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SAE 30 OIL API SF/CC-CD

jenevers

By jenevers
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Mike Tee Experienced

Mike Tee

Posted
Posted

Been using this in a RN DM2 for years - seems to do the job, and used by the engineer who gives it an annual going over.

 

http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/Catalogue/ProductDetail/oil-golden-film-classic-sae-30-5l?productID=0ffc34f7-7902-47c0-831a-48381d64da06&catalogueLevelItemID=e40124eb-37d0-4d43-8001-096e8ab745c5

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martyn 1 Community Regular

martyn 1

Posted
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The nearest I've managed to get up to now has been SAE30 API CF-4

 

This is not aimed directly at the OP, but for umptenth time that I an a couple of other have said this on this forum, API CF is not API CC and is wrong for a Gardner or Lister JP.......

 

The more modern detergent oils although may well be SAE30 are not the correct oil as the engines have poor to virtually no oil filtration and the higher detergent oil carry all the crap straight round the engine but with no filter to catch it just isnt good.

 

As Frangar has already mentioned the widely accepted correct oil for the Gardner's / Lister JP's is the Morris goldenfilm oil which are easily available online and and most chandlers

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LEO Influencer

LEODonate to Canal World

Posted
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Hi,

 

What about Morris's Golden Film Marine 10W40 - a new oil for narrowboats - beats Sae30 in lubrication properties and Gardner's have oil filters.

 

Have spoken to their tech. dept and they said it is acceptable for a 2LW to use instead of an Sae30.

 

Good oil circulation in cold weather.

Easier starting.

Useful to avoid bore glazing.

 

and more........................

 

L.

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martyn 1 Community Regular

martyn 1

Posted
Posted

Gardner's have oil filters.

 

But unfortunately in modern day sense of the term they don't have filters. on earlier LW's and L2's the oil "filter" is nothing more than a fine brass gauze mesh (might stop a chunk the size of your finger!!) and on the later engines with a replaceable paper element things are not much better because the oil filter is not full flow like modern engines (e.g. all the oil goes through it). the oil that returns out of the oil pressure relief valve is unfiltered and feeds the governor, cam box and at the far end the timing chain, all of which is probably some of the most tolerance critical parts of the engine.

 

Incidentally later Gardner LX onwards do state multi grade oils 20w/20 but that isn't the issue, its the API grade, the oil must be a CC maybe a CD at a push, but basically the new oils have additive packs that these old engines were never designed to run with, and seem as the correct Gardner specified stuff is still readily available from various sources. It just astonishes me that people toy with incorrect oils on what is probably the single most expensive part of the boat to replace except the hull itself.

 

As for the 10w40 if its a API CC oil you will probably find that its quiet happy on it, but as the correct stuff is available I wouldnt try it on my own engine until the proper stuff is un obtainable.

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LEO Influencer

LEODonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

 

But unfortunately in modern day sense of the term they don't have filters. on earlier LW's and L2's the oil "filter" is nothing more than a fine brass gauze mesh (might stop a chunk the size of your finger!!) and on the later engines with a replaceable paper element things are not much better because the oil filter is not full flow like modern engines (e.g. all the oil goes through it). the oil that returns out of the oil pressure relief valve is unfiltered and feeds the governor, cam box and at the far end the timing chain, all of which is probably some of the most tolerance critical parts of the engine.

 

Incidentally later Gardner LX onwards do state multi grade oils 20w/20 but that isn't the issue, its the API grade, the oil must be a CC maybe a CD at a push, but basically the new oils have additive packs that these old engines were never designed to run with, and seem as the correct Gardner specified stuff is still readily available from various sources. It just astonishes me that people toy with incorrect oils on what is probably the single most expensive part of the boat to replace except the hull itself.

 

As for the 10w40 if its a API CC oil you will probably find that its quiet happy on it, but as the correct stuff is available I wouldnt try it on my own engine until the proper stuff is un obtainable.

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks for the definitive answer, I think I will stick with the standard Sae30.

 

However I do remember in the late 60's when Duckhams Q20/50 and especially Castrol GTX were introduced, testers were really impressed by the latter - I still use it in my '71 MGB - with it's old prewar design of B series engine.

 

Thanks for all your input, especially with regard to the oil filter on the LW.

 

L,

 

PS. like your website.

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Edders Collaborator

Edders

Posted
Posted

I have been using SAE 30 grade detergent free oil from the Vintage Oil Company. (Pennine Lubricants Heritage range, CC spec). Mail order or collect by prior arrangement. Premises are adjacent to Trent and Mersey canal in Burton on Trent.

 

http://www.vintagebearings.co.uk/vintage-classic-oil.

 

Competitive price.

 

No connection other than satisfied customer.

 

Tony

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jonesthenuke Rising Star

jonesthenuke

Posted
Posted

I am presently using this which is API SB/CB. http://ryeoil.co.uk/...ntagetractoroil and the COSHH sheet gives more details http://rye-oil.ltd.uk/ryeoilstore/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/VINTAGERANGE.pdf



I have no connection with these people and I suggest its worth looking for equivalent products before buying more mainstream brands.


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martyn 1 Community Regular

martyn 1

Posted
Posted

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks for the definitive answer, I think I will stick with the standard Sae30.

 

However I do remember in the late 60's when Duckhams Q20/50 and especially Castrol GTX were introduced, testers were really impressed by the latter - I still use it in my '71 MGB - with it's old prewar design of B series engine.

 

Thanks for all your input, especially with regard to the oil filter on the LW.

 

L,

 

PS. like your website.

 

No Problem, As i said the multigrades are not the problem its the detergent/additive packs and in the late 60's/ early 70's even the oils you mention would have been API CC maybe CD so would most likely be fine as long as the new oil covers the temp and viscosity range of the stated SAE30

 

and thanks for the comment on our site.

 

Don't do it...

 

You'll kill your engine.

 

Or not..

 

Depends on who you believe.

 

(cheap oil will do, your engine was built to run on chap oil...)

So hypothetically you have just spent the best part of £12k of a 2LW and chucking some old recycled used to be oil crap in it is ok, is it?? Somehow I don't think so and well I can't complain too much as its skimping on oil and poor servicing that is the ultimate cause of most of the engines coming through my workshop so keeps me in business, or you could just maintain it with good quality products to the spec and intervals spec'd by the manufacture and get the most out of your engine.

 

These engines wern't built to run on cheap oil as you say, at the time it was cutting edge fluid technology and would have been good stuff.

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jenevers Rising Star

jenevers

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

This is not aimed directly at the OP, but for umptenth time that I an a couple of other have said this on this forum, API CF is not API CC and is wrong for a Gardner or Lister JP.......

 

The more modern detergent oils although may well be SAE30 are not the correct oil as the engines have poor to virtually no oil filtration and the higher detergent oil carry all the crap straight round the engine but with no filter to catch it just isnt good.

 

As Frangar has already mentioned the widely accepted correct oil for the Gardner's / Lister JP's is the Morris goldenfilm oil which are easily available online and and most chandlers

Thanks for the advice. My problem is I'm not in the UK, so I can't get Morris's Golden Film oil.

So is the SAE 30 API SF/CC/CD oil I mentioned OK?

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martyn 1 Community Regular

martyn 1

Posted
Posted

The oil you mention in your original message is SAE30 API CF-4 which is not suitable as its API CF

 

If you can find an API CC or CD at a push then thats fine.

 

Thanks for the advice. My problem is I'm not in the UK, so I can't get Morris's Golden Film oil.

So is the SAE 30 API SF/CC/CD oil I mentioned OK?

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jenevers Rising Star

jenevers

Posted
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Posted

The oil you mention in your original message is SAE30 API CF-4 which is not suitable as its API CF

 

If you can find an API CC or CD at a push then thats fine.

 

Thanks again for the info. I'll get the SAE 30 API SF/CC/CD and get rid of the SAE 30 API CF-4 ( all 30 litres worth!!). Unless It's OK to use in the Gardner Gearbox???

Glad you pointed out that even the modern paper element in an LW isn't a full flow type. btw what does the "SF" mean?

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steamraiser2 Proficient

steamraiser2

Posted
Posted

"SF" is an obsolete reference to the oils suitability for use in petrol engines. AFAIR it is to do with cleanliness of piston rings and skirt lubrication issues caused by the accumulation of combustion caused varnishes. It has no pertinent relevance to classic diesel engines. The API CC/CD references are the important bit.

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David Schweizer Veteran II

David Schweizer

Posted
Posted (edited)

I use Classic Oils of Aylesbury here :- http://www.classic-oils.net/Product-126/Products-by-Application/Engine-Oils/SAE-30

 

I actually use 20/50 which is usually on offer.

Edited by David Schweizer
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LEO Influencer

LEODonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

I use Classic Oils of Aylesbury here :- http://www.classic-oils.net/Product-126/Products-by-Application/Engine-Oils/SAE-30

 

I actually use 20/50 which is usually on offer.

 

I use these suppliers as well, excellent firm to deal with and brilliant ironmongery / tool shop attached.

 

Prices good as well, 20/50 for your engine is OK, but the definitive answer from Martyn1 indicates the way to go if you need an Sae30.

 

L.

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Gordon Munk Explorer

Gordon Munk

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the advice. My problem is I'm not in the UK, so I can't get Morris's Golden Film oil.

So is the SAE 30 API SF/CC/CD oil I mentioned OK?

A thread corpse-reviving I know, but did you ever resolve this? ( which country?)

 

Alternatively a source of API CC / CD in France

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Gordon Munk Explorer

Gordon Munk

Posted
Posted

 

This is not aimed directly at the OP, but for umptenth time that I an a couple of other have said this on this forum, API CF is not API CC and is wrong for a Gardner or Lister JP.......

 

The more modern detergent oils although may well be SAE30 are not the correct oil as the engines have poor to virtually no oil filtration and the higher detergent oil carry all the crap straight round the engine but with no filter to catch it just isnt good.

 

As Frangar has already mentioned the widely accepted correct oil for the Gardner's / Lister JP's is the Morris goldenfilm oil which are easily available online and and most chandlers

I am guessing the OP may be in France because it seems that in oils available for 'véhicules anciennes' are either CF or CA/CB and no sign of CC or CD. Would CA/CB be suitable for a late '50s early '60s Gardner 4LW?

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