Water Rat. Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 How long should a gear box last? I have been told mine has had it after four years. ATF did get changed and it has not exactly been raced or abused. Can this be so? it is a Hurth 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 That does seem rather a short time. What symptoms are you getting? Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Rat. Posted May 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) The cable broke and RCR fitted a new a new one. The gear box is slipping in first. I was advised to change the ATF which might have solved it but it didn't and it is still slipping. I have spoken to an engineer who thinks it is probably the clutch (?) and needs replacing. As the spares are so expensive he advised replacing the whole thing. Edited May 17, 2013 by Water Rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bagdad Boatman (waits) Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 check the cable is loose enough in gear to allow the full movment of the clutch and use ordinary engine oil not 80s gear oil. never had any problems with gearbox in 25 years cruising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) ........and use ordinary engine oil not 80s gear oil. Do you have the same Hurth box? I'm no expert, but surely they are one of the ones that generally you don't put engine oil in? Julie, Are you saying this was a brand new box fitted only 4 yeras ago? Even for a Hurth, that sounds appalling, if it is not easily fixable. Edited May 17, 2013 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf27 Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 The gear box is slipping in first. How many gears you got then ?? On a more serious note, try taking the cable off the gearbox end & engaging gear manually, in case the new cable is incorrectly adjusted & not allowing the gear to fully engage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 How many gears you got then ?? On a more serious note, try taking the cable off the gearbox end & engaging gear manually, in case the new cable is incorrectly adjusted & not allowing the gear to fully engage. That would be my first check. Depending on the actual hours, I would be dismayed at four years from a gearbox. Even my Technodrive has lasted nine years/2000 hrs. (tempting fate, I know.) check the cable is loose enough in gear to allow the full movment of the clutch and use ordinary engine oil not 80s gear oil. never had any problems with gearbox in 25 years cruising. Some boxes require ATF, though I can't speak for the Hurth. My Technodrive has a label fitted to say "ATF only." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 I think Hurth do require ATF. I also suspect that Hurth are "optimistic" in their power handling so replacing it with a higher load box might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 If it is the HBW100 then I have just pulled up the manual, and it does require ATF - the advice about putting engine oil in is wrong. This is mated to a fairly small 3 cylinder (I think), engine, (possibly Isuzu??), in a fairly small boat (34 feet). I would not expect it to be operating near to its limits, even if the manufacturer is optimistic about the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Richardson Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 I had a Hurth 2:1 box fail after seven years, the same symptoms, slipping in forward gear but OK in reverse. I'm not on the boat at the moment so I can't check, but I think it was branded ZF10M. Kingsbridge is 35ft, the engine a Beta Marine BD722, so only about 19hp maximum, and I guess about 8-10hp at cruising revs. I changed the oil (definitely ATF) at the specified intervals. It took a long time to fail completely, a year or two I recall, and in the beginning it would slip when cold, but behave when warmed up. I eventually got fed up with nursing it after an interesting trip back up the Weaver. The fitter who changed it used the expression " Ten months or ten years, who knows?". My current ZF box is three years old now, and I'm not going to chance my luck by commenting further. So far so good. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Rat. Posted May 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Yes, it does take ATF and I used the specification advised in the manual. It is a small 34' boat, vetus 310 engine. The cable seems to be fine, reverse is fine just slipping in forward. I will have another play with it over the week end. The engineer did not rate the gear box very highly, but still, four years???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Did you buy it new yourself? What happened to the previous one, or was it a brand new boat? Either way it might be worth reading up on the Sale of Goods Act (I think that's it). Good have to be of 'merchantable quality', and this isn't, in my view, unless you have done 20,000 hours with it.... How many hours HAS it been used for? MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 How long should a gear box last? I have been told mine has had it after four years. ATF did get changed and it has not exactly been raced or abused. Can this be so? it is a Hurth 100. Ours lasted 6 years on a shared ownership. the recon replacement only lasted a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) I have been through the innards of one of those recently, in an informal manner. Long and short of it was, it slipped in forwards, I took it apart, it was put back together and now it works fine I have no explanation for that Richard Edited May 17, 2013 by RLWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Rat. Posted May 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Did you buy it new yourself? What happened to the previous one, or was it a brand new boat? Either way it might be worth reading up on the Sale of Goods Act (I think that's it). Good have to be of 'merchantable quality', and this isn't, in my view, unless you have done 20,000 hours with it.... How many hours HAS it been used for? MtB I know it was a new gearbox and I gave the old one to the friend who fitted it for me. It has certainly only done a few hundred hours rather than thousands. Edited May 17, 2013 by Water Rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightpot Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 I had a Hurth HBW100 in mine originally. It slipped in forward then lost forward after it blew a hole in the bottom of the gear casing. The reconditioned ZF10M replacement lasted nearly an hour before it locked itself solid. That was fun - more fun was trying to get it repaired and eventually getting my money back from the supplier. I finally ended up with a brand new ZF10M from Lancing Marine and while it hasn't gone wrong like the last two, it is a piece of engineering that doesn't inspire confidence. Currently it makes a lovely crunching noise as I engage forward once warmed up. I spoke to an engineer about the 'box and he reckons in my application (35hp Kubota) that with the oil changes at the specified intervals it'll last about five years, stretching to about ten if I change the lube more often and don't stress it too much. I consider it as a disposable item, hewn from the finest block of cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Reed Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 For the slow of thinking(like me) can someone please explain what ATF is. Ta muchly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Many many moons ago (must be more than 25 years) when I built my one and only new boat, the customer bought the Mitsubishi/Vetus 3 cyl engine from Peter Jones at the then fairly new Midland Chandlers. He strongly recommended a bigger box than standard (Hurth 125 instead of 100? Not sure of the numbers) as well as 3:1 instead of 2:1 gearbox with correspondingly bigger prop. It worked faultlessly apart from once the gearbox working loose on the adapter plate, until a couple of years ago when the boat was lengthened and a bigger engine fitted. Tim Edit - ATF = Automatic Transmission Fluid. Edited May 18, 2013 by Timleech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Reed Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Thanks Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Forward clutch repair / replace kit £234 from Lancing marine, quite a big bill for bits, that's a good proportion of the cost of a PRM hydraulic box, look up the prices of PRM boxes at, for example, Calcutt boats, think I would be tempted to sell the Hurth spares or repair and put the money towards a PRM but it all depends on your budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Forward clutch repair / replace kit £234 from Lancing marine, quite a big bill for bits, that's a good proportion of the cost of a PRM hydraulic box, look up the prices of PRM boxes at, for example, Calcutt boats, think I would be tempted to sell the Hurth spares or repair and put the money towards a PRM but it all depends on your budget. This any help http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/prm-marine-gearboxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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