Can anyone identify this motor?

[IanM]

Just trawling through some of my pictures and came across this one and I wondered if anyone could identify the motor coming towards the camera (obviously I know which one I'm stood on to take the picture ). Not particularly important but it would be nice to know.


Oxford Canal by imulford, on Flickr

[alan_fincher]

How long ago?

 

Looks to me like "Towcester" before it acquired the "Jules Fuels" on the deck board.

 

Can't immediately think of any other likely candidates.

 

EDIT:

 

The picture appears to be taken from Collingwood

Edited June 19, 2014 by alan_fincher

[IanM]

Thanks Alan, I can see it's Towcester now. My initial thoughts was it was "Southern Cross" but I think it still carried the BW livery in 2008.

 

This page on your blog also seems to confirm it is Towcester http://sickleandchalice.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/so-what-type-of-boat-is-sickle.html

 

 

Virtual point for recognising Collingwood

Edited June 19, 2014 by IanM

[alan_fincher]

Collingwood is easy, as it is in adjacent pictures in your album!

 

The boat pictured is a Town Class, having the two extra guard irons that the majority of these acquired at the top of the front end, but is also a Northwich, as it clearly has a Northwich stem post.

 

So not "Southern Cross" on at least those two counts.

 

There are not many "Big Northwiches" it could be, I think, and it is clearly part loaded, so I think it is "Jules".

[IanM]

Collingwood is easy, as it is in adjacent pictures in your album!

 

The boat pictured is a Town Class, having the two extra guard irons that the majority of these acquired at the top of the front end, but is also a Northwich, as it clearly has a Northwich stem post.

 

So not "Southern Cross" on at least those two counts.

 

There are not many "Big Northwiches" it could be, I think, and it is clearly part loaded, so I think it is "Jules".

 

I did not know that boat the extra guard irons but looking at others now I can see what you mean.

 

So what makes a Northwich stem post different from a Woolwich?

[alan_fincher]

 

So what makes a Northwich stem post different from a Woolwich?

 

The Harland & Wolff "Woolwich" boats use a shaped cast metal stem post with two different "wings" on it, and the hull plates on each side are separately riveted to each of those "wings". so there are two rows of rivets, but none that pass right through both sets of plates.

 

Quick example here is "Chertsey", (before it got the smart livery now carried).

 

 

On a W J Yarwoods & Sons built "Northwich boat, there is a simple flat stem post with parallel sides, and the bow plates are bent around onto this, and a single line of rivets goes through the whole lot, producing a sandwich of "plate/stem post/plate".

 

"Arcas" on the left is a "Woolwich", "Sickle" on the right is a "Northwich".

 

Sickle no longer has her original stem, as it was taken out and replaced with the 5 foot long ice breaking ram. When this was cut off they simply torched it back to something like the original size of the stem, but with no great finesse, hence the very rough look to what we now have.

 

Edited June 19, 2014 by alan_fincher

[Derek R.]

The Northwich rises slightly higher and is rounded over the cant, whereas the Woolwich doesn't rise quite so high and is cut short before the curve descends.

 

Touche! Better still.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Derek R.

[IanM]

Thank you both for that explanation. I think I had noticed the stem post differences between boats before but not really thought any more about it.

 

Sooooo...

 

Nuneaton is a Northwich and Brighton a Woolwich?

 

Nuneaton and Brighton - Braunston Historic Boat Rally 2011 by imulford, on Flickr

[rrt2]

Thank you both for that explanation. I think I had noticed the stem post differences between boats before but not really thought any more about it.

 

Sooooo...

 

Nuneaton is a Northwich and Brighton a Woolwich?

 

Nuneaton and Brighton - Braunston Historic Boat Rally 2011 by imulford, on Flickr

Correct, another identifying mark is the 3 rivets on the stem post where the cream panel on Nuneaton ends, as against the two on Brighton.

As far as I know all Yarwoods built narrow boats had the three rivets no matter who they were built for.

[IanM]

Brilliant, thanks for explaining.

[Laurence Hogg]

Just a note. There is no official text anywhere referring to these boats as "Town" class (same for "Star" class), this is simply an nickname and enthusiast term generated in the latter years of carrying. All GUCCCo boats had classification by letter. The only drawing which has a class name on it is the early layout for the ACC "Royalty" class.

[MtB]

 

The Harland & Wolff "Woolwich" boats use a shaped cast metal stem post with two different "wings" on it, and the hull plates on each side are separately riveted to each of those "wings". so there are two rows of rivets, but none that pass right through both sets of plates.

 

Quick example here is "Chertsey", (before it got the smart livery now carried).

 

On a W J Yarwoods & Sons built "Northwich boat, there is a simple flat stem post with parallel sides, and the bow plates are bent around onto this, and a single line of rivets goes through the whole lot, producing a sandwich of "plate/stem post/plate".

 

"Arcas" on the left is a "Woolwich", "Sickle" on the right is a "Northwich".

 

Sickle no longer has her original stem, as it was taken out and replaced with the 5 foot long ice breaking ram. When this was cut off they simply torched it back to something like the original size of the stem, but with no great finesse, hence the very rough look to what we now have.

 

 

 

Interesting stuff Alan, many thanks for posting.

 

I'm intrigued by ARCAS in this photo though. Is it the back of a butty converted into a motor, again? I ask because there appears to be no deck beam, just like ADASTREAS in the other thread.

 

MtB

[archie57]

It lost the deck beam and "rising" pieces of the sides when rebuilt at Gloucester in 1973. Legend has it that the portholes were still shining from Ernie Humphries' polishing efforts as it was craned off the lorry for butchery.

[alan_fincher]

Yes,

 

What "Archie57" says, although he is clearly better informed on the exact date and location that the boat got converted to a shortened tug than I would be, so I have learned something.

 

"Arcas" with "Actis" were one of three pairs of boats retained by BW long after they had finished other carrying contracts to handle the Roses lime juice pulp traffic from Brentford to Boxmoor, and as Archie says "Arcas" was in the hands of a still proud boatman and his family right until that end, and always kept very smart, despite being reduced to plain BW blue by then.

 

These images are copyright my brother Mike, and have been on the forum previously....

 

Like many boats that BW cut about in the 1970s, (or thereabouts), for maintenance use Arcas lost a lot of original features, but mercifully retained its hull sides as full height, despite losing over 30 feet of its length, (many had hull sides cutaway, such as Aynho and Carnaby). It got a version of the BW "reversed" cabin with the engine at the back, and worker accommodation in front.

It could fairly easily be made into a 40 foot tug with all the original Small Woolwich features, (think of Vesta), but would of course then be something it never really was until that point. If it goes into private ownership, it might almost be better left "as is", as they have largely done with Carnaby.

However at the moment it is still working, and I have a smile every time I see CRT crews using it rather than one of the new purpose built push tugs.

Here she is passing "Sickle" this month, in the Miton Keynes area.

 

[IanM]

Just a note. There is no official text anywhere referring to these boats as "Town" class (same for "Star" class), this is simply an nickname and enthusiast term generated in the latter years of carrying. All GUCCCo boats had classification by letter. The only drawing which has a class name on it is the early layout for the ACC "Royalty" class.

I do understand that and try to use the terms 'Large', 'Middle' and 'Small' however Star and Town (along with Royalty) are good terms to get the general idea. I'm working on getting used to the letter designations

 

Thanks once again for explaining the small differences between builders as I will now be the person at Braunston next weekend looking at stems rather than the whole boat

[James Owen]

Try using 'big' and 'little' instead, the terms 'Small' and 'Large' don't really work...unless we start referring to 'medium' boats in the same way.

[IanM]

That makes sense

[pete harrison]

Try using 'big' and 'little' instead, the terms 'Small' and 'Large' don't really work...unless we start referring to 'medium' boats in the same way.

I despise the terms 'Big' and 'Little' as much as the reference to 'class' when discussing G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. narrow boats. In my opinion it is 'Large', 'Middle' and 'Small' - but then what do I know

[pete harrison]

Correct, another identifying mark is the 3 rivets on the stem post where the cream panel on Nuneaton ends, as against the two on Brighton.

As far as I know all Yarwoods built narrow boats had the three rivets no matter who they were built for.

I have never had the need to look at this detail before - but Small Woolwich's also have three rivets fastening the hull plates to the stem post at top bend level

[alan_fincher]

I despise the terms 'Big' and 'Little' as much as the reference to 'class' when discussing G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. narrow boats. In my opinion it is 'Large', 'Middle' and 'Small' - but then what do I know

Yes,

 

I keep finding myself using "Big" and "Little" because more and more people now seem to.

 

But if I think about it "Large" and "Small" sounds more correct from my past, and I'll try and stick to that, (but will no doubt fail to!).

[GUMPY]

What hapened to calling them Town class and Star class or doecnt this follow large/big small/little ?

[pete harrison]

What hapened to calling them Town class and Star class or doecnt this follow large/big small/little ?

These are modern 'enthusiast' terms and are not recognised amongst the learned

[Laurence Hogg]

All the boatmen I know did and still do use the terms LITTLE and BIG, a few used LARGE and SMALL, then followed by the builders town for a Yarwoods boat and the same for a Harland and Wollf but the Walkers boats were always RICKYS. Only the company itself seemed to use the letter references. Royalty boats have always been termed Royalty's.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[GUMPY]

These are modern 'enthusiast' terms and are not recognised amongst the learned

Oh I see, The past that never was. In the same box as waistcoats and cord breeches worn with a collarless shirt and a neck scarf.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Loddon

[pete harrison]

Oh I see, The past that never was.

Just the newer 'enthusiasts' compiling groupings that they can relate to, possible encouraged by early 'enthusiasts' who also had interests in railway locomotives that used 'Class' groupings.