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alan_fincher

Historic Boats for sale online

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It needs to be much deeper in the water to look right. The proportions just don't work as it is in that pic.

 

Yes. I think about three tonnes of ballast will be necessary near the stern to push the uxter plate 6" below water to get it looking right...

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The stern of BAILDON looks oddly tall in your photo.

 

It's a Malcome Braine horse boat conversion, I think I read recently...

 

No,

 

It was originally a Grand Union Canal Carrying Company "Town" Class Butty, so has 4' 9" deep hull sides, very much more than any typical ex horse boat.

 

Braine carried out some of these conversions by putting on a very much deeper counter than an equivalent motor would have had, resulting in a much reduced draught, but a very ungainly and unbalanced appearance that bears no relation to a normal "Town" class motor.

 

"Baildon" is one of the most extreme cases of this I have seen.

 

On boats that were originally motors, Braien also sometimes added a "skirt" beneath the original counter, with a lowered uxter plate, sometimes, as I understand it, without even removing the original. "Bristol", ("Dipper") is, I think a "skirted" boat, and IIRC "Bournemouth" might be as well, (though I could be wrong on that one).

 

Personally the overly-deep counter on any "Town" would strongly put me off owning it, although it might make for a boat that didn't bounce its way through every bridge hole on a shallow canal!

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Ah, thanks Alan!

 

Do/did the town class butties look similarly weird at the stern?

No they would have had butty sterns, i.e, pointy with the big rudder/Elum etc. That stern on Baildon, as AF says, looks nothing like either a 'Town Class' Motor or Butty stern.

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Ah, thanks Alan!

 

Do/did the town class butties look similarly weird at the stern?

 

No

 

Something like the Narrow Boat Trust's "Brighton" is exactly the same type of boat as Baildon would have been before conversion, (except that Brighton now has a lengthened cabin, of course....)

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No they would have had butty sterns, i.e, pointy with the big rudder/Elum etc. That stern on Baildon, as AF says, looks nothing like either a 'Town Class' Motor or Butty stern.

 

 

It looks like cross between a Royalty motor and I think a Barney boat had a high stern like that.

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I remember "Baildon" back in 1979 at the Northwich IWA National. We had a "race" up the Weaver and "Neptune" left "Baildon" in her wake, I thought at the time the stern was odd but was apparently what the owner wanted, as a cruiser conversion she seemed fine but applying the early GUCCC livery seemed an odd choice as the boat didn't look like a H&W motor.

 

Here we are at rest after the race, David Blagrove in charge of Neptune with John Hodgkinson, great days back then.

 

.gallery_5000_522_55467.jpg

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Well if the person that had it done liked it and the new owners like it that's about all there is to it.

 

Unless there is a genuine potential to convert it back to its original configuration as a butty I don't see any great point in worrying about the authenticity of the motorised conversion.

 

I think it looks quite purposeful and converted working boats are part of waterways heritage. Like it or not.

 

JP

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Well if the person that had it done liked it and the new owners like it that's about all there is to it.

 

Unless there is a genuine potential to convert it back to its original configuration as a butty I don't see any great point in worrying about the authenticity of the motorised conversion.

 

I think it looks quite purposeful and converted working boats are part of waterways heritage. Like it or not.

 

JP

I completely agree with the above.

 

These conversions were a product of the time (mainly 1970's), and were not intended to replicate the equivalent motor but simply to provide a fairly cost effective pleasure boat. I think it unlikely a similar conversion would be carried out now as 'enthusiasts' have got somewhat 'dewy eyed' about these boats, and although they may not be prepared to preserve the butty in its original format most counter stern conversions are more sympathetic to the equivalent motor of that type.

 

This is further supported by an industry turning out faithful replica's, something that was not really present when these earlyish pleasure boat conversions were being produced - and clearly these replica's are a product of our current time captain.gif

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Where is "Monnow" advertised? I cannot find a advert.

I don't believe there is a current advert but am sure the owners offered it for restoration to any interested parties around a year ago. I would be happy to talk with the owner should there be anyone seriously interested.

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I completely agree with the above.

 

These conversions were a product of the time (mainly 1970's), and were not intended to replicate the equivalent motor but simply to provide a fairly cost effective pleasure boat. I think it unlikely a similar conversion would be carried out now as 'enthusiasts' have got somewhat 'dewy eyed' about these boats, and although they may not be prepared to preserve the butty in its original format most counter stern conversions are more sympathetic to the equivalent motor of that type.

 

This is further supported by an industry turning out faithful replica's, something that was not really present when these earlyish pleasure boat conversions were being produced - and clearly these replica's are a product of our current time captain.gif

 

I would go further. Malcolm Braine is now a significant name in the history of canal boats. That stern is almost historical in it's own right

 

Richard

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I would go further. Malcolm Braine is now a significant name in the history of canal boats. That stern is almost historical in it's own right

 

Richard

 

I totally agree. As she was built in 1936 and converted in 1972, Baildon has been longer in its current form than it was in its original butty form, and has been well looked after in one family ownership since 1972, so is well worth keeping like she is at the moment.

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hi foks, Im not sure whether to post on this thread or create a new one so will start here first.

 

Im in the market for a full length BCN joey hull, ideally a bantock simply because I love the balance of shapelyness and ruggedness they generally seem to have.

 

I used to own a harris brothers shortened bantock 'Kerbau' which I loved, (even with its ugly stern) but, wanting to be fully on the canal I now need something longer in which to fit my workshop and studio.

 

sooo.. does anyone happen to know know of an un-cut joey hull going cheap? happy.png

 

alongside this, I just happen to be moored by croxton flash on the T & M by Middlewich and I spotted (and kayaked out to) a sunk joey hull there, it has an odd stern made of plate the same thickness as the hull rather than the heavy duty and more pleasantly shaped ones i normally associate with hulls like this.

 

does anyone know anything about it at all? I think Lawrence mentioned it in his very interesting sunken boats list.

 

I shall try to get a shot, I didnt take the camera in case I fell out of the kayak!

 

 

many thanks, and apologies if I should have started a new thread for this..

 

s

 

 

 

  • Greenie 1

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I see they have already taken a deposit for her but I emailled anyway :)

 

Also I am happy to take on literally a bare hull (or float one)

though a floating cabined one wouldnt hurt at all for the right price..

 

s

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ahh the big question..

 

Id say my budget is 10k but im a handy guy and really like doing even the grim work myself so its a balance really between work already done and money id save in buying a knacker :)

 

Is 1645 up for grabs? pretty sure she is out of my price range though i do want to fit a hydraulic drive and having read your blog I know you envisaged that possibility for her.

 

s

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sooo.. does anyone happen to know know of an un-cut joey hull going cheap? happy.png

 

alongside this, I just happen to be moored by croxton flash on the T & M by Middlewich and I spotted (and kayaked out to) a sunk joey hull there, it has an odd stern made of plate the same thickness as the hull rather than the heavy duty and more pleasantly shaped ones i normally associate with hulls like this.

 

does anyone know anything about it at all? I think Lawrence mentioned it in his very interesting sunken boats list.

 

I shall try to get a shot, I didnt take the camera in case I fell out of the kayak!

 

 

many thanks, and apologies if I should have started a new thread for this..

 

s

 

 

 

There's a floating joey, unaltered under the M60 bridge on the Ashton Canal- don't know if the owner wants to sell, not been touched for several years (the boat that is). Very nice shape fore-end and stern,swims well.

Bill

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There's a floating joey, unaltered under the M60 bridge on the Ashton Canal- don't know if the owner wants to sell, not been touched for several years (the boat that is). Very nice shape fore-end and stern,swims well.

Bill

 

hanks bill, I will make a trip over there and see if i can find the owner.. much appreciated.. If anyone knows who the owner is id be much obliged if we could exchange contact details.. s

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Why is this boat only £40,000?

It seems like a very good deal, so what is the catch?

 

Limited buyers market? Boiler certificate is up next year

 

She is lovely

 

Richard

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