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Visitor moorings at Saltaire


Derek Porteous

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About five or six years ago I discussed mooring with the Heritage Site Manager as they were looking to build services next to the car park on the Leeds side of the mill. Offices and a cafe were also proposed in the same development, but the money could not be found to create the new building required. Improved moorings here are definitely being discussed at the moment, and I assume they will be in the place originally suggested where there would be room for around six boats. Some people have suggested this is not enough. Currently, the best mooring in terms of noise, for both moorers and residents, is probably just above Victoria Bridge, though the banking is not too good and depth variable. We do moor Kennet next to the bridge when attending events, and I can confirm that it is windy there, and depth is also variable.

 

Having signs prohibiting anything on the canal will always be like a red rag to a bull. People need to think positively, ie providing suitable moorings, rather than negatively with prohibition.

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  • 1 year later...

Hello All

As a resident in the flats the case is simple. The moorings are new and built since the flats were built. Due to the "canyon" nature of the moorings those that run their engines for hours to charge batteries not only cause noise but pollute appartments. Not to mention the smoke from wood burners entering through an open window. Or those that talk happily into the small hours when some of us still have to work! Residents welcome boats as it enhances our village - just the occasional boater on holiday that disturb the 97 bedrooms and living rooms in very close proximity to the canal. This is a pity for all. C&RT have worked with Residents and new moorings have been created just a few metres further along the canal. This is not a case of who came first or money talking, after all if we did not live here there would be nothing to visit, this is a case of adapting and living together - both making adjustments for the benefit of all.

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22 minutes ago, Mr Grumpy said:

Hello All

As a resident in the flats the case is simple. The moorings are new and built since the flats were built. Due to the "canyon" nature of the moorings those that run their engines for hours to charge batteries not only cause noise but pollute appartments. Not to mention the smoke from wood burners entering through an open window. Or those that talk happily into the small hours when some of us still have to work! Residents welcome boats as it enhances our village - just the occasional boater on holiday that disturb the 97 bedrooms and living rooms in very close proximity to the canal. This is a pity for all. C&RT have worked with Residents and new moorings have been created just a few metres further along the canal. This is not a case of who came first or money talking, after all if we did not live here there would be nothing to visit, this is a case of adapting and living together - both making adjustments for the benefit of all.

If you don't like boats why buy a property next to a waterway?

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2 minutes ago, leeco said:

If you don't like boats why buy a property next to a waterway?

I've mentioned before on here about the couple who bought a cottage next door to a church not far from where I live. They'd been there a month before they started complaining about the sound of the church bells on a Sunday...

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Just now, WotEver said:

I've mentioned before on here about the couple who bought a cottage next door to a church not far from where I live. They'd been there a month before they started complaining about the sound of the church bells on a Sunday...

Maybe they should look on Rightmove as it has 10000s of properties the choose from.

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45 minutes ago, Mr Grumpy said:

This is not a case of who came first or money talking, after all if we did not live here there would be nothing to visit, this is a case of adapting and living together - both making adjustments for the benefit of all.

Hey wake up you f@@@@it people come to look at world heritage site not some idiot that happens to live in flat in a converted hospital by the canal. 

I asume a member of less than an hour who posts on a thread from a year ago is basically a troll... 

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14 hours ago, Mr Grumpy said:

Hello All

As a resident in the flats the case is simple. The moorings are new and built since the flats were built. Due to the "canyon" nature of the moorings those that run their engines for hours to charge batteries not only cause noise but pollute appartments. Not to mention the smoke from wood burners entering through an open window. Or those that talk happily into the small hours when some of us still have to work! Residents welcome boats as it enhances our village - just the occasional boater on holiday that disturb the 97 bedrooms and living rooms in very close proximity to the canal. This is a pity for all. C&RT have worked with Residents and new moorings have been created just a few metres further along the canal. This is not a case of who came first or money talking, after all if we did not live here there would be nothing to visit, this is a case of adapting and living together - both making adjustments for the benefit of all.

The simple solution would have to do what they do in other residential areas and have no engine running and smokeless fuels signs.  I can still do these activities here just not overnight! 

The signs are unwelcoming to boaters to what should be a nice area, it basically says piss off boaters we don’t want you here.

The residents also moaned about the noise coming from the working mill opposite and lights on in a evening!    If you did not live there the mill would still exist.   It is however a poor visit in my opinion, hardly anything in the mill is regarding the history of Saltaire, just a few shops and a overrated painter!

Edited by Robbo
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At last weekend's open day at Apperley Bridge, the blacksmith made a few new L&LC style mooring rings for Saltaire. As seen in the photo of Clayton-le-Moors, these rings have a movable cross bar. To tie up, all you do is double the mooring line, push the loop through the ring and over the cross piece, and then tie back the loose end onto the boat. You do not need to feed the whole line through the ring, and it makes it much easier and quicker to tie up. Hopefully, more will be installed over time, retaining a useful 'heritage' feature.

Clayton 557.jpg

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Hi All

not a troll, and not trying to be a nimby really.

The newly created moorings have been dredged and thanks for the pictures of the rings..... Hopefully this resolves the issues, makes the boaters feel welcome albeit 30metres further along the tow path and if C&RT could also do the same opposite the Church to create even more space, we can all enjoy our village. The upcoming Festival does have some more historical facts about our village and the Mill is ever expanding and maybe will contain more historical facts and displays.

Just a couple of points from recent posts/replies;-

The excellent visitor moorings were not there when the flats were built - they were added later. If we wanted to start a "who was there first" conversation then get your horses out to tow your boat rather than fossil fuel......!!! :-) this would solve the engine noise issue but probably create a problem with smelly manure! (Yes I am trying to inject some humour) The residents in the converted Mill (not a converted hospital as has been suggested) really welcome boaters and if it was not for the experience of boaters charging batteries for hours on end or having log burners pollute our living rooms/bedrooms or indeed starting a portable generator on the canal tow path to at gone 11pm to effect night time repairs..... some of the real experiences over the years .... of course the VAST majority don't behave this way and therefore spoil the enjoyment for all of us. The acoustics of the "canyon" between the two mill buildings, unfortunately just at the point of the visitor moorings, mean that you can often hear a normal conversation from the towpath from within the apartments - unfortunately engines seem to be exactly at the correct frequency to cause walls to resonate. Given the experiences outlined above, signs asking that engines are not run and no log burners would probably be ignored by that same small minority.

 

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12 minutes ago, Mr Grumpy said:

Hi All

 

not a troll, and not trying to be a nimby really.

 

The newly created moorings have been dredged and thanks for the pictures of the rings..... Hopefully this resolves the issues, makes the boaters feel welcome albeit 30metres further along the tow path and if C&RT could also do the same opposite the Church to create even more space, we can all enjoy our village. The upcoming Festival does have some more historical facts about our village and the Mill is ever expanding and maybe will contain more historical facts and displays.

 

Just a couple of points from recent posts/replies;-

 

The excellent visitor moorings were not there when the flats were built - they were added later. If we wanted to start a "who was there first" conversation then get your horses out to tow your boat rather than fossil fuel......!!! :-) this would solve the engine noise issue but probably create a problem with smelly manure! (Yes I am trying to inject some humour) The residents in the converted Mill (not a converted hospital as has been suggested) really welcome boaters and if it was not for the experience of boaters charging batteries for hours on end or having log burners pollute our living rooms/bedrooms or indeed starting a portable generator on the canal tow path to at gone 11pm to effect night time repairs..... some of the real experiences over the years .... of course the VAST majority don't behave this way and therefore spoil the enjoyment for all of us. The acoustics of the "canyon" between the two mill buildings, unfortunately just at the point of the visitor moorings, mean that you can often hear a normal conversation from the towpath from within the apartments - unfortunately engines seem to be exactly at the correct frequency to cause walls to resonate. Given the experiences outlined above, signs asking that engines are not run and no log burners would probably be ignored by that same small minority.

 

 

 

An all too familiar story; a number of excellent city centre moorings were lost in Lancaster due to similar inconsiderate behaviour by a small minority of boaters.

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1 minute ago, rgreg said:

An all too familiar story; a number of excellent city centre moorings were lost in Lancaster due to similar inconsiderate behaviour by a small minority of boaters.

I always feel it would be better to do something about the minority rather than insist on the majority being inconvenienced/regulated but nobody seems able/willing to take that line.

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11 hours ago, Derek Porteous said:

As a matter of interest, what length of new overnight moorings have been provided? Presumably there is no change to the day only moorings.

I'm interested as to where these new moorings actually are? 

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13 hours ago, Mr Grumpy said:

Hi All

 

not a troll, and not trying to be a nimby really.

 

The newly created moorings have been dredged and thanks for the pictures of the rings..... Hopefully this resolves the issues, makes the boaters feel welcome albeit 30metres further along the tow path and if C&RT could also do the same opposite the Church to create even more space, we can all enjoy our village. The upcoming Festival does have some more historical facts about our village and the Mill is ever expanding and maybe will contain more historical facts and displays.

 

Just a couple of points from recent posts/replies;-

 

The excellent visitor moorings were not there when the flats were built - they were added later. If we wanted to start a "who was there first" conversation then get your horses out to tow your boat rather than fossil fuel......!!! :-) this would solve the engine noise issue but probably create a problem with smelly manure! (Yes I am trying to inject some humour) The residents in the converted Mill (not a converted hospital as has been suggested) really welcome boaters and if it was not for the experience of boaters charging batteries for hours on end or having log burners pollute our living rooms/bedrooms or indeed starting a portable generator on the canal tow path to at gone 11pm to effect night time repairs..... some of the real experiences over the years .... of course the VAST majority don't behave this way and therefore spoil the enjoyment for all of us. The acoustics of the "canyon" between the two mill buildings, unfortunately just at the point of the visitor moorings, mean that you can often hear a normal conversation from the towpath from within the apartments - unfortunately engines seem to be exactly at the correct frequency to cause walls to resonate. Given the experiences outlined above, signs asking that engines are not run and no log burners would probably be ignored by that same small minority.

 

 

 

The same minority would ignore the no overnight mooring signs, and as I said we can still run generators in this area and wood burners in this area but not overnight so you haven’t really gained anything apart from being a place that says fuck of boaters.  

I’ve know boaters that would have stopped in Saltaire, but couldn’t because of the no overnight mooring so they just carried on.  When you have a boat it’s not like a car, when you moor you tend to have been travelling for a while so it’s prob near the end of the day, even if you get to Saltaire early and wanted to visit you don’t want to move the boat again in a unknown area later on.

You could moor along that stretch of canal before the flats were there, may not have been a dedicated visitor mooring but you could have still moored there.

Saltaire is one of the few places I’ve felt unwelcome as a boater, with things dumped on the boat by passes by, dog shit flung on the side of the boat (gladly not mine, and was were these new rings have been placed!) and items stolen from the roof.

I work in the mill, it has a lot of historical and interesting areas which are not available to the public which should be, even if it was just the occasional tour.  To me, Saltaire is basically a bit of let down of what it could be and is spoilt by the snobby attitude from what is proerbly only a minority of people that live there.

It would be interesting to know how much of the residents of the flats give to the canal (like you have to do with the church).  My guess is nothing even though the canal is more historical than than the whole area itself and gives the area just as much value as any building.

Edited by Robbo
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1 hour ago, bearBOATING said:

I'm interested as to where these new moorings actually are? 

Basically a continuation of the current visitor moorings (Leeds side).  My photo shows some boats on the current visitor moorings (which is a rare occurrence!) and one boat on the new ones.

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13 hours ago, Mr Grumpy said:

Hi All

 

not a troll, and not trying to be a nimby really.

 

The newly created moorings have been dredged and thanks for the pictures of the rings..... Hopefully this resolves the issues, makes the boaters feel welcome albeit 30metres further along the tow path and if C&RT could also do the same opposite the Church to create even more space, we can all enjoy our village. The upcoming Festival does have some more historical facts about our village and the Mill is ever expanding and maybe will contain more historical facts and displays.

 

Just a couple of points from recent posts/replies;-

 

The excellent visitor moorings were not there when the flats were built - they were added later. If we wanted to start a "who was there first" conversation then get your horses out to tow your boat rather than fossil fuel......!!! :-) this would solve the engine noise issue but probably create a problem with smelly manure! (Yes I am trying to inject some humour) The residents in the converted Mill (not a converted hospital as has been suggested) really welcome boaters and if it was not for the experience of boaters charging batteries for hours on end or having log burners pollute our living rooms/bedrooms or indeed starting a portable generator on the canal tow path to at gone 11pm to effect night time repairs..... some of the real experiences over the years .... of course the VAST majority don't behave this way and therefore spoil the enjoyment for all of us. The acoustics of the "canyon" between the two mill buildings, unfortunately just at the point of the visitor moorings, mean that you can often hear a normal conversation from the towpath from within the apartments - unfortunately engines seem to be exactly at the correct frequency to cause walls to resonate. Given the experiences outlined above, signs asking that engines are not run and no log burners would probably be ignored by that same small minority.

 

 

 

So we went straight from horses to leisure boaters with quiet modern engines? The working boats with engines never moored there? Workers and people walking by never chatted in the canyon? Boats and boaters have been mooring inbetween the mills for years. I've moored there a few times, a few years back, between the mills, no bother apart from flat dwellers playing classic radio too loud with open windows. I didn't whinge.

When I've bought a house I've visited the area on several occasions at different times of day, to get a proper picture of the area and any possible wildlife or other issues. You didn't show due diligence, now you are complaining. 

I'm not being nimby but..... Is akin to I'm not being racist but..... As an opening gambit, often followed by a nimby/racist comment.

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On 18/08/2014 at 11:45, peterboat said:

The last time I was at Selby it was winter so we had the stove lit One of the flat dwellers asked me to put out my stove and have some consideration for the Flat owners!! Marcus my large GSD told him to get lost!! The chap went round the other boats making the same request, its strange you buy a new flat by a canal then want to change things

 

Peter

A local builder sold housing right beside the railway, they showed residents the timetable, last train was 11.00 pm [now 23.59], but they omitted to tell them that after 11.00pm the coal waggons from Hunterston started and ran till 06.00 am. if you've ever seen these coal waggons, you know why the earth trembles!

PS, I used smokelless fuel when I rented a lower flat and the chimney  leaked, apparently I nearly choked the guy in the flat upstairs, best to choke on woodsmoke than die from SO2 and other fumes of couse. My point is that any fumes going in to widows of flats would be annoying, most folks would keep their windows closed in winter though..

Edited by LadyG
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On 25/08/2017 at 23:10, jonathanA said:

Hey wake up you f@@@@it people come to look at world heritage site not some idiot that happens to live in flat in a converted hospital by the canal. 

I asume a member of less than an hour who posts on a thread from a year ago is basically a troll... 

please don t swear, its not that kind of site.

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Hello All

yes - we'd all like it if the minority had respected nearby homes, sadly a few did/have not and made it harder to co-exist. I suspect that we see this in all areas of life?

The original tow path was relatively narrow between the mills and was all stone so was difficult to moor - especially without making trip hazards and bicycle hazard. Flat owners did do due diligence and mooring was not an issue as rarely anyone moored in this location!. However, the canal started to leak and, with money short, British Waterways used the funds it was going to use to create visitor moorings, in a better location, for this position. They needed to fix the leak urgently and suggested that this (not ideal location) would be OK and assured us boaters were typically very considerate people and would not cause any issues - which to a very large extent was correct!

The newly created moorings, adjacent to the visitor moorings, seem to be able to take 4 boats so is a similar size to the visitor moorings we're talking about. So with the visitor moorings as well this means that overall capacity has been increased. 

The "canyon" effect means that noise really does travel. Quiet unexpectedly you'd be amazed. The geese for example can be especially noisy, even with double glazed windows closed - but none of this proves to be an issue really, in fact it is part of the “character” that comes with living by water as has been pointed out - however over 4 hours of a diesel engine running to charge batteries is really something else – surely we can all agree on this?  BTW should I assume that there advances in the engines used/sound emissions allowed? Some boats seem far more noisy than others?

I'm trying not to be a nimby..... “some of my “best friends” are boaters, some even from different ethnicities, sexual orientation and physical abilities!”….. :-)

 

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19 minutes ago, Mr Grumpy said:

Hello All

 

 

The newly created moorings, adjacent to the visitor moorings, seem to be able to take 4 boats so is a similar size to the visitor moorings we're talking about. So with the visitor moorings as well this means that overall capacity has been increased. 

You could moor here before where the new rings are, it’s pillings all along here so was easy to chain up, socapacity hasn’t really been increased, it’s just now been highlighted!   It’s also right on the towpath, the visitor moorings has the advantage of more pavement so you didn’t feel like towpath walkers are right next to you.   Guessing no one really talked to any boating groups n boaters regarding what makes a nice visitor moorings, this new ringed area is just a tick in the box because of all the complaints regarding lack of proper visitor moorings.   In my opinion Saltaire still has a lack of proper visitor moorings.

The dredging is really the only improvement, let’s hope they’ve done from the ice cream boat to Hirst Lock as well!

i still don’t understand why the moorings were made for not overnight mooring due to a miniority of boaters, oh I do it’s because the reaisidents don’t want scruffy looking boats outside their window.

you haven’t commented on how much the residents put towards the canal like they have to do with the local church.

Edited by Robbo
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9 minutes ago, Mr Grumpy said:

Hello All

yes - we'd all like it if the minority had respected nearby homes, sadly a few did/have not and made it harder to co-exist. I suspect that we see this in all areas of life?

The original tow path was relatively narrow between the mills and was all stone so was difficult to moor - especially without making trip hazards and bicycle hazard. Flat owners did do due diligence and mooring was not an issue as rarely anyone moored in this location!. However, the canal started to leak and, with money short, British Waterways used the funds it was going to use to create visitor moorings, in a better location, for this position. They needed to fix the leak urgently and suggested that this (not ideal location) would be OK and assured us boaters were typically very considerate people and would not cause any issues - which to a very large extent was correct!

The newly created moorings, adjacent to the visitor moorings, seem to be able to take 4 boats so is a similar size to the visitor moorings we're talking about. So with the visitor moorings as well this means that overall capacity has been increased. 

The "canyon" effect means that noise really does travel. Quiet unexpectedly you'd be amazed. The geese for example can be especially noisy, even with double glazed windows closed - but none of this proves to be an issue really, in fact it is part of the “character” that comes with living by water as has been pointed out - however over 4 hours of a diesel engine running to charge batteries is really something else – surely we can all agree on this?  BTW should I assume that there advances in the engines used/sound emissions allowed? Some boats seem far more noisy than others?

I'm trying not to be a nimby..... “some of my “best friends” are boaters, some even from different ethnicities, sexual orientation and physical abilities!”….. :-)

I am still having difficulty with the fact you have insisted on action against all boaters rather than having the offenders "sorted out".

I am also at a loss as to why some  "of the “character” that comes with living by water" is acceptable while other sounds aren't.

I also personally think the fumes through the window is a red herring.  As has been pointed out boaters only burn stoves when it is cold, people (in general) only open windows when it is warm.  If it is too warm when it is cold outside, turn the heating down.

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Hi All

Names/pictures of boats that ran engines and/or made excessive smoke were often passed on by many residents impacted by the inconsiderate behaviours of just a few. C&RT seem powerless to do anything and being penniless seem to have very little funds available anyway. I'd love it if they could take action against the few who spoiled if for all. Especially as we're not trying to inflict inconvenience on all boaters, far from it - but can you suggest how this is done and for it to be effective? The solution to move a mere 30metres ( ie 4 boat lengths) further along the towpath would in this case appear to be OK and cause little real inconvenience..... all that residents wanted resolved was the inconsiderate behaviours - the implemented solutions were devised/suggested/agreed by others as the best way of ensuring peaceful co-existence.

You mention a red herring...... we generally heat our homes with electric storage heaters which are not the most controllable source of heat especially in Spring and Autumn and there are often times when a window needs to be opened or a bedroom/bathroom aired. For those that work this means that it can be left open all day or in an evening upon return from work. This seems to coincide when a log burner or stove is being used on a boat.

If not sure why are you at a loss on the type of noise? The constant drone of an engine running for hours on end is extremely bothersome. Completely different to speach or bird noise. I know this is an opinion shared by many neighbours and not necessarily all people but it is so easily avoided - is there any need to run an engine for hours on end directly outside around 50 living rooms and 75 bedrooms?

Clearly there are many diverse views and perhaps sometimes a working compromise is best all round? - if we all agreed on everything then life would be extremely dull. Perhaps we're never going to completely agree but I'm hoping that the consultative rather than combatative approach taken would mean that we could go for a glass or two at the Boathouse/Fannys/Dont Tell Titus and have a good natured debate? maybe end up have a smile?

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Personally I think stopping at Saltaire for 2 or 3 hours is more than sufficient. We spent a very long week there one afternoon. After walking round looking at the buildings, which interested us for the social/industrial history, having the worst lunch and coffee we've ever had on the "American Diner" widebeam (also known as the Icecream Boat, I think), we looked round the very expensive shops and the Hockney Gallery in the mill, had an expensive coffee and tasteless piece of cake in one of the cafes, then sat by the canal waiting till it was time to get the coach home. 

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