Dominant dogs

[O'Mali]

Hi

What you have to bare in mind here is that terriers have or should have built in determination to never back down because of the job they were bred to do.

 

There is one pet forum that is very popular, uk based and has members who are professional behaviourists, vets, vetenary nurses, dog charity staff and many 1000's of ordinary members, most of which are very seasoned dog owners.

 

From there you can get a lot of direct sound advice or help with finding a real behaviourist in your area. Just be aware (law may have changed now) but anyone can set up a website and call themselves a behaviourist or trainer.

 

One thing I see a lot of people say with these situations is the first thing to do is have the dog checked over by a vet to rule out any medical condition that is making the dog "angry"

 

Also, dog on dog aggression in no way means the dog will want to do the same to humans.

[adelleandlee]

We had a simular problem some years ago, what I did was look at the pack system, both of my dogs no that I am top dog, both myself and wife are in charge (very important on a NB) dogs want to be with the pack/family in the central living area, try if you dont already have one get a dog cage, only need a smaller one for your breed, put it in another room and which ever one starts first put it in there, it may go crazy, be strong and let it calm down, then when your ready let it out, lots and lots of reward for good behaviour, dogs hate being shut out of the family/pack, it may take a while but should firm who is in charge.

Keep both dogs on the floor, if one is on the sofa for example it can see its self as higher up the pecking order, both ours are not allowed on furnature. Nutering does help but can take a while to notice a difference as hormone levels can take a while to drop. Also if you have a cage you no you can keep them safely apart incase of an

emergency. This helped with ours and they get on fine, but I always seperate them when we go out. Hope it helps!

[BargeeSpud]

Far too late for neutering. My experience is that the best times for this is before 6 months for a male (before any aggressive traits have taken hold) & after a bitch's first season.

 

You're dealing with a distressing situation & I don't envy what you're having to cope with, I hope you are able to find a solution that works for you & your dogs. Good luck.

[dor]

We still hear from some dog trainers that 'you need to dominate the dog', 'dogs are establishing their place in the hierarchy', 'they all try to be the alpha dog'. All of this is derived from the old model of wolf behaviour, now known to be wrong.

 

Maybe it is, but the model where the wolves are not related (i.e. the captive groups) so have to fight out their place in the pecking order is much closer to the domestic situation of unrelated dogs and humans.

 

The 'new' model, based on the normal troupe of extended family, does not really apply.

[Woodstock]

Not quite the same situation- but we rescued a stray Jack russell that turned out to be very nasty:- both with people and other dogs. It became situation where either he had to be rehomed or I had to learn to handle the situation. I was reccomended (by our local RSPCA) a brilliant dog trainer who is based in Alrewas- not sure where you are. She does individual sessions, but reccomended class sessions for our sitaution and within weeks he had improved and is now an extremely trusting lovable dog who is tolerent of almost all dogs now, loves some people and tolerates the rest. I cant ask for more than that and believe me 3 years ago- I would have thought it impossible

 

My situation was very different but my learning is that by getting professional help I understood what the cuase was and how to deal with it- I had also been contributing to the problem by letting him become top dog and also passing my nervousness to him. I was very lucky with this trainer as I do know of some who are good at helping you train dogs but not all are good at helping you resolve behavioural issues.

 

Let me know if you would like her phone number, even if you aren't local, it might be worth a chat with her or your local RSPCA who may be able to reccomend. Do get a reccomendation though

 

Good luck

Jackie

[Catrin]

Maybe it is, but the model where the wolves are not related (i.e. the captive groups) so have to fight out their place in the pecking order is much closer to the domestic situation of unrelated dogs and humans.

 

The 'new' model, based on the normal troupe of extended family, does not really apply.

Not according to Bradshaw. He says that dogs kept under similar conditions to captive wolves do not establish hierarchies. Additionally, feral/ pariah/ village dogs (which are much closer to domesticated dogs' ancestors than wolves are) when allowed to establish groups do not behave like wolves, either captive, or wild.

[Pykebird]

Until a couple of weeks ago I lived with 3 large dogs on my boat. The eldest a bitch was the alpha female, and both the younger bitch and the dog were rescued, and therefore introduced at different times.

When I got the dog he was on his as chance as although he hadn't biten anyone, he as going down a couple of weeks agond we hve gone a few steps backwards as he quite fancies her "job".

One of the imprtant things be aware of with dogs and aggresion is to never put yourself in the firing line, it hurts(I know). Use whatever you have to hand if they do get to the fight stage to try and seperate them, as said before terries will just keep going.

Neutering one of them WILL help as sex is a very strong drive in domminence. Keeping one of them in a cage could also help, but you wil need to reinforece which one is in charge by feeding that one first, walking that one first,etc but you cannot make one more domminant than the other they have to decide and act accordingly. Once they have decided peace should resume.

You may have to find a new home for one, and I don't envy you, but in the meantime, keep them in their own space, try a muzzle, cage etc and hopefully you will find a solutiin, god luck.

[Bod]

I can only recommend "The Dog Listener" by Jan Fennell.

 

We got it, when our Border Collie arrived, and found it a great help.

 

It puts you in charge in a way the dogs understand.

 

I belive there are trainers who use these techniques, all over the country, so looking at notice boards in country stores or pet stores may give a contact in your area.

 

All the usual disclaimers etc. just a reader who can see the logic of her approach.

 

Bod

[Taslim]

Until a couple of weeks ago I lived with 3 large dogs on my boat. The eldest a bitch was the alpha female, and both the younger bitch and the dog were rescued, and therefore introduced at different times.

When I got the dog he was on his as chance as although he hadn't biten anyone, he as going down a couple of weeks agond we hve gone a few steps backwards as he quite fancies her "job".

One of the imprtant things be aware of with dogs and aggresion is to never put yourself in the firing line, it hurts(I know). Use whatever you have to hand if they do get to the fight stage to try and seperate them, as said before terries will just keep going.

Neutering one of them WILL help as sex is a very strong drive in domminence. Keeping one of them in a cage could also help, but you wil need to reinforece which one is in charge by feeding that one first, walking that one first,etc but you cannot make one more domminant than the other they have to decide and act accordingly. Once they have decided peace should resume.

You may have to find a new home for one, and I don't envy you, but in the meantime, keep them in their own space, try a muzzle, cage etc and hopefully you will find a solutiin, god luck.

 

That makes sense esp the bit about getting in the firing line! Collateral damage WILL result. I have been known to use a CO2 extinguisher if they are big dogs.

 

I no longer own a dog but share my space with a group of semi ferule dogs, mostly related and of the Parsons terrier type. I think they are magic. Their owners wish them gone but they are good at guarding my Rayburn, wood burner and the mat by my bed and happily travel with me.

 

Away from the house and the truck they bump along well enough but indoors the stuff changes. The (now neutered) bitch defends her fave space. No probs. Her father and half brother......AAAAAAGH!

 

It started with a little 'swearing' but over time escalated to full on fights the last one of which cost me bad cuts and a base drum skin. Drum skins don't heal.

 

To my shame I lost the plot, grabbed the one on top (the father) and layed into him shouting OI!. I'm not proud of myself , it was nasty but he made a full submission. I then made much of him and gave him food.

 

We now have a situation where the dogs all still hang out here, though they don't belong here, and if there is any muttering from any of them I just say OI! The pack memory kicks in and things calm down.

 

A friend tried similar but couldn't carry it through and ended up re homing his much loved Staffie.

 

taslim.

[ionadragon]

My problem is this, i have 2 jack russell's, a bitch (18 months old) and a dog (4 years old) everything has been great up untill she had her 2nd season which ended a month ago (she is booked in to be spayed in march) they have begun trying to claim dominance and neither will give in and it end's in a bloodbath, i try to separate them as soon as it kick's off but by then it's already too late, this seem's to be a daily occurrence which start's with the dog growling at the bitch then all hell break's loose, every day it's get's more intense. has anyone got suggestion's on what can be done to stop it, i don't really want them to be separated as this would cause more problem's when they get together again.

 

It is not too late to have your male dog neutered and this may well help. You can get an idea of success by asking your vet to give him an injection of Tardak, which is a hormone preparation; if that works then so will neutering. You could also enquire if your vet has a behaviourist in the practice who could give you advice. Getting your bitch spayed sooner should also help. Two Jack Russell's can live together successfully, but your two are at the difficult end of the spectrum. Good luck!

[GoodGurl]

Thank you all for your input, yes star the dog has been castrated and this has only started since she finished her season and yes they did mate several times but lucky she wont be pregnant, thanks for the link the doghouse i will look into it, we have had both dogs from 8 weeks old the dog was about 18 months old when we had the bitch, they know we are dominant in the pack,they are both ok with other dogs.

sorry i cant do multi quote as internet is a bit dicey here.

[8 Hairy Feet]

Hmm I would want some expert

advice from a proper behaviorist,

Aptd uk (association of pet dog

trainers).

Forum members might mean well but

they cannot see what is

going on and i would guess are not

experts(neither am I)

It would be money well spent

if you don't want the situation

to escalate.

steffxxx

www.apdt.co.uk/

Edited December 17, 2012 by 8 Hairy Feet

[GoodGurl]

yes i think that is the way to go and hope it gets sorted.

[Phil Ambrose]

Not sure if there is a definitive answer, we fostered many dogs over a period of years and often had as many as 5 dogs in the house at a time. Every so often we would get one which was particularly dominant and the only answer was to pass that dog to another fosterer.

 

We moved aboard with a Yoodle, a Brichon Frise, a Bearded Colllie (all female neutered) and a GSD (male neutered) and the one dominant dog was the Beardie (Mollie the maggot) and we never managed to break her attitude.

 

Phil