearly states.......
 

Quote

Both Scheduled Monument Consent from Historic England and Planning Permission from Stockport Council were granted in June 2017.

 

Whether that means the actual design now announced was available to them in June isn't made clear though, I suggest.  Presumably though they have to approve it?

[magpie patrick]

4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Strictly I think "English Heritage" became "Historic England" a couple of years back.

The CRT link I posted clearly states.......
 

 

Whether that means the actual design now announced was available to them in June isn't made clear though, I suggest.  Presumably though they have to approve it?

They do, but unless they have a specialist on the case they will be in a corner, hard put to question a "risk assessment" saying it's needed and faced with a load of histobabble about "referencing" the heritage of the structure. It would have to be truly appalling to turn it down unless the Historic England officer is actually a specialist in early 19th century canal structures. 

[Pluto]

Resurrecting an old thread, I just found this drawing of Marple Aqueduct, http://george3.splrarebooks.com/collection/view/TO-THE-GENTLEMEN-OF-THE-PEAK-FOREST-CANAL-COMPANY-This-View-of-the-AQUEDUCT

Did packet boats work on the Peak Forest?

[billh]

22 minutes ago, Pluto said:

 

Did packet boats work on the Peak Forest

A lot of interesting info if you read up about Isaac Watt Boulton, in  "Chronicles of Boulton's Siding" Apparently he bought up some surplus boats from the Forth & Clyde Canal and operated them on the Peak Forest with a passenger & goods service from Dog Lane Railway Station in Dukinfield on the incomplete Sheffield Ashton & Manchester Railway, to Marple and beyond. Passengers were expected to change boats at Marple to avoid delays on the locks with a walk up or down the flight. There was a hotel at the bottom of Marple flight with overnight accommodation available.The service did not exist for long once railways were completed in the area.

I. W. Boulton was related to the steam engine builder in Birmingham. His premises in Ashton Under Lyne eventually became the National Gas & Oil Engine Company works where our beloved National D2s were made. Much of the " Nash" still exists but subdivided into units.