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12v LEDs instead of halogen


tomandsophie

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I have a friend on the cut who has been experimenting with using LED clusters (MR16s) instead of the standard 10w or 20w halogens that most of us use. He found that they are extremely sensitive to voltage, and would blow if the batteries weren't putting out exactly 12v. However, when they were working, they would give a nice light (if painted with a yellow gel to stop the 'cold' effect of the LEDs) and used so little power that he was able to leave a light on for an entire week 24 hours a day.

Has anybody had any success with LED lighting? Is there a way of regulating voltage so that it is a constant 12v and doesn't fluctuate at all? Are there special bulbs that are resistant to fluctuations in voltage?

As we are looking into buying solar panels so we don't have to run the engine so much, the prospect of LED lighting is very interesting...

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I don't believe they are as good/bright as Halogen, but they make good mood lighting.

A mixture of Halogen and LEDs provide an excellent compromise on a boat.

 

Some LED clusters profess to be slightly more resistant to supply variance than others, but the battery voltage on a boat varies so much, I would suggest you fit a DC-DC converter to power a set of LED lights at a constant voltage. There are various ones on the market with different capacities.

Edited by NB Willawaw
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I used the 12V LED fittings from B&Q, and home-made fittings. the B&Q ones have lasted, the home-made didn't.

 

THey are ok for spot lighting, over a cooker or an armchair, but no good for general lighting. I found that 5W halogen gave a better light, albeit for 3 times the power use.

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LEDs are comprable to halgens in the light (lumens) they give off per unit of electricy. Although are smaller.

 

They are not nearly as effiecnt as a good florecent, and both get left for dust by coldcathode florencents.

- However, there small, neet, and sexy looking. And are more effecnt than incadecents at producing colours light. So there is defornalty a time and a place for them. Such as a nightlight outside a bathroom, or (colour change) mood lighting? And of caurse, christmas lights, trafic and veiacal lgihts and torches.

 

 

Daniel

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I've a number of Hella LED lights onboard. They seem pretty impervious to everything, but are essentially mood lights as already alluded to. I would need a blimmin' lot of them to throw enough light to be useful as a total source of illumination.

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We're using these recessed 2D fluorescent lights. Draw very little power, suprising bright with just one switched on and quite a pleasant light. They're about £30 a go from Midland Chandlers.

Yes, the 2d florencents are the single best way of lighting the bulk of the boat, %90 of our lighting is done with them. THe round non-recessed ones show towards the bottom, both in 8 and 12watt. We also have a 2u bulb in the tablelamp, and two halogen spots. (was going to replace them with some coldcathode spots, fopr we dont use them enough to justfy the cost)

- All ours are 15 years old, and as strog as ever, on the origanal bulbs. Which you can buy at most suppemarkets. (just the same as the ones used in 240v fittings)

 

Daniel

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  • 2 months later...

To update you on the LED situation, I found a few websites that sell LED cluster lights which directly replace our MR16 Halogens. They have an inbuilt voltage regulator so hopefully won't blow like the cheapy ones did.

So I bought a couple to try out. Put them in last night when the batteries were quite low (around 12.08v). Started the engine (up to 13.90v) and no problems. They look good and give off a nice light which is almost exactly the same as the halogens they replace. Slightly colder light, but barely noticeable. I found that if I replace 3 halogens with 2 LEDs and a halogen, the light is lovely. And they only consume under 1 Watt each!

I will wait a week or so just to check that they don't break in that time, and then I'm going to order enough to do the whole boat. At the moment we have around 40 or 50 watts of light in each room... once I put all the LED bulbs in, that figure will go down to around 13w in each room!

Oh yes, here's a link to the LED site: 'Ultra LEDs'

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To update you on the LED situation, I found a few websites that sell LED cluster lights which directly replace our MR16 Halogens. They have an inbuilt voltage regulator so hopefully won't blow like the cheapy ones did.

So I bought a couple to try out. Put them in last night when the batteries were quite low (around 12.08v). Started the engine (up to 13.90v) and no problems. They look good and give off a nice light which is almost exactly the same as the halogens they replace. Slightly colder light, but barely noticeable. I found that if I replace 3 halogens with 2 LEDs and a halogen, the light is lovely. And they only consume under 1 Watt each!

I will wait a week or so just to check that they don't break in that time, and then I'm going to order enough to do the whole boat. At the moment we have around 40 or 50 watts of light in each room... once I put all the LED bulbs in, that figure will go down to around 13w in each room!

Oh yes, here's a link to the LED site: 'Ultra LEDs'

 

I've got some for sale at a fiver each if you want (from Ultra LEDs) Have a look in For Sale & Wanted to check they're the same bulbs as the one's you've got.

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Put them in last night when the batteries were quite low (around 12.08v).

 

Was this voltage measured with everything switched OFF?

If the answer is yes, you will cream-cracker your batteries very quickly if you don't charge them once they reach 12.2v. I really advocate your not letting them drop this low.

 

Chris

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Chris, this was with a couple of lights on and the heating circulation pump running. Don't worry about our batteries, they have been as-new for 2 years so far! Thanks for showing such neighbourly concern though <_<

The total current for the stuff you were running would only be about 10 amps max so the voltage drop at the battery would only be about 0.1 volts. If you measured the voltage (12.08v) at the battery, the batteries are undercharged. If you measured it at the end of a cable (eg: one of the lights or at the heater pump), then the additional drop may just be cable loss.

 

Chris

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Measured at the end of the cable as you said Chris, but the cable is one big big big fat cable. In fact, as an experiment I tried measuring the votage at the batteries and at the end of the cable and the readings were the same. I'm sure our nice new solar panels (should be arriving this week) coupled with lots of nice 1w LED lights will help solve our low-voltage situation!

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Measured at the end of the cable as you said Chris, but the cable is one big big big fat cable. In fact, as an experiment I tried measuring the votage at the batteries and at the end of the cable and the readings were the same.

 

Sorry if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs but to get a voltage drop on a cable you need to pass a reasonable current down it (which you may have been doing of course). In general, taking a measurement at the battery and then at the end of any piece of cable of any thickness will show the same voltage unless you have a reasonable current flowing through the cable. That's because the voltmeter itself draws such a minute current the voltage drop caused by the meter current is immeasurable.

 

Chris

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Ok, another little update. LEDs been in for nearly a week now. Just about to buy a whole load of them because they've been great so far. However, just had a quick look at the two I've got in before I place my order on the 'net, and found that one of the LEDs in one of the bulbs (30 LEDs in each bulb) has gone out. Damn! So now I'll have to wait a bit longer to see if any others go out before I order any more. How annoying. And I was just starting to think that these bulbs might have the answer. Still, there may be hope yet.

 

Some LED clusters profess to be slightly more resistant to supply variance than others, but the battery voltage on a boat varies so much, I would suggest you fit a DC-DC converter to power a set of LED lights at a constant voltage. There are various ones on the market with different capacities.

Can you (or anybody else for that matter!) suggest a DC-DC converter that I could wire in to my fuse box so that it covers all my lighting? Are they expensive? Easy to wire in? Do they draw any power themselves? Can they be left on all the time?

Sorry, but I know very little when it comes to DC-DC converters! (Could you tell? :))

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Ok, another little update. LEDs been in for nearly a week now. Just about to buy a whole load of them because they've been great so far. However, just had a quick look at the two I've got in before I place my order on the 'net, and found that one of the LEDs in one of the bulbs (30 LEDs in each bulb) has gone out. Damn! So now I'll have to wait a bit longer to see if any others go out before I order any more. How annoying. And I was just starting to think that these bulbs might have the answer. Still, there may be hope yet.

Can you (or anybody else for that matter!) suggest a DC-DC converter that I could wire in to my fuse box so that it covers all my lighting? Are they expensive? Easy to wire in? Do they draw any power themselves? Can they be left on all the time?

Sorry, but I know very little when it comes to DC-DC converters! (Could you tell? :))

 

Sorry to say I went down this road three years ago when this type of LED were very pricey and unfortunately they all died a gradual death one LED at a time when used without a stabilised PSU.

 

I later used even more expensive Luxeon LED's that worked and are still working very well on a charity boat the only downside was the specialist stabilised PSU was 230v AC.

 

The Luxeon technology is now even better and at last you can now get a stabilised PSU that will run from a DC supply between 12v -24v. We are now looking into marketing these on line when we get a decent supplier sorted out.

 

The one downside is that these fittings are self contained and not just straight bulb replacements.

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You don't need a voltage regulator, you need a current source. These are made to suit the LEDs, and sold by ultraleds. I've just used one for a bike light - the current source will take any voltage in the range 5V-32V, and output a constant 1A. The bike light consumes 3.47W and is equivalent to a 10W halogen bulb.

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Can you (or anybody else for that matter!) suggest a DC-DC converter that I could wire in to my fuse box so that it covers all my lighting? Are they expensive? Easy to wire in? Do they draw any power themselves? Can they be left on all the time?

Sorry, but I know very little when it comes to DC-DC converters! (Could you tell? :))

This is the regulator we use to power our 12v car radio, and a lighter socket for charing mobile phones from the nominaly 24v system.

 

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/par....jsp?SKU=330644

- Input of 8 to 40 volts, and it will spit out a reliable regualated 12v, 90% effeicently, for £40. Bargin!

 

Heres a photo of it installed in the cupboard by the radio.

imgp3058modgm0.jpg

 

Its a designed for mounting on a PCB, so its just been stuck to a peice of veroboard, with jumpers to a bank of screw down terminals, as you can see.

- Far left two are the 24v feeds, with the two thiner leads going to the boats voltmeter (which lifes in the cupboard, as its a bit of a after thought!)

- And then the far two are the 12v output going to the radio, which is about 10inches away. The middle two can also be used for 12v output conection.

 

 

Daniel

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Hi to you all 1st time hear but I was fascinated by this thread. I must be doing something wrong, or should I say right, I fitted 6 of these MR16s three years ago and even when the fridge light starts flashing, do to low voltage, the lights still work and touch wood I have had no problems. I have 3 X 110 leisure batteries. It may be that I have banks of three?

 

steve I NB Jesters Rest

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  • 2 weeks later...

An update. The LEDs have been in for 3 weeks now and are still going strong except for one LED that has gone out in one of the bulbs (30 LED clusters). I'm still hesitant to buy loads of them as I have a friend who has got LED bulbs that have been fine for a few months and then gradually gone out. Hmm. Still not quite sure what to do.

I have heard two reasons for the LEDs dying.

1. Too much voltage fluctuation for them to cope with. However, I would've thought that if this was the case then ours would've blown straight away when we started the engine and the voltage shot up to 14.1volts.

2. Too much heat generated in the cluster. Not sure about this one either. If this was the problem then surely no LED cluster bulbs would survive very long, whether in a house, boat, shed, or whatever.

 

I am still trying to find 5W MR16 halogens. Does anybody know if it is possible to get them?

Edited by tomandsophie
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I find the flicker (50Hz or 25Hz or even 100hz? Someone will tell me.) rather trying. You don't get that with incandescents because the filament can't cool down quickly enough, but I haven't been on a boat which is fitted with them so modern ones might be better than the gangway illuminators in our local cinema.

 

How do you find the type of light that you get with them?

 

Nick

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Nick, we don't find any flicker at all, just absolutely stable light. We bought warm-white LEDs and found that the light is almost as warm as the halogens. Ever so slightly colder, but a nice light all the same. Certainly having one halogen on for every 3 or 4 LEDs makes a difference.

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