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Terrible day for one poor bloke!


GSer

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Just yesterday i was chatting to a guy locking down at aldermaston, he'd just bought the boat and was arranging transport to take it back to lancashire, this morning, repesentatives for the real owner turned up, it appears the the owner lent the boat out to an aquaintance then somehow the boat has been sold to the gentlemen i'd met at the lock.

 

Just goes to show these things happen, cheeky really. Feel very sorry for the purchaser he seemed a nice guy to me.

Edited by GSer
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Just yesterday i was chatting to a guy locking down at aldermaston, he'd just bought the boat and was arranging transport to take it back to lancashire, this morning, repesentatives for the real owner turned up, it appears the the owner lent the boat out to an aquaintance then somehow the boat has been sold to the gentlemen i'd met at the lock.

 

Just goes to show these things happen, cheeky really. Feel very sorry for the purchaser he seemed a nice guy to me.

 

Well I know if I'd handed over thousands of pounds to purchase a boat I wouldn't be handing it back to someone claiming to represent the real owner.

 

Ken

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Whilst this might not be great news for this chap it does go to show that you really do need to be careful when buying a boat, especially privately.

 

Check any paperwork carefully and if there isn't any, why not?

 

Sounds like this guy may now have a battle on his hands to either keep the boat or get his money back. Buyer beware.

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The purchaser has gone back up north after arranging transport and crane this end, police are involved, it that means the boat is still being moved or not i don't know, i doubt it, the representatives of the 'owner' arn't taking the boat, just paid a visit to see if it was their friends boat. I'd guess the boat will be going nowhere.

 

If it were me that bought it i'd be in the car now on the way back down.

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Well I know if I'd handed over thousands of pounds to purchase a boat I wouldn't be handing it back to someone claiming to represent the real owner.

 

Ken

It depends on who those representatives were and what evidence they had of ownership and court paperwork. It may indeed have been better to let the matter go to court if it had not already done so.

 

However, if the owner of the boat can show that it was sold without his consent then the law is clear no matter how much the new buyer has paid it does not belong to him and must give it back as ownership cannot transfer due to an illegal act.

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I think I'd want proof of ownership from the claimant before handing it over as well.

 

Could it be a scam? Get an "aquaintance" to "sell" your boat, then confront the guy who bought it as the real owner, get your boat back & leave it to the poor sap to find the guy he bought it from to get his money back, knowing he most likely won't be able to. Sounds like a plausible & lucrative scam to me. But then I'm a suspicious old git!

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Whilst this might not be great news for this chap it does go to show that you really do need to be careful when buying a boat, especially privately.

 

Check any paperwork carefully and if there isn't any, why not?

 

Sounds like this guy may now have a battle on his hands to either keep the boat or get his money back. Buyer beware.

As I say if the boat has been obtained by an illegal transaction the boat will not now belong to him, no court will find in his favour (unless possibly the real owner is involved in the scam as well) the victim would have to get the money back from the person who tried to sell him the boat not the owner (assuming he is an innocent party)

 

I think I'd want proof of ownership from the claimant before handing it over as well.

 

Could it be a scam? Get an "aquaintance" to "sell" your boat, then confront the guy who bought it as the real owner, get your boat back & leave it to the poor sap to find the guy he bought it from to get his money back, knowing he most likely won't be able to. Sounds like a plausible & lucrative scam to me. But then I'm a suspicious old git!

Odder things have happened, it could be a scam.

 

It does highlight that although sometimes on here brokers get a bad press if you go to a good one they will do all the checking of proof of ownership before you get involved.

Edited by churchward
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Is it possible that the boat was sold legitimately and the 'representatives' are just a bunch of chancers trying it on?

 

Initially I was wondering if the 'representatives for the real owner' were actually from a finance or marine mortgage company who'd found out the boat had been sold without clearing the mortgage/loan.

 

MtB

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Is it possible that the boat was sold legitimately and the 'representatives' are just a bunch of chancers trying it on?

 

Initially I was wondering if the 'representatives for the real owner' were actually from a finance or marine mortgage company who'd found out the boat had been sold without clearing the mortgage/loan.

 

MtB

if the mortgage company own the boat the person who owes the money cannot sell the boat without clearing the debt. You cannot own something via illegal means no matter if you have done so in good faith and parted with a lot of money. The orifinal owner will always have the prior claim to the goods be that mortgage/HP lender or an individual.

 

It is the same situation as someone stealing your car ,selling it on to someone else. If the Police then recover the car and it will be returned to you as the owner and unfortunately the person who "bought it" from the criminal will lose out.

 

If the "original owner" did agree to the sale and he truly owned the boat then the buyer does own the boat most likely and they are trying to perpetrate a scam.

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Sorry I don't know much more, rumour says that one of the two 'hirers' was found at his place of work, i doubt this will turn out to be a simple story somehow, it would seem daft to still hang around work if you've just manouvered a fair few grand from someone.

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Sorry I don't know much more, rumour says that one of the two 'hirers' was found at his place of work, i doubt this will turn out to be a simple story somehow, it would seem daft to still hang around work if you've just manouvered a fair few grand from someone.

True, but never over estimate just how stupid some folk can be.

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I heard of someone who bought a boat with mooring on the GU. It was a winter mooring

 

This happens in London all the time - or you get boats advertised as 'moored at Paddington Basin', when it's a ccing boat.

 

Someone I know bought a stolen boat (he obviously didn't know it at the time), it was a stupidly low price. It wasn't 'til he was chased down the towpath by the cops a few months later when the original owner spotted it, did he realise. :D

 

But he came up smelling of roses - the original owner agreed to sell to him for a stupidly low price, he was sick of the boat, saw it as a liability. So he ended up getting maybe £20k of boat for about £7k!

Edited by Lady Muck
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What checks do brokers do? Considering there is no ownership document for a boat the best they could do is check whose name the license is in. They couldn't even check if there is outstanding finance against the boat. I personally wouldn't consider buying from a broker to be any safer than buying privately, especially given how some brokers have screwed their customers.

 

Dave

Edited by DustyDave
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What checks do brokers do? Considering there is no ownership document for a boat the best they could do is check we hose name the license is in. They couldn't even check if there is outstanding finance against the boat.

 

True, but good brokers have a reputation to protect so are likely to take reasonable steps to protect themselves. I guess most also carry some sort of insurance to cover the losses if despite their best efforts, a boat they sell turns out not to belong to the 'vendor'.

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I reckon there must be some one somewhere rattling away on the computer trying to design a register for inland waterways craft, trouble is the market isn't really ready for it yet, but a few incidents like this one might just sway the majority to recognise the worth of a national register for boats.

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You can only go on 'indications' - for example, the seller should have BW/CRT documents in his name showing last license, plus that page about 'if you sell'. Ask to see current insurance and check same name. Also only pay to the named person on those documents. Should also be a legit address on those papers for a follow up if a problem does occur with ownership. Bit of a minefield though when buying privately.

And if the seller is reluctant to produce any documents, walk away. (I know the really smart scammers can forge this stuff, but at least its a start - gut feeling counts for a lot - always take a mate for that second opinion).

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We had a similar (Although Somewhat Cheaper) scenario on the Soar a few yrs ago.

 

Some Lads were admiring the boats whilst having a beer at the pub - A bloke approached them & told them he owned the cruiser (A Norman Conquest Looking a little sorry for itself) opposite & that it was for sale for £1000.

 

Excited the lads emptied there collected bank accounts & set about cleaning up said boat.

 

Once complete the owner appeared having been phoned by local moorers as 'new faces' were aboard his boat.

 

Police were called & the lads lost their cash.

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You can only go on 'indications' - for example, the seller should have BW/CRT documents in his name showing last license, plus that page about 'if you sell'. Ask to see current insurance and check same name. Also only pay to the named person on those documents. Should also be a legit address on those papers for a follow up if a problem does occur with ownership. Bit of a minefield though when buying privately.

And if the seller is reluctant to produce any documents, walk away. (I know the really smart scammers can forge this stuff, but at least its a start - gut feeling counts for a lot - always take a mate for that second opinion).

 

I would distrust a seller who (as I have seen in some advertisements) insisted on cash. If he won't accept a cheque, walk away.

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