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Boat Safety Scheme Changes


marcus

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I guess that means I'll get an "advice" now on my ac supply - unless a standalone RCD and separate fuse count as a "consumer unit". I don't intend to change anything.

 

Interesting that injector pipe condition is now included. I wonder whether they've thought about those engines (Listers and others) where the pipes are enclosed within the engine?

 

Tim

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Interesting that injector pipe condition is now included. I wonder whether they've thought about those engines (Listers and others) where the pipes are enclosed within the engine?

 

Tim

 

The check for injector pipe condition is there to ensure a certain level of fire resistance. If the pipes are enclosed within the engine itself, then I would suggest that they're going to be sufficiently fire resistant.

 

I wonder whether the DIY lpg hose bit affects my regulator to bulkhead fitting connection which is currently orange hose with jubilee clips.

 

If you're referring to check 7.7.3, then I'd suggest re-reading it. It applies to hoses on the high pressure side, i.e. between the gas bottle and the regulator.

 

A hose between the regulator and a bulkhead fitting is on the low pressure side and therefore the relevant check is 7.9.1: Are all low pressure LPG hoses accessible for inspection, of the correct material and in good condition?

 

Edited to add: The hose needs to be marked as compliant with BS3212 part 2 or equivalent. If yours isn't then it's going to fail anyway, but it may also be intended for natural gas not LPG, in which case LPG can attack the material from which it's made.

Edited by Teadaemon
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I guess that means I'll get an "advice" now on my ac supply - unless a standalone RCD and separate fuse count as a "consumer unit". I don't intend to change anything.

 

Without seeing what you've got installed I can't really make a comment. How is the fuse wired into the system?

 

Can't someone point out to them that diesel is fairly safe as far as fire risk is concerned. If the fire is so bad that you're worrying about the diesel then it's too late anyway...

Casp'

 

The flash point of diesel is about 55 degrees C IIRC.

 

Whilst it's a lot less flammable than petrol, it is still flammable, particularly if it's sprayed in air (as it might be if an injector pipe burned through with the engine still running), or if it's soaked on to something that can act as a wick (like exhaust lagging, quite a common cause of engine room fires on boats).

  • Greenie 1
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The check for injector pipe condition is there to ensure a certain level of fire resistance. If the pipes are enclosed within the engine itself, then I would suggest that they're going to be sufficiently fire resistant.

 

 

That certainly isn't made clear in the wording of the boaters' checklist, which just says they have to be secure and in good condition, not leaking etc., and specifically includes injector pipes, nothing about fire risk. Presume the inspectors' checklist is a bit more specific?

 

Incidentally there's something about flexible injector lines being not permitted. I'd be amazed if they (flexible injector lines) could realistically be made to work!

 

Tim

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The check for injector pipe condition is there to ensure a certain level of fire resistance. If the pipes are enclosed within the engine itself, then I would suggest that they're going to be sufficiently fire resistant.

 

 

Surly to ensure they have a certain level of fire resistance they, like gas and diesel supply pipes are going to need to be marked by the manufacturer as to what standard they are built to?

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The check for injector pipe condition is there to ensure a certain level of fire resistance. If the pipes are enclosed within the engine itself, then I would suggest that they're going to be sufficiently fire resistant.

 

 

 

If you're referring to check 7.7.3, then I'd suggest re-reading it. It applies to hoses on the high pressure side, i.e. between the gas bottle and the regulator.

 

A hose between the regulator and a bulkhead fitting is on the low pressure side and therefore the relevant check is 7.9.1: Are all low pressure LPG hoses accessible for inspection, of the correct material and in good condition?

 

Edited to add: The hose needs to be marked as compliant with BS3212 part 2 or equivalent. If yours isn't then it's going to fail anyway, but it may also be intended for natural gas not LPG, in which case LPG can attack the material from which it's made.

 

You are, of course, absolutely right! Thank you.

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That certainly isn't made clear in the wording of the boaters' checklist, which just says they have to be secure and in good condition, not leaking etc., and specifically includes injector pipes, nothing about fire risk. Presume the inspectors' checklist is a bit more specific?

 

Incidentally there's something about flexible injector lines being not permitted. I'd be amazed if they (flexible injector lines) could realistically be made to work!

 

Tim

 

Check 2.10.1 is the one that specifically mentions non-metallic high pressure fuel hoses (such as between the injector pump and the injectors). That part is there because some people have used flexible hose as an emergency 'get you home' repair to a cracked or worn injector pipe. Unfortunately some of those people have allowed that temporary 'fix' to become a more permanent installation.

 

If you read this check, you will see that it says: "Check the material of all fuel feed, return and on-engine pipes that can be seen and check for evidence of suitability." (My emphasis.)

 

Check 2.10.2 Is the one that mentions fire resistance of hoses (since metallic pipes made of suitable metals are all sufficiently fire resistant).

 

In the vocabulary of the BSS, 'pipes' are rigid, 'hoses' are flexible, and 'lines' refers to both.

 

Incidentally, when talking about the BSS, if you give the number of the check in question, it's a lot easier to make sure everyone knows exactly what we're talking about. If anyone needs a link, the full text of the 2013 checks is here (link is to a pdf).

 

I wish they wouldn't try to be artistic and use uncommon microsoft fonts which my mac won't recognise - all I get is this

 

The link I've posted above is to a pdf, which should have the relevant fonts embedded in the document and be readable whatever platform you're viewing it on. If the picture you've posted is the pdf document then I've no idea what's going on, it's beyond my experience as both a marine surveyor and a sysadmin (MS, UNIX, Netware, and even MacOS on occasion ;) ).

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Without seeing what you've got installed I can't really make a comment. How is the fuse wired into the system?

 

Very simple: there is a length of about 6 inches of cable from the shore-power inlet connector to a panel-mounted 13 amp socket. The plug which plugs into that socket has a 13 amp fuse, and has about a foot of cable to a panel-mounted RCD, from which the cabling to the rest of the boat is connected. The principle is that the plug may instead be plugged into a second socket which carries the output from my rotary converter.

 

A subsequent addition is an additional 13 amp RCD socket, fed from the inlet, to power a battery charger whose plug of course again carries its own fuse. By this means I cannot inadvertently try to run the charger from the rotary converter. The diagram is here.

 

Everything is suitably fused, and everything is RCD protected, so I am 100% satisfied with its level of safety.

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Very simple: there is a length of about 6 inches of cable from the shore-power inlet connector to a panel-mounted 13 amp socket. The plug which plugs into that socket has a 13 amp fuse, and has about a foot of cable to a panel-mounted RCD, from which the cabling to the rest of the boat is connected. The principle is that the plug may instead be plugged into a second socket which carries the output from my rotary converter.

 

A subsequent addition is an additional 13 amp RCD socket, fed from the inlet, to power a battery charger whose plug of course again carries its own fuse. By this means I cannot inadvertently try to run the charger from the rotary converter. The diagram is here.

 

Everything is suitably fused, and everything is RCD protected, so I am 100% satisfied with its level of safety.

 

To be honest, if I saw what you describe on a boat when doing a BSS examination, I'd call the BSS office and ask for their opinion. Basically, if the part I've highlighted in bold is true, then I'd consider the possibility that you were meeting the requirements in a novel way, which is acceptable. Having said that, I would not be taking it upon myself to say definitively that it was a pass or a fail.

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That's quite a common setup though.

 

It is fairly common to have plugs and sockets to switch between different sources of 240V (indeed that's specifically mentioned in check 3.9.1).

 

Check 3.9.2 is for the presence of a consumer unit, which would ordinarily contain a miniature circuit breaker or an RCBO for each circuit. The vast majority of shore power installations I've come across have one, as it's a safe an convenient way to distribute 240V ac. I certainly can't think of any advantages to doing it any other way, especially if power is being supplied to more than one circuit (which isn't the case here).

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Very simple: there is a length of about 6 inches of cable from the shore-power inlet connector to a panel-mounted 13 amp socket. The plug which plugs into that socket has a 13 amp fuse, and has about a foot of cable to a panel-mounted RCD, from which the cabling to the rest of the boat is connected. The principle is that the plug may instead be plugged into a second socket which carries the output from my rotary converter.

 

A subsequent addition is an additional 13 amp RCD socket, fed from the inlet, to power a battery charger whose plug of course again carries its own fuse. By this means I cannot inadvertently try to run the charger from the rotary converter. The diagram is here.

 

Everything is suitably fused, and everything is RCD protected, so I am 100% satisfied with its level of safety.

 

Hi

 

Is the output of the rediline earth neutral bonded I am not sure if the RCD will function correctly

 

keith

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I wish they wouldn't try to be artistic and use uncommon microsoft fonts which my mac won't recognise - all I get is this

 

ScreenShot2013-01-18at202807.png

It works on my Mac and I have never seen this sort of problem.

 

Try downloading the pdf file and opening it in Preview or Adobe Reader. That will help establish whether or not your browser is misbehaving.

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