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Lister LPWS3 fuel system bleeding


colmac

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Hello Richard,

 

That information is on the engine, but I don't have it to hand. I am away in Germany for a week working now but if there's magic that you can do with it, I'm happy to provide it!

 

I realise now how rude my previous comment seemed! This is what you get for being half asleep! Sorry about that!

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No problem

 

If you can find the build number, we can dive into the myriad Lister parts lists and work out what your particular engine should have. What you need is to reproduce your original set up if possible

 

What you really, really don't want to do is replace the pipe from the filter that feeds the fuel pumps. That would either be expensive or very hard to source!

 

Find the number and we will see what we can do

 

Richard

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What you really, really don't want to do is replace the pipe from the filter that feeds the fuel pumps. That would either be expensive or very hard to source!

 

Judging from pictures, this apparently mythical hose is missing! Also, I've always been confused by the fuel exit... so let me entertain you a little more...

 

Fuel tank, offboard fuel filter, lift pump, injector pumps, rigid hoses to injectors, outflow from injectors through copper brake type hose back to fuel tank.

 

This always seemed a little wrong to me... and it seems like it should be this:

 

fuel tank, (offboard fuel filter), lift pump, onboard fuel filter, injector pumps, rigid hoses to injectors, outflow from injectors back to inflow to injector pumps.

 

This would severely tidy my engine bay! It would also stop warm fuel from being returned to the fuel tank and promoting the growth of biological annoyances though I seem to have opened my own can of biological annoyances (worms!), albeit a fun one! I'm not too afraid of cost - I live for a love of machinery; like you I'm an engineer but I design electronics and write software. This is much better than watching the X Factor and still cheaper than a TV licence.

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Judging from pictures, this apparently mythical hose is missing! Also, I've always been confused by the fuel exit... so let me entertain you a little more...

 

Fuel tank, offboard fuel filter, lift pump, injector pumps, rigid hoses to injectors, outflow from injectors through copper brake type hose back to fuel tank.

 

This always seemed a little wrong to me... and it seems like it should be this:

 

fuel tank, (offboard fuel filter), lift pump, onboard fuel filter, injector pumps, rigid hoses to injectors, outflow from injectors back to inflow to injector pumps.

 

This would severely tidy my engine bay! It would also stop warm fuel from being returned to the fuel tank and promoting the growth of biological annoyances though I seem to have opened my own can of biological annoyances (worms!), albeit a fun one! I'm not too afraid of cost - I live for a love of machinery; like you I'm an engineer but I design electronics and write software. This is much better than watching the X Factor and still cheaper than a TV licence.

It should be self bleeding. Spill fuel returning to the tank would not be warm when it arrives there, The tiny dribble that it is is cooled quickly as soon as it starts running back through cold metal pipework. Anyhow spilling back to the tank does gently re-filter the fuel for you. A very slow way of fuel polishing really.

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It should be self bleeding. Spill fuel returning to the tank would not be warm when it arrives there, The tiny dribble that it is is cooled quickly as soon as it starts running back through cold metal pipework. Anyhow spilling back to the tank does gently re-filter the fuel for you. A very slow way of fuel polishing really.

 

Either way, this does not seem to be what the engine should do when configured as stock. But yes, I'm not sure how it becomes self bleeding if it has feedback like that! More mysteries!

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There is usually a pipe that goes from the fuel filter, alongside the pumps with feeds to them, and then up to the top of the engine front right. There it goes into an alloy block which is also connected to the spill rail. There is an outlet from the alloy block back to the tank

 

Richard

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This is what I would expect to find, or some variation on it

 

On the side:

 

LPWS2-2.jpg?i=2056005268

 

Lift pump at the bottom, outlet goes to the filter

 

LPWS2-3.jpg?i=1055961609

 

The outlet from the filter is a pipe that passes next to the pumps with feeds to them - either solid as here or flexible hoses

 

On the top:

 

LPWS2-6.jpg?i=480713227

 

Injectors on the left connected by the spill rail:

 

LPWS2-5.jpg?i=962654746

 

The spill rail terminates on the alloy block on the left, which is on the end of the fuel feed pipe from the pump:

 

LPWS2-4.jpg?i=1005502032

 

The outlet on the left is the spill return to the tank

 

LPWS2-1.jpg?i=1731351675

 

Richard

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Hello! I'm back in the warmth of England again (no, that's not a joke). Thanks for the pictures; I think the engine I have is a bit more modern but the pattern fits. What I can see of the parts are in the same general places. Tomorrow in the daylight I will take a few photos of my own and get that engine build number. The photos may help some other people too so it's probably worth it.

 

Thanks again

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Here are the images -

 

the "T" is the split from the output of the lift pump into the injector pumps. The flexible black hose is the return from the spill rail, brought to the same place before the fuel lines run together back to the tank.

post-19938-0-56680700-1481114256_thumb.jpg

 

The diesel injector pumps are just the weird way they're set up. It's hard to see as set up. If you need more, just say.

post-19938-0-69881700-1481114262_thumb.jpg

 

The spill rail is just a detailed picture of the spill rail from the injectors, showing the injector plumbing.

post-19938-0-26485400-1481114270_thumb.jpg

 

This is just an overall picture to show position etc.

post-19938-0-88552400-1481114275_thumb.jpg

 

All I will say is that the diesel is the result of the last few days. Not a leaky engine that's falling apart! It's a mess I've created!

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I have a suspicion your engine has been modified in the past to eliminate the rubber hoses. There was a time when they didn't seem to comply with the BSS test. That has been amended now, and the flexible hoses are OK if clearly marked

 

Richard

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Right

 

410061LPW2A902:

 

41: Built in 1991

 

0061: Serial number

 

LPW: Lister Alpha LPW direct injection diesel

 

2: Two cylinder

 

A: Anti clockwise rotation

 

9: dunno

 

02: Build 2

 

I have struggled to find info on such an early engine, this is what you used to have:

 

Fuel-system-1.jpeg

 

Fuel-system-2.jpeg

 

In the first image, item 1 is the low pressure rail from the filter (which you don't have) to the fuel pumps. on the left hand end is a spigot. This is the self bleeding outlet, (which you don't have)

 

In the second image, the spill rail is a series of rubber hoses (8,9,11). Item 10 is a tee piece, and the bleed from the low pressure rail connects to that. Item 12 is the spill rail back to the tank

 

Richard

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Thanks Richard,

 

It looks like conversion back to stock might not be that trivial, unless LP spares can provide everything! I didn't realise 1991 was "early"! hah. I will just add though that Item 12 on the illustrations I have seen connects through 12/13 back to the leftmost point of Item 1, the low pressure rail.

 

Doing this would severely tidy up the engine bay!

 

Is this spares document available to buy? Presumably the part numbers are listed elsewhere. The exploded diagrams are really useful!

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Yes, the document is available. Yes, most of the fuel system is available - we have recently sourced some of the correct hose as the original parts were not available

 

The part you may struggle with is the LP fuel rail, and with any damage to the connections on the pumps and injectors

 

Give Sue a ring on 01926 356200

 

Richard

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410061LPW2A902 The number 9 means the engine was a special build. The 02 means the engine was originally built and tested as a variable speed with a 100% maximum power setting of 13.4 kw @ 3000rpm. After the completion of the standard dynamometer production test which was known as the LS81 there would of been specific instructions (build 9) for final speed and torque governor settings for that engine. It certainly was not built as a marine propulsion engine as it would of had a designated build number beginning with a 4

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410061LPW2A902 The number 9 means the engine was a special build. The 02 means the engine was originally built and tested as a variable speed with a 100% maximum power setting of 13.4 kw @ 3000rpm. After the completion of the standard dynamometer production test which was known as the LS81 there would of been specific instructions (build 9) for final speed and torque governor settings for that engine. It certainly was not built as a marine propulsion engine as it would of had a designated build number beginning with a 4

 

That's interesting. I suspect from your location, you have some detailed knowledge

 

So the 9 means what follows isn't the normal build number?

 

Richard

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Hallo!

this is getting fascinating! I was able to deduce visually from the service manual that it wasn't a true marine engine but it has been providing power for over 20 years in this boat. I do wonder how you might find out what it's special build purpose was! I doubt all this was special build though. My suspicion might be that the flywheel ismodified or the attachment to the gearbox housing. I have never been able to place what the gearbox is at all.

 

Erm, the only part I can actually find to buy is the difficult part...
<http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/232152617758?lpid=122&chn=ps&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=pla-75952154106&adtype=pla&poi=&googleloc=9046677&device=c&campaignid=207297426&crdt=0>

though given what you say, this may be a replica part.

 

Of course, the fittings are all going to have been modified to accept this rigid hose. I'm going to end up with a greasy set of spanners!

 

Thanks for all your comments. This is helpful. I'm off work on Friday so I will call to discuss if there are any bits which we can get hold of!

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The build number 02 is a Lister standard variable speed code number.In this particular engine that was the criteria used to ensure that the engine passed a specific production test. This would have been a series of dynamometer measurements taken at full load after the engine had completed a 45 minute staged running in process. For this particular engine that would have been 13.4kw @ 3000rpm. Only after completing and passing the standard production test (LS81) could the build 9 (LS145 procedure) be implemented. This would have been a set of instructions for the final speed and governor settings that were specific to that engine. That particular engine started its life as an industrial special build.

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