Preparing to make an offer. . . Thoughts? :-)

[towpathrider]

Hi everyone!

 

Boatcat and I are considering making an offer on a boat we viewed yesterday, and as newbies I thought i'd post here to see what those more experienced than us (that's pretty much everyone!) thinks. We've gained so much knowledge from this forum - it's an invaluable resource. We've seen the results of the hull survey in May and they seem good - i know some of you don't put too much faith in surveys though!

 

Here's the link: http://bit.ly/Xb3pPE

 

we'll be cruising most of the time so our main concerns are with the current electric setup which is as follows.

 

300w inverter

8kw beta marine generator (bolted in)

200w (I think) solar panel with mppt charge controller

2 leisure batteries (220ah total)

1 engine battery

1 generator battery

50l calorifier and immersion heater

galvanic isolator

smartgauge

 

I'm quite happy with the solar setup as we should be able to add more panels in the future. However i'm sure we will be needing more batteries and a larger inverter at some point (though 300w will be a good excuse to cut down on our usage)

 

Our main concern is with the immersion heater and calorifier (currently situated under the bed) I know this means we will have to run the generator in order to heat water and this seems like a bit of a waste considering its size. if its a case of running it for a hour a day i suppose that's ok but not sure if that will provide enough hot water for the day, and how economical the thing is.

 

At 8kw it's actually about the same size as the engine - the thing is huge! I'd rather get rid of it at some point and free up space in the boatman's cabin, the only practical use I can see for it is running the washer/dryer.

 

I have heard of people running a 12v immersion heater from a wind turbine/excess solar but am not convinced that would cut it. Would the best long term option be to install a instant hot water/paloma style heater?

 

our other main concerns are less pressing - the colour scheme (from the outside I think it's OK but boatcat thinks it's quite awful) and fit-out, inside some of the tongue and groove is mismatched (i.e. vertial horzontal and diagonal) not to mention that burgundy!

 

look forward to hearing what people think . . . .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paul C]

Does running the engine make hot water via the calorifier? If so, then since you say you'll be cruising most of the time, hot water won't be an issue. I'd be tempted to leave the generator etc since you're unlikely to get much money from removal etc. Batteries and larger inverter are relatively easy to add.

[towpathrider]

Hi Paul,

 

I'm not sure whether the engine does provide hot water as well - though i know that's generally the case. That's something we need to find out along with a few other things from the owner. The calorifier itself was under the bed and wrapped in a blanket underneath the bed slats which were screwed down, so i couldn't properly inspect it.

 

We won't be cruising daily though so will need to use the generator for hot water. Will the calorifier keep the water reasonably hot for a whole day if heated in the morning?

[Tuscan]

I would be inclined to keep the gennie for the first year until you see what works for you. It's an expensive bit of kit. I assume the engine will also give you hot water. How is the boat heated in the winter?

[Grace and Favour]

IF the immersion heater in the calorifier is (we assume) 240v and is run from either your generator/shoreline, then the length of time it will take to heat the water depends on how many Kw it is. A 1Kw unit would take about 3 hours to heat the calorifier, (and a 2Kw unit about 1 1/2 hrs).

 

You definitely need to determine whether the engine will heat the calorifier (though I suspect that as an indirect raw water cooling system it may well not) .

 

New batteries and bigger inverter are certainly easy to fit, as are solar panels (though you may well find that a new solar controller is necessary depending upon the type of controller currently fitted.

 

In truth, almost everything is 'do-able', but always at a price of course.

 

To address your question of will the calorifier keep water warm during the day - the answer has to be - it all depends upon the insulation round it. Your description of a blanket wrapped round it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the insulation, although it would be very easy to box it in, with generous air-space around it, (even a simple thin ply boxing would suffice) - and fill the space with rockwool, or polystyrene beads. (Or wrap it round with bubble-wrap.)

[Stormbringer]

Keep the generator....better to put hours on it than your engine if you are not cruising and want to run washing machine, heat water and charge your batteries. Once you are out on the cut in winter and solar is no help I'm sure the generator will come into it's own.

If you get new batteries get Trojans ...prices are pretty good at the moment...

 

Looks like a nice boat ....decor can be changed quite easily...lol..

 

Good luck and enjoy...

[towpathrider]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

I do need find out the wattage of the immersion coil yes. I suppose if its a small one we could replace it with something like a 4kw unit just to make the most of the power being generated. Another option for the winter is that the stove has a back boiler fitted, currently with a passive pipe only system (no rads) that runs from the stove to the back of the boat. I'm not sure how efficient that set up would be for heating (and/or safe) but i know that that back boilers can be plumbed into the calorifier.

 

I guess the boat is essentially good to go, i'm just unsure of the running costs of the generator, i'm guessing it would be similar to running the engine for the equivalent amount of time each day?

 

Another thing I forgot to mention is that there is some water in the engine bilge, this was also mentioned in the survey. Is this a major cause for concern?

 

Thanks again for all the replies, i'll be contacting the seller to confirm some of these details before we put in an offer.

Edited August 10, 2014 by towpathrider

[RLWP]

My thoughts. I don't like the decor. I'm assuming you do, so bear in mind you may struggle when it comes to sell the boat

 

Not that I know anything about selling boats, I've never done it

 

Richard

[JDR]

As the current owner of Aquarius, thanks for all the comments.

 

The engine (Beta BV1505) is direct water cooled with it´s own skin tank. As is the genset. The engine for the the genset is a Beta BV1305 which uses between .75ltr/hr to 1ltr/hr depending on load.

 

The solar panel is a 250W Sanyo HIT the most efficient panel (19%) I am aware of. MPPT is a Steca.

 

There is also a secondary cooling system for the engine which has an intake from the weed hatch if temp reaches above 85deg C. There is a heat exchanger between the engine and skin tank, the cold water from the river/canal is expelled on the the port side. If wanted this system could be disconnected in ten seconds but is useful on long river runs. The previous owner spent time on the tidal Thames and Trent.

 

The calorifier is heated by the engine, the heater element is 1kw. A brand new Surecal was fitted by Hilperton in 2010. The calorifier has insulation already fitted. The immersion element is vertical. In October last year I had to leave the boat for two months to go to India for work. Being paranoid about frost damage I put a spare single duvet on the top of the calorifier to prevent any frost damage.

The calorifier will produce hot water after 30 minutes, after a long run you will have hot water for a couple of dayse genie.

 

Powering the immersion by the generator is also an option. Given the power output of the gennie whenever the washing machine was used I would always put he immersion on at the same time as well as charging anything that needed charging charging to put some load on the genset.

 

When I first got the boat it had 1" galvanised steel pipe running off a backboiler on a Parkray stove running the length of the boat. I replaced the stove and replaced the galvanised steel with 28mm copper (gravity/convection) intending to add rads but found it worked so well without any rads that I left it with just the copper pipe. It is an unpressurised system, completely safe and has worked perfectly since 2009.

 

Boat was repainted in 2012, absolutely no rust on superstructure. Water tank cleaned at same time and new cratch cover fitted.

 

Water in the engine bilge was due to a new bilge pump fitted by me with with an off/off/auto switch being left in off position by mistake.I thought I had mopped most of it up, apologies if there is anything left.

 

Please contact Paul at Braunston with any other questions and I will do my best to answer any queries to the best of my ability.

 

Surveyor for the hull was Craig Allen, who I had never met before but found very straightforward to deal with I have no problem with any potential buyer contacting Craig direct.

 

Sorry for the decor!

 

Cheers

John

Edited August 11, 2014 by JDR

[towpathrider]

Hi John,

 

thanks so much for the detailed info; I was about to contact Paul about most of the above points so thanks for covering them. Please don't apologise for the decor! - I don't mind it at all but my partner isn't so keen. I guess it can be difficult when you stray away from the more traditional look as that's what many people seem to expect/want in a narrowboat. I may pm you about a few other small details.

 

Thanks again :-)

[John V]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

I do need find out the wattage of the immersion coil yes. I suppose if its a small one we could replace it with something like a 4kw unit just to make the most of the power being generated.

 

maximum standard immersion is 3Kw strongly recommend you don't bother with bigger (commercial go up further but the price jump is big)

Also remember that a lot of marina supplies are only 10A so you wouldn't be able to use a 3Kw there. A 1.5Kw is much more "boater" friendly

[Noah T]

For what it's worth I think the interior decor is quite appealing, apart that is for the puce panels in the saloon which you could easily repaint in a less glaring colour.

 

The grey superstructure is a bit stark but it would not be too difficult to add some coachlines etc to liven it up a bit.

 

BTW, if you buy the boat and decide you really don't like having that generator, I'd be happy to take it off your hands!

[John Williamson 1955]

Towpathrider, you say a lot of us don't trust surveys, especially those not commissioned by the purchaser.

 

Some of those that say a survey is a waste of time in their opinion are very experienced boaters who in effect do their own surveys when they view a boat. Others view it as an unnecessary expense. There are also some on this forum who are very glad they commissioned a survey which saved them wasting many thousands on what was basically a scrap hull with some stuff in it.

 

If you're not sure about your knowledge and ability, then (In my opinion) a survey is a good idea. A survey commissioned by the seller is a good guide, but due to the nature of these things, the purchaser has no comeback against the surveyor if a problem subsequently appears that should have been noticed. If you commission your own survey and a problem appears, there is at least the slim (Due to the number of disclaimers they include in the document) prospect of winning a case against the surveyor for compensation. Depending on the age of the boat you eventually buy, you may also need to get a survey done for the insurance company.

 

I'm sure the boat you mention is in the condition represented by the advert, and I'm making no suggestion otherwise, I'm just pointing out what I consider to be good practice.

[towpathrider]

Thanks John, will definetly take that into account. Some importnat points raised there :-)

[Felshampo]

Sorry for the decor!

 

Cheers

John

Looks fine , not everyone likes chintz!

[dmr]

My personal view, which many will ridicule, is to sell that huge Genny and use the proceeds to fit a TravelPower.

Many say its stupidity to put hours on the main engine but I think its all rather odd to get a second engine when you already have a perfectly good one!

A well looked after engine should do at least 15000 hours, that's 15 years at 1000 hours per year, and fitting a replacement is no big deal.

 

............Dave

[bottle]

but the boat may need 8Kw.

 

ps, I have a 7Kw one

[John Williamson 1955]

My personal view, which many will ridicule, is to sell that huge Genny and use the proceeds to fit a TravelPower.

Many say its stupidity to put hours on the main engine but I think its all rather odd to get a second engine when you already have a perfectly good one!

A well looked after engine should do at least 15000 hours, that's 15 years at 1000 hours per year, and fitting a replacement is no big deal.

 

............Dave

I'm not ridiculing your idea, well, not much, anyway.

 

Given the choice, I would always have a generator on board, totally separate from the main engine, as well as a decently sized inverter or travelpower purely for the redundancy. As I would by definition be off grid when I was using it, I like the confidence that a backup gives. In the same way, when I get round to fitting a skin tank to replace the current radiator based cooling lashup on the engine, I'll probably fit a calorifier for hot water, while retaining the Morco. In an ideal world, I'd have an electric motor connected to the genny and driving the propshaft via a belt, too, but that might be considered going over the top...

[Bigredbus4468]

As a I have never owned a boat (yet) I am unqualified to comment but surely its like buying a house. Decor can be quiet easily changed if you don't like it. Structure and equipment seem more important and this boat looks well looked after and good value for money.

 

Secondly irrespective of what other people think, this is somebodies pride and joy.

[RLWP]

As a I have never owned a boat (yet) I am unqualified to comment but surely its like buying a house. Decor can be quiet easily changed if you don't like it. Structure and equipment seem more important and this boat looks well looked after and good value for money.

 

Secondly irrespective of what other people think, this is somebodies pride and joy.

It is unusual for a boat to be decorated in the way a house is. Usually, it will be panelled in some kind of wood, you aren't going to change that in a hurry.

 

Pride and joy or not, the OP asked for thoughts

 

Richard

[Guest]

It is unusual for a boat to be decorated in the way a house is. Usually, it will be panelled in some kind of wood, you aren't going to change that in a hurry.

Pride and joy or not, the OP asked for thoughts

Richard

Well not quite, wood can be prepared and re painted.

 

Oh course it can be expensive to replace the base material but a lot cheaper to change it's appearance.....

[RLWP]

Well not quite, wood can be prepared and re painted.

Oh course it can be expensive to replace the base material but a lot cheaper to change it's appearance.....

You don't see it done successfully very often though

 

Richard

[Bigredbus4468]

It is unusual for a boat to be decorated in the way a house is. Usually, it will be panelled in some kind of wood, you aren't going to change that in a hurry.

 

Pride and joy or not, the OP asked for thoughts

 

Richard

 

You chose to miss the point. You don't buy a house for the decor as you can change it, and it can be a little more difficult on a boat. Yes I know the OP asked for thoughts but I'm sure he was asking for equipment thought not the fact you don't like the decor and see fit to slag off somebody's home.

[Guest]

You don't see it done successfully very often though

Richard

But when somebody spends time and being good at attention to the detail it can be done really well

 

Personally I would never dismiss a boat on the basis of its 'decor'. We once nearly dismissed a house on the same basis but didn't, and never regretted it.

 

We did it successfully......

[RLWP]

 

You chose to miss the point. You don't buy a house for the decor as you can change it, and it can be a little more difficult on a boat. Yes I know the OP asked for thoughts but I'm sure he was asking for equipment thought not the fact you don't like the decor and see fit to slag off somebody's home.

 

I'm not sure why you are choosing to get upset on someone else's behalf, I hope they appreciate it

 

Richard