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Question about what to look for in power management when buying a boat!


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Hello everyone, I was hoping to start a discussion about power systems on a narrowboat.

 

I've read both of Paul Smith's books about living aboard and the very informative Tim Davis articles about narrowboat electrics. What I don't know is what people down-on-the-ground actually *think* about different power strategies.

 

At the moment we are trying to choose between two boats that we like and think are practical. We have lined up a remote semi-permanent mooring with no mains power (basically a friend-of-the-family is giving us a mooring at the bottom of his field) but for us, about 40% of the appeal of a boat is cruising, so we would like to do that as well. However, just "running the engine in the morning" doesn't really appeal to us (why not just move the boat? and also the farmer doesn't want too much of that) and isn't it true that you shouldn't do that with an older engine?

 

So may I ask which boat the knowledgeable liveaboards living here would pick? (they are comparable in every other way.) I feel like Boat 1 is pretty appealing, but it doesn't have a generator. We've got some cash for buying new batteries - we just assume we'll need them - but man, those build-in generators sound freaking expensive!

 

Boat 1

A Beta 43hp engine

240v landline (not very interested in this, but could be useful)

Mastervolt 1200v inverter with a Sterling battery charger

3.5kva travel pack

300w solar panel with a control panel

1 starter and 3 leisure batteries

Sterling battery management system

 

Boat 2

~60 year old Lister JP3 engine rebuilt 2002 (not sure if you should even run this just to power the batteries - isn't it bad with the older engines, or is that an old husband's tale?)

240v landline

Waeco 2kw inverter, Sterling charger

built-in Honda 2.2kw silent generator (PETROL)

1 starter and 2 leisure batteries

 

 

Would y'all mind telling me which setup you prefer, or what you have on your boat?

 

 

 

i-should-buy-a-boat-cat.jpg

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Honda don't make a silent 2.2kw generator and a built in petrol generator is dodgy at best.

 

Boat 1 has fairly sophisticated power generation that would cost you a few £1,000 to put on boat 2 though engine dependant in winter.

 

You may have read the books but you have missed the most important piece of information; your power audit for intended use.

 

Because you don't state the amount of power you need it is difficult. But system 1 with the addition of a quiet Honda generator 1.0EUi or 2.0EUi.

 

What this should show you is that the installed power system is part of the boat that is easy to upgrade - for a cost - and not the most important factor by a long way in choosing a liveaboard boat.

Edited by Chris Pink
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What this should show you is that the installed power system is part of the boat that is easy to upgrade - for a cost - and not the most important factor by a long way in choosing a liveaboard boat.

 

This.

 

Even quite nice cocooned diesel gensets can be had for fairly sensible if there room/scope to install it permanently.

 

 

Daniel

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Would the power audit help then? Sorry. We think about 120 - 130 amp hours/ day on average. Boat 1 has a freezer, boat 2 has halogen lights that we'd have to replace. So we rounded up a lot.

 

Will not be running kettles, toasters, televisions, hair dryers, microwaves, freezers, radios, entertainments, stairlifts or other other strange and mysterious objects that retiree-types apparently need to function...

 

 

Honda don't make a silent 2.2kw generator and a built in petrol generator is dodgy at best.

 

I am also suspicious of gas generators due to a rural childhood - we'd be snowed in and powerless for a few weeks every winter, and folks in our town were particularly fond of killing themselves with them. If we went with that boat I would be pretty suspicious of running it and would want a diesel one. But presumably they had it for a reason (not wanting to run their Lister engine to charge batteries? suicidal tendencies brought on by English winter monotony? we may never know.)

 

Of course, it can all be changed, but since the "ideal power system" seems to be a sort of Holy Grail, I'm happy to hear your comments...


 

 

Even quite nice cocooned diesel gensets can be had for fairly sensible if there room/scope to install it permanently.

 

That's something I love about England... diesel generators!! And jaffa cakes. Have you got one that you particularly like? (diesel generator, not jaffa cake. although cake is welcome too)

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Hi.

 

I would go for boat 1 every time, especially based upon the outline of your power requirement.

 

The 300 watt solar is a useful amount, and would save you a lot of engine running time and diesel...even in winter to some extent.

 

That is coupled with the 3.5kvs Travelpower (That IS a generator...a 240volt 3500 watt generator that runs off the main engine ) that is always there should you ever require it.

I 'assume' that there is a battery charger...so if you wanted an extra 'boost' you could run the engine and Travelpower and turn on the batery charger ?

 

Sounds like a good setup to me.

 

Just notice the 'spec' of boat 2.

The lister is slow running/revving , and so its ability to run engine driven alternators or generators at speed will be limited.

 

I 'assume' that is why it has seperate generator

Edited by Bobbybass
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I second BobbyBass's above post.

Vinatge engines are great for those who want to dedicate a fair chunk of the boat to polished brass - they're for enthusiasts.

You want a boat to cruise and not to polish (?)

 

Betas are a known quantity reliable and relatively inexpensive to replace. They also take up much less room and in a space that's not a lot of use for anything else.

 

Option one is better for all sorts of reasons.

 

 

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I would go for boat 1 every time, especially based upon the outline of your power requirement.

And that's another answer, but without knowing anything about the rest of the boat, or the PMs requirements of the boat its a stab in the dark.

- For me I would take JP2 in an engine room over a beta box under the floor any day, and I would make what I wanted out of the boat to work around that, and i wouldnt have any brass on it to polish!. But horses for coarses and as said, we know nothing about boat or user. Few would have a steam powered boat but I love ours.

 

The flywheels on large engines make or can make a good pulley and with a 8:1 ratio you can spin an alternator fine.

 

I dont know if gas is being used as in LPG or gas as in slang for petrol, but converting the Honda, or buying a LPG genny is an option, which allows a small non-diesal genny without petrol.

 

One issue about charging batteries from a genny or the main engine is although they take a decent amount of power initially, towards the end they take very little which makes charging them from anything other than a small engine very wastefull indeed, and or means you tend to never fully charge them, which does no favours either.

 

The Travelpower is, as said, a mains generator. But so is a decent alternator and inverter.

 

 

 

Which boat do you like?

 

What do you want to do with it.

 

 

 

Daniel

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Also...does the JP3 exhaust come out of the roof ?

 

I have never understood people who want to breath diesel smoke all day ;o)

 

The way it is going at present...and the advent of only white biodiesel for engines, the Beta is designed for this whereas the JP3 may encounter lubrication problems unless additives are put in the fuel. If you research that on this forum you will find various opinions about the future life of older engines with the bio fuel..

 

Its a bit like people with old unleaded car engines.

Depends how mnechanically minded you are to take on an old engine ?



One issue about charging batteries from a genny or the main engine is although they take a decent amount of power initially, towards the end they take very little which makes charging them from anything other than a small engine very wastefull indeed, and or means you tend to never fully charge them, which does no favours either.

 

True...but the poster has said it also has 300 watts of solar.

This means its ideal as once you have done the initial charge..the solar can do the 'long haul'

Edited by Bobbybass
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Hi its boat 1 for me whilst running the travelpower you would also be making hot water. Also if boat twos gennie is lpg powered then you need not worry to much about gassing yourself as the stenching agent in lpg makes you sick very quickly!!. I have solar panels on my roof and never have to bother with the engine for about nine months of the year a very cheap option

 

Peter

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