Buying from a Broker/Owner

[Richardcn]

Hi all

 

Should one take a different approach to buying (price/offers, survey etc etc) when the 'Broker' is also the Owner of the boat? What implications, if any, does this have?

 

Regards

Richard & Paula

[Alan de Enfield]

If the boat is being 'sold in the course of a business' then there are a whole host of legal implications - as far as the buyer is concerned the main one being that the the Trades Description Legislation applies - this means that :

 

It must be fit for purpose.

It must be as described.

 

If the boat 'fails' these tests then you can sue the seller to

1) rectify the problems

2) get your money back

 

If you are buying from a private seller, or a broker (that does not own the boat) then once you have paid your money you have no comeback at all.

[Richardcn]

If the boat is being 'sold in the course of a business' then there are a whole host of legal implications - as far as the buyer is concerned the main one being that the the Trades Description Legislation applies - this means that :

 

It must be fit for purpose.

It must be as described.

 

If the boat 'fails' these tests then you can sue the seller to

1) rectify the problems

2) get your money back

 

If you are buying from a private seller, or a broker (that does not own the boat) then once you have paid your money you have no comeback at all.

Thanks.

 

Well that's all good then. But should one approach the purchase differently? Also, is the Broker/Owner required to declare, in the advert, that they own the boat. As I see it all advertising appears to imply Brokerage (although not specifically to any boat) thus should any Broker owned boats be highlighted as such? It's not that I have an issue at all, I'd just like to be fully informed of how it affects things, if at all, with regards to purchasing.

 

Regards

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

It should be declared if a boat is owned by the brokerage.

 

This is one area that Whilton is very poor - they deny that boats are owned by them to avoid having to honour the Trades Descriptions Act.

 

Yard staff will tell you - "we took this in part exchange", or "we bought this one", but the sales office will deny it.

 

 

 

I would suggest that your negotiations are in no way different - you will only pay what it is worth to you (won't you ?)

If you not happy to make your own mind up, you will want a survey irrespective of who is selling it.

You make the offer and they accept/decline it without having to refer it to 'the owner' so - it may be a little quicker, that's all.

[MtB]

Thanks.

 

Well that's all good then. But should one approach the purchase differently? Also, is the Broker/Owner required to declare, in the advert, that they own the boat. As I see it all advertising appears to imply Brokerage (although not specifically to any boat) thus should any Broker owned boats be highlighted as such? It's not that I have an issue at all, I'd just like to be fully informed of how it affects things, if at all, with regards to purchasing.

 

Regards

Richard

 

I don't think they are. There is one broker (Whilton) with a widespread reputation for passing off boats owned by them directly as being sold 'on brokerage'. I'd ask some very searching questions if I were you about proof of ownership should you buy a boat purporting to be a brokerage sale.

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

I am fairly sure that at the bottom of any boat (on brokerage) sales details there should be a paragraph (for example) explaining the situation.

 

Particulars given are subject to confirmation by buyer. In this case we are acting as brokers only. The Vendor is not selling in the course of a business. Whilst every care has been taken in their preparation, the correctness of these particulars is not guaranteed. The particulars are intended only as a guide and they do not constitute a term of any contract. A prospective buyer is strongly advised to check the particulars. Where appropriate at his own expense to employ a qualified Marine Surveyor to carry out a survey, and/or to have an engine trial conducted, which if conducted by us shall not imply any liability for such engines on our part.

 

Whilton do not appear to have ay such statements on their boat details.

Sales of Goods Act 1979 if the boat is owned by the 'trader'.

 

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/shropshire/con1item.cgi?file=*adv0043-1011.txt

[bigste]

Also I would have thought that a broker owned boat would be dearer due to having to charge VAT on the whole price rather than on just the brokerage fee. I suspect that certain brokers may circumnavigate that bit, somehow.

[kevinl]

Also I would have thought that a broker owned boat would be dearer due to having to charge VAT on the whole price rather than on just the brokerage fee. I suspect that certain brokers may circumnavigate that bit, somehow.

I thought that too, presumably as there is no proof of ownership as such them I guess you've have to contact the previous owner. Luck I'm not a VAT inspector.

K

[Richardcn]

It was from reading this forum last year that I picked up the tip of asking directly 'Who owns the boat?'. As the salesman that I posed the question to didn't answer straight away, his boss (I assume) stepped in to confirm ownership (but glances were exchanged I thought). Still, I can't complain, they were honest. It's nice to know that, having admitted ownership, a broker hands the buyer some form of rights and recourse and also a speedier buying process (well the offer part anyway), although now you need good bartering skills as you are up against a dealer rather than just another owner. Any advice on the best approach in this respect guys (the non-sexist form)?

[Richardcn]

Another aspect of this is access to history and records. With an owner you would at least have a good chance of seeing the boat history (and hearing it) but maybe not so with a broker/dealer? I would hope that records are retained and passed on where present but if its anything like the 2nd hand car business then it's unlikely. Does anyone have any experience of this?

 

Regards

Richard & Paula

[Noah T]

It should be declared if a boat is owned by the brokerage.

 

This is one area that Whilton is very poor - they deny that boats are owned by them to avoid having to honour the Trades Descriptions Act.

 

Yard staff will tell you - "we took this in part exchange", or "we bought this one", but the sales office will deny it.

 

 

 

I would suggest that your negotiations are in no way different - you will only pay what it is worth to you (won't you ?)

If you not happy to make your own mind up, you will want a survey irrespective of who is selling it.

You make the offer and they accept/decline it without having to refer it to 'the owner' so - it may be a little quicker, that's all.

 

Whilton is not the only boat yard that utilises this pretence. When I bought my boat from Gayton Marina last year, the staff persisted in going through the rigmarole of referring to the (mysterious) owner of the boat, although a bit of research on my part had revealed that both the 'broker' and the 'owner' were the one and the same ABC Leisure Group Ltd.

 

Irrespective, it's a good boat and they agreed to sell it for a very decent price .

[Cheshire cat]

In my case the broker had a mountain of documents re the boat but only produced them after I bought.

 

It never occurred to me to ask to see them.

In my case the broker had a mountain of documents re the boat but only produced them after I bought.

 

It never occurred to me to ask to see them.

[fretman]

Buying private and you will not need to pay the 6% they change, private sale and you can see all the past licence tickets and paper work, which a lot of brokerage will not have or pass on, private sellers will tell you a lot more about the boat, how this and that works etc, private every time for me.

[Naughty Cal]

We bought our boat as a stock boat owned by the brokerage. As part of the deal they fixed any problems highlighted in the survey.