single handling locks

[chazzy]

As I said before I dont mind left open or closed, but I was rather peeved when I went up the Audlem flight last year, (from hire days I was taught always close gates) on every lock I had to close the top gates before I could set the lock, I also closed them on leaving, thinking now I should have left them open and the workload would have been the same.

 

I can see the gates open advantage but will only work if everyone does the same.

[carlt]

so custom and practise is wrong 99% of boaters are wrong, your right and everyone should change to suit your theorum, yeah I see it,we are stupid your intelligent,sorry for thinking any different to you, im sure you may annoy people though, but thats just my opinion based on experience.

It is not custom and practise it is a hang up from the days where you used to carry sand bags and sacks of ashes just to seal a lock enough to fill it up.

 

I did not accuse you of being stupid but you did accuse me of being lazy when I have thought the process through and decided to act in a way that is a benefit to the majority, not just myself.

 

After all, if I am wrong but my method catches on then surely I am disadvantaging myself?

 

I can see the gates open advantage but will only work if everyone does the same.

No it works well already, when some people do it.

 

It will work perfectly, though, when everybody does it.

[Timx]

I can see the argument for leaving the gate open, i do get it, but a uniformed approach is fair for everyone, and shutting the gate is etiquette, not yours, you do as you wish bcos you have your theory. I can live with it, I have a nice time anyway, and the selfishness of some small minority of boaters will not bother me.Single handed is a reason for you not wanting to help other people maybe, or maybe thats the reason your single handed lol.

[Paul C]

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This thread is like an IQ test - some people can do that maths and others cannot! It takes all sorts to make a world:-)

 

 

Yep. There's 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[matty40s]

I can see the argument for leaving the gate open, i do get it, but a uniformed approach is fair for everyone, and shutting the gate is etiquette, not yours, you do as you wish bcos you have your theory. I can live with it, I have a nice time anyway, and the selfishness of some small minority of boaters will not bother me.Single handed is a reason for you not wanting to help other people maybe, or maybe thats the reason your single handed lol.

You really do need a chill pill Tim.

 

I recently single handed the Hillmorton flight and helped a crew of 4 on a blackPrince hire boat through the adjoining locks (their first ever locks). We are not selfish, we are sensible..........the selfish ones are the ones that close lock gates in my face when they can see me coming in their determination to close all the gates.....

The reason I am single handed a lot is because I move boats for a living, along with the fact that my girlfriend has her own boat.

 

 

Looks for chip on shoulder smiley for Timx

[Speedwheel]

It is not custom and practise it is a hang up from the days where you used to carry sand bags and sacks of ashes just to seal a lock enough to fill it up.

 

I remember as a child that old carpet and tarps were essential equipment in some places. They sat on the cabin top ready to be deployed - I've got pics somewhere of them being used in anger.

 

Yep. There's 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

 

Greenie.

[Leo No2]

Surely one goes by the etiquette of the waterway you are on whether single-handed (as in my case) or 'mob'-handed.

 

My two local waterways operate to entirely different standards

 

• 
   
  
• The River Wey is close the paddle gear but leave the gates open as there's a 50/50 chance of the next boat coming in the opposite direction - there's usually plenty of water on the Wey
  
• The Basingstoke on the other hand is close (and seal as best you can) the gates and close the paddle gear - there's invariably a lack of water on the Basingstoke
  

 

I just work to the standards that apply on each waterway although I am working with the Basingstoke Canal Authority to change their etiquette to mirror that of the Wey, if possible, but that's proving a bit of a challenge. If gates swing open (when etiquette is leave closed) or swing closed (when the etiquette is leave open) that's just the way life is and it's up to us perhaps to make the navigation authority aware and for them to resolve the issue if thought appropriate.

 

If travelling on a waterway that I am unfamiliar with I'll try and ascertain what the local etiquette is and operate to that standard. When I first came off the Basingstoke and on to the Wey one of the things I did was ask the navigation authority (in this case the National Trust) what their etiquette was - it seems so simple to me but if that's the case I may have missed the point!

[Timx]

mm i seem to be a lone voice, i close the gates behind me because its custom and practise,even though its 50/50 on helping or hindering,Ithink your muddle minded or selfish. so some small minority want to be different, as is your choice, but i think you will annoy the majority, but you wont care so why am i arguing with such intelligence ha.just an observation.Maybe you should put your theory forward to cart to change things, and maybe put it that its a way of doing things and called after your name, your intelligence will be recognised that way and show how foolish all the other people are trying to be fair and courteous, ha .

Thats not to Kthryn, if local etiquette is different to the norm then thats fair enough, i was generalising, your point is completely valid.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Timx

[matty40s]

mm i seem to be a lone voice, i close the gates behind me because its custom and practise,even though its 50/50 on helping or hindering,Ithink your muddle minded or selfish. so some small minority want to be different, as is your choice, but i think you will annoy the majority, but you wont care so why am i arguing with such intelligence ha.just an observation.Maybe you should put your theory forward to cart to change things, and maybe put it that its a way of doing things and called after your name, your intelligence will be recognised that way and show how foolish all the other people are trying to be fair and courteous, ha .

[Midnight Rider]

The point is, the advantage is only to yourself by not closing the gates when leaving the lock

Yes, I think that you have hit the nail on the head. There are just a few boaters who will leave all & every gate open, open gates with the boat, open paddles before closing gates, drop rather than wind paddles down etc. If they are taken to task, there will always be an excuse, but in reality they are just lazy.

[carlt]

mm i seem to be a lone voice, i close the gates behind me because its custom and practise,even though its 50/50 on helping or hindering,Ithink your muddle minded or selfish. so some small minority want to be different, as is your choice, but i think you will annoy the majority, but you wont care so why am i arguing with such intelligence ha.just an observation.Maybe you should put your theory forward to cart to change things, and maybe put it that its a way of doing things and called after your name, your intelligence will be recognised that way and show how foolish all the other people are trying to be fair and courteous, ha .

It isn't "custom and practice" it is a hang up from when the canals were really poorly maintained and the locks were much worse than they are now.

 

It isn't 50/50 "helping or hindering" it is 50/50 helping or having no detrimental effect.

 

I am clear minded and not selfish but I can ignore your rudeness.

 

CRT don't need to change things. As has been mentioned before they sign locks that they believe should have the gates closed so perhaps they can see what you can't, also.

 

Yes, I think that you have hit the nail on the head. There are just a few boaters who will leave all & every gate open, open gates with the boat, open paddles before closing gates, drop rather than wind paddles down etc. If they are taken to task, there will always be an excuse, but in reality they are just lazy.

 

But that is not what is being discussed.

 

I always close paddles but know that closing gates helps nobody but hinders 50% of the time.

 

Not laziness, just common sense.

[Timx]

You really do need a chill pill Tim.

 

I recently single handed the Hillmorton flight and helped a crew of 4 on a blackPrince hire boat through the adjoining locks (their first ever locks). We are not selfish, we are sensible..........the selfish ones are the ones that close lock gates in my face when they can see me coming in their determination to close all the gates.....

The reason I am single handed a lot is because I move boats for a living, along with the fact that my girlfriend has her own boat.

 

 

Looks for chip on shoulder smiley for Timx

I appreciate what your saying,they probably close the gates because they think they have to not because they are being selfish, stupid maybe, but surely thats off topic.andf if i was your girl friend i would have my own boat as well.lol.

 

It isn't "custom and practice" it is a hang up from when the canals were really poorly maintained and the locks were much worse than they are now.

 

It isn't 50/50 "helping or hindering" it is 50/50 helping or having no detrimental effect.

 

I am clear minded and not selfish but I can ignore your rudeness.

 

CRT don't need to change things. As has been mentioned before they sign locks that they believe should have the gates closed so perhaps they can see what you can't, also.

 

 

 

But that is not what is being discussed.

 

I always close paddles but know that closing gates helps nobody but hinders 50% of the time.

 

Not laziness, just common sense.

 

so when someone has left the gates open, I dont have to shut them first before entering the lock from the other side?? join mensa instead of boating

[carlt]

 

so when someone has left the gates open, I dont have to shut them first before entering the lock from the other side?? join mensa instead of boating

I don't find that a hardship at all, as I've already moored and walked up to the lock to set it anyway.

 

Already a (lapsed) member, thanks.

[Tam & Di]

so custom and practise is wrong 99% of boaters are wrong, your right and everyone should change to suit your theorum, yeah I see it,we are stupid your intelligent,sorry for thinking any different to you, im sure you may annoy people though, but thats just my opinion based on experience.

 

Yes, modern custom and practice is WRONG if it means closing all gates behind you regardless of their water-tightness. Just doing what a load of other non-thinking people do does not make it right. I'm afraid your experience is rather limited and does not seem to involve brain, and hence your opinion is hare-brained.

 

Please do try to give it some thought, rather than engage in mindless response like this (I think you mean theory, rather than theorum). It may well annoy some people, but why does that make their way of going on correct? If you have some logical reason for closing all gates I would look at it, but saying it is what a lot of people do does not cut much ice.

[JDR]

I'm in the leave the gate open camp unless there are specific local instructions/reasons not to. In addition there are some scenarios where I cannot see any possible reason to close gates, on rivers next to weirs, and where the downstream landing stage is awkward/potentially unsafe then I would always leaves bottom gate(s) open going downhill (Eg: County and Fobney locks on K&A).

[Speedwheel]

so when someone has left the gates open, I dont have to shut them first before entering the lock from the other side??

 

Yes you do have to close them, but if you leave them open again when you leave you have not had to do any more gate movements and the number of times you have to get on and off the boat is reduced i.e you have done less work.

[Timx]

Yes, modern custom and practice is WRONG if it means closing all gates behind you regardless of their water-tightness. Just doing what a load of other non-thinking people do does not make it right. I'm afraid your experience is rather limited and does not seem to involve brain, and hence your opinion is hare-brained.

 

Please do try to give it some thought, rather than engage in mindless response like this (I think you mean theory, rather than theorum). It may well annoy some people, but why does that make their way of going on correct? If you have some logical reason for closing all gates I would look at it, but saying it is what a lot of people do does not cut much ice.

a theorem is a statement that has been proven on the basis of previously established statements, such as other theorems, and previously accepted statements, such as axioms. The derivation of a theorem is often interpreted as a proof of the truth of the resulting expression, but different deductive systems can yield other interpretations, depending on the meanings of the derivation rules. The proof of a theorem is a logical argument demonstrating that the conclusions are a necessary consequence of the hypotheses, in the sense that if the hypotheses are true then the conclusions must also be true, without any further assumptions. The concept of a theorem is therefore fundamentally deductive, in contrast to the notion of a scientific theory, which is empirical

[matty40s]

a theorem is a statement that has been proven on the basis of previously established statements, such as other theorems, and previously accepted statements, such as axioms. The derivation of a theorem is often interpreted as a proof of the truth of the resulting expression, but different deductive systems can yield other interpretations, depending on the meanings of the derivation rules. The proof of a theorem is a logical argument demonstrating that the conclusions are a necessary consequence of the hypotheses, in the sense that if the hypotheses are true then the conclusions must also be true, without any further assumptions. The concept of a theorem is therefore fundamentally deductive, in contrast to the notion of a scientific theory, which is empirical

 

 

More more.....we are not worthy....

 

[Ray T]

Gosh ! This thread is more contentious than pump out vs cassette.

[PiRSqwared]

Please reveal to me now how my having to limp a longer distance benefits me. I would love to know as I don't have a room quiet enough for me to work that one out.

If the lock is in your favour you are saved mooring up, opening the gates and then returning to your boat, casting off and then going into the lock. Surely that is more effort saved than the extra work when the lock is against you of having to close the exiting gates. Over time there should be 50/50 with/against so there is a net effort saving.

[Timx]

He started it lol

[davet45]

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/features/how-do-locks-work

 

Is not the official view on how to operate a lock?

[Duchess Omnium]

I'm very interested to read this thread. I always close the gates behond me because I was taught this was protocol (and nearly everyone does it), but -- except for leakage issue -- it always seemed daft to me, for exactly the reasons Carl, Matty, and others have put forward. I knew a few people didn't believe in closing the gates, but I didn't realise quite so many...

 

I'll probably still close the gates, because I'll worry that people will think I'm rude if I don't... but it would be so much better if we could all agree that it is polite to leave them open! Meanwhile, yes, thank you to those who are non conformist enough to leave them open. Nothing I like to see more than an open lock when I am on my own.

[Paul C]

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/features/how-do-locks-work

 

Is not the official view on how to operate a lock?

 

 

 

Indeed it is.

[matty40s]

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/features/how-do-locks-work

 

Is not the official view on how to operate a lock?

Dave, the official view is rubbish, if I left the locks going up to Cowroast full on the way up, I would be rightly castigated for flooding the lock cottage basements........

If you know the waterways, you do what is right for the locks you are working.... in the evening, especially in the winter months, I would attempt to close them all, however, wouldn't fight to achieve it.