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Improving onboard Mobile communications


KJT

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I have an apple 4s iphone. My wife wants continuous tv. Presently i use a yagi aerial on a decorators pole but some areas its not good tv reception.

I have ee from work, £55 a month. I set it to hotspot, jam it into the mushroom vent and it receives 3g (maybe), and retransmits it into the boat. I then

receive it on an ipad and she can get tv half the time but with much buffering.

The 3g isnt briliant (this is south oxford canal).

I read about huwei 5756 and solwise routers but don't understand it well.

Can anyone recommend what I should buy with a good or any chance of success?

ken

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16 minutes ago, granddad said:

I have an apple 4s iphone. My wife wants continuous tv. Presently i use a yagi aerial on a decorators pole but some areas its not good tv reception.

I have ee from work, £55 a month. I set it to hotspot, jam it into the mushroom vent and it receives 3g (maybe), and retransmits it into the boat. I then

receive it on an ipad and she can get tv half the time but with much buffering.

The 3g isnt briliant (this is south oxford canal).

I read about huwei 5756 and solwise routers but don't understand it well.

Can anyone recommend what I should buy with a good or any chance of success?

ken

You may be better off with an omni directional aerial and a router/mifi which will accept it. You may need to get a dedicated sim to put in it too. 

 

Try solwise, they are helpful

 

https://www.solwise.co.uk/

Edited by rusty69
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Thanks so much everyone who's contributed to this thread, it's been a big help for me.

I guess the technology will have advanced some more over the last year or so but I shall certainly be checking out Huawei gear and suitable antennae :)

Question: what are greenies? Is that the up arrow in the bottom right of the posts?

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30 minutes ago, BoatyMacBoatface said:

I guess the technology will have advanced some more over the last year or so but I shall certainly be checking out Huawei gear and suitable antennae

It's not changed much over the last year or two apart from 4G being easier to receive. 

Be wary of aerials for dongles. A bit of Googling suggests that they don't always make much difference and cheap ones can make reception worse. 

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47 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It's not changed much over the last year or two apart from 4G being easier to receive. 

Be wary of aerials for dongles. A bit of Googling suggests that they don't always make much difference and cheap ones can make reception worse. 

and 4G units - if they have external antenna - will need two for best performance, though some boxy antenna, have 2 internally and a double cable.  Some of the antenna with (claimed) high gain will be fairly directional, so you must point them towards the base station mast, if you don't, then it will be worse (maybe much worse) than using the supplied, omnidirectional antenna.

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My dongle, ahem, works fine 99% of the time. Good average speeds etc.

Been looking at TS9 antennae with two connectors. If,what has been stated here is correct,I wont bother.

We hang the dongle it the window continually connected to 12v.

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58 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

If,what has been stated here is correct,I wont bother

I must repeat that what I wrote is what I've seen from my Googling. I have no personal experience of antennae on a dongle or MiFi. 

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8 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I must repeat that what I wrote is what I've seen from my Googling. I have no personal experience of antennae on a dongle or MiFi. 

No worries. My signal is,in the main, satisfactory. Just looking.

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  • 3 months later...

just seen a good buy going on fleabay for a 4G cradlepoint modem/router,  for anyone who is after a high spec mobile solution, currently going for £50 :-) , new these are over £700 :o

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cradlepoint-cb750-4G-mobile-router-/263172730296?hash=item3d46512db8:g:3d4AAOSwAk9ZpCUQ

wish I had seen this before I bought my dongle.

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11 minutes ago, speckled hen said:

just seen a good buy going on fleabay for a 4G cradlepoint modem/router,  for anyone who is after a high spec mobile solution, currently going for £50 :-) , new these are over £700 :o

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cradlepoint-cb750-4G-mobile-router-/263172730296?hash=item3d46512db8:g:3d4AAOSwAk9ZpCUQ

wish I had seen this before I bought my dongle.

It doesn't seem to have an external aerial capability so it probably wouldn't be much better inside a steel narrowboat than a Mi-fi unit.

Reading the 'blurb' it suggests the unit can be positioned anywhere to obtain the best signal. I would suggest putting it outside on the roof would not be a practical solution.

Ken

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46 minutes ago, NB Ellisiana said:

It doesn't seem to have an external aerial capability so it probably wouldn't be much better inside a steel narrowboat than a Mi-fi unit.

Reading the 'blurb' it suggests the unit can be positioned anywhere to obtain the best signal. I would suggest putting it outside on the roof would not be a practical solution.

Ken

Could be if put in a secure plastic or wooden container (painted it would look like steel) with the leads fed though a vent.

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As a possible alternative to the traditional 'mifi' unit, have just purchased a Huawei e8372 wingle. Previously we had a mifi unit but wanted to replace it because i) it was only 3G, ii) the battery was well past its best, only giving about 1 hour use, iii) no external antenna input, so the usual issues of where to site it.

Looked around at various options, and ultmitately bought the 'wingle'  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Huawei-Unlocked-E8372h-153-Wi-Fi-Dongle-White/dp/B014WMEJ2Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1504268884&sr=1-1&keywords=E8372

- supports 4G
- 2 antenna terminals
- while it can act as a traditional USB dongle, you only need to give it a power supply - we in effect use it as a mifi with an external battery.

So far, using it as a mifi unit have been pleased with performance and use it powered from a USB battery - (though you need to be careful because some (many?) wont stay on as the current draw is too little.) So far, I am therefore able to leave it on virtually all day and (and having a spare battery - just swap when convenient.

Not yet used in anger on-board - but in preparation have now filted an external antenna (http://www.connextech.co.uk/lmo7270-wb-smsm---4g3ggsm-mimo-outdoor-omni-antenna-1153-p.asp) and early tests look very promising. When on board will just leave it plugged into a 12v/USB socket, and have tried it in a cupboard at the rear of the boat - wifi signal is fine at the front (57' cruiser-stern)

all this to keep a teenage daughter happy! :)

One word of caution though - dont trust  Huawei manual - it said a 'micro SIM - in reality it is full size, and also quoted crc9/TS5 connection, when they turned out to be TS-9 (or at least on my model)

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  • 1 month later...

So ... updating this thread to late 2017 what are the prospects in realreality (as opposed to salestalk and theoryland) of having a system that will reliably- and I mean reliably- support high speed simultaneous upload and download speeds that will not be challenged by, say, using something similar to Skype on one pc and e-mailing on another and then streaming Netflix in the evening. 

Is it realistic to look for that these days?

What kit is best for this now? 

What are the ongoing costs now and which are the best plans in late 2017 for unlimited data usage (or very large: >50Gb/month)

Like the music teacher who posted earlier in the thread this is a crucial thing for us. We would therefore seek to afford a good quality set up or at least the best we can. 

We need some media streaming several hours almost every day and reliable good quality video conferencing with qood  quality video and sound that will not drop out; its a work thing: my partner and I are both psychotherapists who work online and a failed call interrupts treatment and could potentially leave a person in distress so it is vital the connection is rock solid and always available when needed. We're to be based at a permanent mooring but it has no existing Landline. 

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To the best of my knowledge what you describe can currently only be supplied by a land line. 

For Virgin you have to be somewhere they’ve cabled. For anyone else you have to be a lot closer than 1km from one of OpenReach’s digital boxes I believe. Alternatively OpenReach and others can supply you with a lease line or a microwave link but both of the latter are very expensive. 

I looked into this for a Rural location about 18 months ago. 

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15 minutes ago, SHG1 said:

So ... updating this thread to late 2017 what are the prospects in realreality (as opposed to salestalk and theoryland) of having a system that will reliably- and I mean reliably- support high speed simultaneous upload and download speeds that will not be challenged by, say, using something similar to Skype on one pc and e-mailing on another and then streaming Netflix in the evening. 

Is it realistic to look for that these days?

What kit is best for this now? 

What are the ongoing costs now and which are the best plans in late 2017 for unlimited data usage (or very large: >50Gb/month)

Like the music teacher who posted earlier in the thread this is a crucial thing for us. We would therefore seek to afford a good quality set up or at least the best we can. 

We need some media streaming several hours almost every day and reliable good quality video conferencing with qood  quality video and sound that will not drop out; its a work thing: my partner and I are both psychotherapists who work online and a failed call interrupts treatment and could potentially leave a person in distress so it is vital the connection is rock solid and always available when needed. We're to be based at a permanent mooring but it has no existing Landline. 

My twopenneth is this. I am a dinosaur so don't know I am happy to say what the hell you mean by video conferencing to me a video is either Betamax or vhs but what I can tell you is this mi fi wi fi stuff is VERY much down to an individuals location. For instance on my long term mooring 3 didn't work AT ALL within about 2 miles and the only ones that usualy worked was o2 and EE but with very limited success. I left my mooring 2 weeks ago and have been able to even watch telly on the pooter every where since on o2 without fail. So what I am saying is you realy must try each suppliers kit at your precise location before making any decision.

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Not on the boat (but could be) we have been using the 4G router now in the house - we live in the "country" and although fibre goes past the bottom of the lane 300 yards away, the broadband up the phone line is poor ( around 1.5 MBs on a good day and 0.5 MBs upload)  The router is a 12 volt item, which we run off the adaptor, but will of course run off any 12 volt supply.  

The unit is lodged in the roof with no external aerial, and provides speeds of around 15 MBs download speed and 7 MBs upload speed. We have a 50 GB/month package which we do use most of, and whilst it used to be better (60 MBs down) for the first 9 months, they did a mod which reduced it and we are now "stuck" with the current speeds. I tested the unit by taking out in a car to another cellsite and speeds went up to around 90 MBs, so definitely not a fault in the router, more likely they adjusted the aerial or something...  Service has been solid apart from a small period of cellsite adjustments, so on the whole have been impressed with the service / speed, considering the only other option at the moment is 1.5 MBs.  We have been told though that FTTH is on the cards - roll on that !

Nick

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5 minutes ago, Nickhlx said:

Not on the boat (but could be) we have been using the 4G router now in the house - we live in the "country" and although fibre goes past the bottom of the lane 300 yards away, the broadband up the phone line is poor ( around 1.5 MBs on a good day and 0.5 MBs upload)  The router is a 12 volt item, which we run off the adaptor, but will of course run off any 12 volt supply.  

The unit is lodged in the roof with no external aerial, and provides speeds of around 15 MBs download speed and 7 MBs upload speed. We have a 50 GB/month package which we do use most of, and whilst it used to be better (60 MBs down) for the first 9 months, they did a mod which reduced it and we are now "stuck" with the current speeds. I tested the unit by taking out in a car to another cellsite and speeds went up to around 90 MBs, so definitely not a fault in the router, more likely they adjusted the aerial or something...  Service has been solid apart from a small period of cellsite adjustments, so on the whole have been impressed with the service / speed, considering the only other option at the moment is 1.5 MBs.  We have been told though that FTTH is on the cards - roll on that !

Nick

Wonderful and will FTTH be in black and white or colour on inception? :)

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3 minutes ago, Nickhlx said:

We have been told though that FTTH is on the cards - roll on that !

At home we have Virgin. I’ve measured download at over 200Mbps and upload at over 50. At work, just a few miles away, I get 4G mifi speeds. So I do all my heavy lifting at home :)

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26 minutes ago, SHG1 said:

So ... updating this thread to late 2017 what are the prospects in realreality (as opposed to salestalk and theoryland) of having a system that will reliably- and I mean reliably- support high speed simultaneous upload and download speeds that will not be challenged by, say, using something similar to Skype on one pc and e-mailing on another and then streaming Netflix in the evening. 

Is it realistic to look for that these days?

What kit is best for this now? 

What are the ongoing costs now and which are the best plans in late 2017 for unlimited data usage (or very large: >50Gb/month)

Like the music teacher who posted earlier in the thread this is a crucial thing for us. We would therefore seek to afford a good quality set up or at least the best we can. 

We need some media streaming several hours almost every day and reliable good quality video conferencing with qood  quality video and sound that will not drop out; its a work thing: my partner and I are both psychotherapists who work online and a failed call interrupts treatment and could potentially leave a person in distress so it is vital the connection is rock solid and always available when needed. We're to be based at a permanent mooring but it has no existing Landline. 

Ok let me start by saying that if you dont have a good signal you will never get the service that you are looking for,  but most people should be able to get a good solution if it is designed and installed correctly.

Start by looking at the coverage maps for mobile networks for their 4G networks, if it says that you should get good indoor 4G coverage then you will be ok, even if it says good outdoors coverage there are things you can do to make sure you get a good connection..

Now to the bit I will guess will cause some comments.  If you want a business grade service a consumer MIFI type device will not provide you with the type of service you are looking for, well not one that I would bet my business on anyway.

firstly you need a good external aerial, my recommendation is a good quality omni directional aerial,  again people will start to say a directional yagi etc etc will be better and there is something in what they say but also  with LTE ( 4G) it can also make things much worse so on average a good omini will work better more often. Also you need two of them and its best to place then a few feet apart, again you can buy  great aerials which actually  have two seperate aerials in one housing and they have two cables coming out of them ( I use one of this type and mine also has 2 wifi and a GPS aerial in it as well so 5 cables coming out and mine works ok).

Next you need a good LTE ( 4G) router and here you definitely get what you pay for, go for one that is designed to work in vehicle and run on 12v and it should work well.

If you want a belt and braces solution go for a router that supports two sims, then you run on two seperate networks which gives you better odds of having a good signal.  my preference based on network coverage and performance is EE and Vodafone. 

Then you have the choice to connect an internal WIFI device in the boat to extend your data connection or use a wired connection,  wired is always better.

now there are mobile solutions that are used by coaches to provide WIFI streaming to its passengers, also the police use systems that then use their patrol car to act as a local data point that the on foot offices connect through to provide a performant and secure connection for personal video and data .

So what would this cost, well I doubt you could set up a system for much less than £800- £1000. and such a system is not for the average narrow boat user but if you are running a business then its a different matter.

As to how good could this be, I have installed similar systems in high street retailers to run all their in store systems on and they are stable and work great, there are however some locations where it wont work and we have to put in a land line but that is less than 5% of locations and getting less every month.

As to router manufacturers the main commercial grade ones I have seen that work well are peplink and cradlepoint or Sierra Wireless who between them have most of this market and antennas two makes I have had good results with are Panorama Antennas and Mobile mark.

I have no connection to these companies other than as a satisfied customer so I would advise that you speak to on of them or similar specialists in commercial mobile data solutions.

Wireless Connectivity,  Westbase and Aquamare Marine.

Personally I have set up that allows me to work from the boat and I use webex conferences, stream video and transfer files as good as if I was in my home office,  I also use Now tv and Netflix for streaming video, occasionally it buffers but not enough to be annoying and my clients are amazed when I say I am working from my narrowboat.

you absolutely get what you pay for but make sure you pay for good advice as that is the best money you will spend.

 

 

  • Greenie 2
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2 hours ago, SHG1 said:

We need some media streaming several hours almost every day and reliable good quality video conferencing with qood  quality video and sound that will not drop out; its a work thing: my partner and I are both psychotherapists who work online and a failed call interrupts treatment and could potentially leave a person in distress so it is vital the connection is rock solid and always available when needed. We're to be based at a permanent mooring but it has no existing Landline. 

Would have thought you'd need decent 4g reception on at least 2 networks and a 4G router with failover or channel bonding, a chat with a specialist supplier might be your best bet.

Might be something along these lines (but I'm not an expert on this, nor do I pretend to be :))

http://www.3grouterstore.co.uk/3G/Proroute-GEM420-M2M-4G-Router.html

Overall I'd say a mooring with landline and 4G backup may be the best bet.

Edited by smileypete
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Thank you to all who have contributed advice - all good and very welcome. We have heard what yous say and will have a landline after all at the home mooring, cost being worth it even at several hundreds to keep the business going. Away from our own mooring we will make use of the advice re 4g connections. Old-p I like your belt-and-braces style so will follow that too.

We will certainly seek specialist advice from specialists in commercial mobile data solutions. I'd be a little doubting of standard companies appreciating the demands of installation in a steel, mobile Faraday cage that is the boat. Am I being too wary? Or can you helpful folks suggest companies you know have done that kind of set up before? How much do such companies charge?

I get the impression that some people on this thread are maybe in the business and have kindly avoided plugging their own commercial interests - or perhaps are just knowledgable and helpful. But if any of you happen to be a "specialist in commercial mobile data solutions" who's also done boat set-ups feel free to message me direct off list.

Thanks again you helpful people :o)

Edited by SHG1
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IMHO you don’t necessarily need a specialist to solve the problem of being in a steel tube. Like thousands of houses, the simple solution is to fit an external aerial. Solwise seem to be reputable suppliers who are happy to give advice.

A couple of high bandwidth sources, (say, EE and Three?), in a dual SIM system and, probably most important, a discipline of not travelling in areas with poor signal when work demands are critical.

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