Ruthless Eviction of Liveaboards from Fens Marina

[Biggles]

So can whe people accept the new charges and stay while the redevelopment work is undertaken?

 

The first rule of a profitable business is to charge what the market will stand. It will be interesting to see if these new charges are beyond that.

 

I have to admit that I do think everyone reads this forum if not necesserally taking part. I would be very supprised if out of all the boaters on that marina none of them were readers or possibly past contributors.

 

This river system certainly don't need another 60 wandering boats, there's just not the infrastructure to support it, especially if as I suspect many of them can't disperse beyond St. Ives or get into the middle levels.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Biggles

[jenlyn]

A marina business that tosses 60 odd boats out, hmm. Bit more to it than redevelopment I suspect. Anyone been to the local council nosing planning apps?

I would say that a business throwing its income out in such a way is pretty mental. Greed, people with money, the two go together. Even 33 grand is a nice little number. Of course, none of us have heard both sides, but throwing out 60 boats that are the bread and butter of your business speaks volumes about the owner. Either a massive communication breakdown with its customer base, or a ruddy big gamble that could pay dividends to the owner in a short space of time.

It still stinks, whatever the reason. Blacklist the place, don't use it.

[Biggles]

Edited for a better link.

 

From Fish and Duck website

Edited October 6, 2012 by Biggles

[Alan de Enfield]

Press release from the GOBA forum

 

Message :

"The board requires you to be registered and logged in to view this forum."

[jenlyn]

I understand the husband is a property developer. No idea what property he owns or deals with.

However, 9 houses on buy to let interest only mortgages, 15 grand a month payments to the banks, but 3 properties are empty and the letting market is a bit stagnant. Property developer looks at re arranging loans with bank including the marina in his business plan to tempt the bank?

[Grace and Favour]

A marina business that tosses 60 odd boats out, hmm. Bit more to it than redevelopment I suspect. Anyone been to the local council nosing planning apps?

I would say that a business throwing its income out in such a way is pretty mental. Greed, people with money, the two go together. Even 33 grand is a nice little number. Of course, none of us have heard both sides, but throwing out 60 boats that are the bread and butter of your business speaks volumes about the owner. Either a massive communication breakdown with its customer base, or a ruddy big gamble that could pay dividends to the owner in a short space of time.

It still stinks, whatever the reason. Blacklist the place, don't use it.

 

Aye - £33k IS a pleasant little number indeed,

 

But the loss of 60 boats mooring income (£120K?) is a lot less pleasant - and not something a business should readily lose, unless there is a workable longer term plan.

 

It may well be that the site is to be refurbished to an higher/more modern standard, it may be that the operators have decided that they simply don't want liveaboards, and they will be 're-focussing' their operation to the truly leisure market, (it could even be that they want to turn the marina into a Koi Carp farm)

 

Whatever their end plan - given the time of year, and location, and shortage of alternative moorings, I suggest the boaters have shot themselves in the foot/their feet, and I'd be busy trying to re-open discussions with the owners if I them, with a view to finding a way to reverse their leaving - even if it is only over this coming winter

 

Their comes a time when discussion and pride-swallowing should hold precedence over 'principle', and the ill-considered action by the boaters has to be reversed if at all possible

[jenlyn]

Aye - £33k IS a pleasant little number indeed,

 

But the loss of 60 boats mooring income (£120K?) is a lot less pleasant - and not something a business should readily lose, unless there is a workable longer term plan.

 

It may well be that the site is to be refurbished to an higher/more modern standard, it may be that the operators have decided that they simply don't want liveaboards, and they will be 're-focussing' their operation to the truly leisure market, (it could even be that they want to turn the marina into a Koi Carp farm)

 

Whatever their end plan - given the time of year, and location, and shortage of alternative moorings, I suggest the boaters have shot themselves in the foot/their feet, and I'd be busy trying to re-open discussions with the owners if I them, with a view to finding a way to reverse their leaving - even if it is only over this coming winter

 

Their comes a time when discussion and pride-swallowing should hold precedence over 'principle', and the ill-considered action by the boaters has to be reversed if at all possible

I agree with that, I suspect half a dozen of one, six of another. I also suspect your shot in the foot comment is just that, finished, too late. Forget plan A, look for plan B.

[Biggles]

I understand the husband is a property developer. No idea what property he owns or deals with.

However, 9 houses on buy to let interest only mortgages, 15 grand a month payments to the banks, but 3 properties are empty and the letting market is a bit stagnant. Property developer looks at re arranging loans with bank including the marina in his business plan to tempt the bank?

 

 

How did you find this? Doesn't sound like a profitable portfolio to me.

 

Message :

"The board requires you to be registered and logged in to view this forum."

 

 

Problem sorted

[jenlyn]

How did you find this? Doesn't sound like a profitable portfolio to me.

 

 

 

 

Problem sorted

No, it doesn't, but these are hard times

[boathunter]

From reading the link it seems that the £550/rent increase is nothing to do with the forced evictions which would have happened anyway so the owners could redevelop.

Putting the cost up was probably merely a ploy to get at least some of the residents to leave of their own volition and save them the hassle and bad press. Chucking 60 boats out would have been more news-worthy than chucking out perhaps 10 possibly scruffy "gypsy" boats with no engines after 50 had peacefully withdrawn...

Edited October 6, 2012 by boathunter

[jenlyn]

Edited for a better link.

 

From Fish and Duck website

Ah ok, they have been looking at Harleyford marina or buckden, holiday cabins and such. No room for liveaboards at that marina anymore, not in those numbers anyway.

[Tuscan]

I wonder what was the capacity of the marina - was it just 60? I would be very surprised if all 60 were live aboard. Surely they can refurbish and upgrade the marina without closing for moorers and can't redevelop without planning permission being granted and this would have been noticed.

 

Is 3 months notice of closure in the mooring agreements, I think mine is just a month, so are they giving more than the minimum period ?

[Roger Gunkel]

I wonder what was the capacity of the marina - was it just 60? I would be very surprised if all 60 were live aboard. Surely they can refurbish and upgrade the marina without closing for moorers and can't redevelop without planning permission being granted and this would have been noticed.

 

It is very easy to put your own interpretation on the facts which is what happens when a long thread develops and people forget some of the detail. My information from 3 of the residents is that there are 75 boats on the marina of which 62 are liveaboards. I haven't verified this personally, but trust the information from those on the marina.

 

One friend of mine moved from Upware marina to Popes Corner 3 weeks ago having arranged for his new liveaboard mooring directly with Davina and payed for a year in advance. Within 3 weeks he has now received the eviction notice, that to me shows a total lack of interest or compassion for people's lives.

 

There is also a posted comment about 10 gypsy or engineless boats, again pure groundless speculation with no evidence to support that. By all means make a case for the owners, but please base it on known facts not speculation.

 

The Fish & Duck website is spouting pure sales hype and is just an idea of what they intend to do, which backs up my original post stating that Davina wants a picturesque garden marina filled with pretty private luxury boats. There is also no mention of the fact that it has been made quite clear to existing berth holders that there will be no future provision for liveaboards.

 

SueB also made a comment about me offering to Join the RBOA and get involved. Firstly I am not involved in the problems at Popes Corner but am concerned about the possible knock on effect to other marina residents. My own new mooring has no connection with any marina. Secondly, I have no particular interest in the RBOA as I consider it another discussion group with no more or less influence than this forum. I'm sure that it offers a great source of information for those considering boat living, but would be more impressed if it was more aggressively involved in some of the disputes and problems on the inland waterways. I believe that direct rallying of support gives better results.

 

There was another comment further back in the thread that 'Boaters have shot themselves in the foot and should get back to negotiating' or words to that effect. I'm sorry, but can someone enlighten me as to what it is exactly boaters have done to shoot themselves in the foot, unless it is reading he eviction notice! I don't recall anywhere saying that the boaters had done anything unless someone knows something I don't. I simply relayed the news of the pending eviction of friends and acquaintencies and others from the marina.

 

Roger

[Tuscan]

So just to be clear had any of the live aboards including your friend who had just moved there (presumeably having agreed to pay the increased rate) agreed to pay the extra £550 per year for the live aboards.

[Tiger 1057]

 

One friend of mine moved from Upware marina to Popes Corner 3 weeks ago having arranged for his new liveaboard mooring directly with Davina and payed for a year in advance. Within 3 weeks he has now received the eviction notice, that to me shows a total lack of interest or compassion for people's lives.

Roger,

I know nothing of the terms and conditions of the contract into which your friend entered with 'Davina' however if I were him I would certainly seek legal advice at the earliest opportunity. On the basis that he has already paid for 'services' he MAY be entitled to some form of damages/compensation with regard to finding alternative moorings and expenses incurred.

It probably will not make any difference whatsoever with regard to the eviction notice but it may help him financially in the short term.

It may be the case that 'Davina' has already considered this course of action and decided that it is still financially viable for her to take the action she has done. It is similiar to a large company which fails to comply with employment law knowing that the long term gain outweighs the short term financial pain I.e. damages/compensation paid through any tribunal.

I make no comment regarding the situation as a whole as I don't know the full facts but what you say has occurred to your friend sounds exceptionally shabby treatment and on reflection actually is despicable

[lydfordcastle]

It is very easy to put your own interpretation on the facts which is what happens when a long thread develops and people forget some of the detail. My information from 3 of the residents is that there are 75 boats on the marina of which 62 are liveaboards. I haven't verified this personally, but trust the information from those on the marina...........

Roger

 

I've personally found this thread quite fascinating as the original post seems to have polarised the forum like no other before but it's all down to who or what you believe. I've got no axe to grind either way but unless things have changed dramatically since the Google satellite last overflew the area, there are no more than 65 boats in total moored on water plus a few out on dry land. Of the 65, no more than 40 seem to be big enough to be liveaboards, the rest appear to be mostly small plastic cruisers. It's quite clear from the satellite view that the majority of the boats moored either on the fen linear mooring or on the river linear mooring could be liveaboards as many have tended gardens and sheds but there's only a dozen or so of those. Of the boats in the marina proper, most appear to be small cruisers and those few big enough to be liveaboards appear to be moored in possibly very unnappealing positiions.

 

Overall the place looks a bit of a mess from the air and belies the web-site's claim to be an idyllic spot. I think if it was mine, I'd want to tidy it up a bit. However, it's main stumbling block is that it seems to be miles from anywhere which is OK if you have your own road transport but otherwise, not a good mooring and certainly not a good residential spot. It's also difficult to see how the owners intend to carry out an eviction other than by casting adrift which would open a legal minefield. Preventing access might also prove difficult as it would be easy to reach boats by tender.

 

I await further developments and postings with great interest.

[boathunter]

 

There is also a posted comment about 10 gypsy or engineless boats, again pure groundless speculation with no evidence to support that. By all means make a case for the owners, but please base it on known facts not speculation.

Roger, I was in no way making a case for the owners, but speculating on the rational behind their behaviour. I was trying to be realistic based on previous experience of developers and their typically self serving disregard for the lives of others. I think if you re-read my post this is obvious.

 

For the record, I'm as appalled as anyone, particularly in the light of your friends recent experience which I think says it all.

[sueb]

SueB also made a comment about me offering to Join the RBOA and get involved. Firstly I am not involved in the problems at Popes Corner but am concerned about the possible knock on effect to other marina residents. My own new mooring has no connection with any marina. Secondly, I have no particular interest in the RBOA as I consider it another discussion group with no more or less influence than this forum. I'm sure that it offers a great source of information for those considering boat living, but would be more impressed if it was more aggressively involved in some of the disputes and problems on the inland waterways. I believe that direct rallying of support gives better results.

 

 

Roger

You are wrong in stating that rboa has no more influence than this forum. Yes it is a discussion group if you include discussing the issues that concern liveaboards with BW/cart, Members of Parliament and civil servants. It is due to rboa and other user groups that BW/Cart don't bother if you live on your boat or not. These organisations are run by very few people who work incredibly hard, You possibly have no idea how much paperwork BW/Cart & EA produce, all to be read and discussed. RBOA is definately involved in the disputes and problems on the system.

I thought you lived aboard and you seemed to be concerned about your fellow boaters, which is why I suggested you got involved.

[Phil Ambrose]

On Thursday we had 10 empty spaces, Friday we had none. Today, Saturday at 9-00pm 2 boats turned up in the dark (one with no tunnel/spotlight) and settled themselves in. Looks like all that can are getting out.

 

Phil

[Roger Gunkel]

I spoke to the friend today who had just moved there and he does not expect to have any difficulty getting his money back. What he is annoyed about is that he had cancelled his BT line at the previous mooring, given up his private internet connection and made all the usual arrangements for address changes etc etc. he had also agreed to pay the surcharge , but now has managed to go back cap in hand to his previous mooring at Upware. He is one of the fortunate ones.

 

A number of the current liveaboards had agreed to pay the surcharge and I don't have any information on whether any had refused or were just unhappy about it.on top of the 25% increase. Suggestions that people refused to pay the surcharge are forum speculation. The information that I have is that the owners may have found that there would be legal difficulties imposing the surcharge in the way that they had intended, so withdrew it themselves.

 

As regards the Google Earth views, if you wish to base your opinion on what a photo a few years ago shows, then that is your choice. Personally I think that the information from those who live there now is likely to be somewhat more reliable.

 

SueB, as I said before, I'm sure that RBOA do valuable work, but if I get involved in things, I prefer to get into it by direct action, not sitting around talking and sorting through paperwork, laudable though that may be.

 

Boathunter, I understand what you are saying and I agree that there is always an element of run down boats and dubious people on many moorings. There may be a few boaters that the Popes Corner owners would prefer to get rid of for a number of reasons, but there are right and wrong ways of doing it. The most likely scenario is that the income from the 70 plus boats is not sufficient to justify the costs of making necessary improvements, maintaining the marina and making a profit to satisfy the owners. An upmarket marina with private lodges and monied people with expensive boats, potentially has a greater earning potential. Removing the requirements of liveaboards and their families also makes for more easily standardised moorings and an upmarket image.

 

The reality however is likely to me much different. The leisure boat industry is struggling, people with nice cruisers and surplus money are not easy to find and are unlikely to want to put their boats in a comparatively inaccessible marina in the middle of the somewhat unglamorous Fens. There is also another element to this, which is that it is difficult to secure a site such as that. In an area like the Fens, glossy unattended boats are going to attract undesirables and there has already been a spate of thefts and boat break-ins in the last couple of weeks at Ely Cathedral marina, which is in the middle of the city. Havinge liveaboards in a marina is a great security boost as they do tend to keep a lookout and are familiar with who should be there.

 

With a bit of forethought and compassion, the owners could have staggered a cost increase preceded by reasonable notification to the moorers. This could have been following a discussion period with the berth holders to explain the intended changes and point out the need for them to move off the moorings for a given period while improvements were made. There could also have been a new code of requirements for liveaboard moorers, coupled to a residential charge or higher rate in return for a guarantee of full residential status for the paid time period. People never like having to pay more, but it could all have been done in a much more sympathetic way to giving a more pleasant environment for the boaters and a greater return for the owners.

 

Roger

[boathunter]

 

Boathunter, I understand what you are saying and I agree that there is always an element of run down boats and dubious people on many moorings. There may be a few boaters that the Popes Corner owners would prefer to get rid of for a number of reasons, but there are right and wrong ways of doing it.

Roger, you do not understand what I'm saying at all. The more "dubious" and "run down" they are, the more support they'll get from me. Edited October 6, 2012 by boathunter

[John V]

Roger, you do not understand what I'm saying at all. The more "dubious" and "run down" they are, the more support they'll get from me.

I don't get that ,why?

[boathunter]

I tend to side with those that are struggling in life. It's the same as siding with th inhabitants of the marina rather than the developer, just on a different scale.

Edited October 7, 2012 by boathunter

[OldPeculier]

I emailed the owners to ask If they will be having any liveaboards when they re-open next year.

 

The reply was that they have no plans for residential moorings, just leisure moorings. Looks as if they are going up-market.

[John V]

I tend to side with those that are struggling in life. It's the same as siding with th inhabitants of the marina rather than the developer, just on a different scale.

 

Sorry, I think that is just knee jerking rather than a balanced decision