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Red Diesel...At last the facts!


Roger Gunkel

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18 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Expedient: convenient and practical although possibly improper or immoral

So not really!

"Expediently is defined as something done quickly or efficiently, or an answer or solution based on what is right or just. If you are checked in for your flight and whisked through security in a total of five minutes flat, this is an example of when you move expediently." So yes, really! 

 

Edited by rgreg
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43 minutes ago, rgreg said:

"Expediently is defined as something done quickly or efficiently, or an answer or solution based on what is right or just. If you are checked in for your flight and whisked through security in a total of five minutes flat, this is an example of when you move expediently." So yes, really! 

 

No. If is were whisked through in 5 minutes whilst complying with all the criteria, that would be expeditious. If I got through in 5 minutes because the airport staff realised that if they went through the correct procedures I'd miss my flight, but since I was white and well spoken I probably wasn't a threat, that would be expedient.

with expedient, there is an element of corner cutting as the primary definition as well as a possible element of speed in some cases as a secondary implication. Expeditious means doing it quickly without cutting corners.

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3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No. If is were whisked through in 5 minutes whilst complying with all the criteria, that would be expeditious. If I got through in 5 minutes because the airport staff realised that if they went through the correct procedures I'd miss my flight, but since I was white and well spoken I probably wasn't a threat, that would be expedient.

with expedient, there is an element of corner cutting as the primary definition as well as a possible element of speed in some cases as a secondary implication. Expeditious means doing it quickly without cutting corners.

Cows droppings :rolleyes:

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Choose Your Words

expedient/expeditious

Something expedient is helpful to you. If you vote your friend in for student body president just because you know she'll hook you up — that's an expedient choice. But expeditious is speedy, like your expeditious exit from the voting booth because you know didn't do the right thing. 

Expedient describes a politically advantageous choice. Expedient also describes something that's good for you or something that's useful. It dates back to the 1400s and has its roots in Old French (expedient) and Latin (expedientem). Here are some expedient examples:

Should the government, which promised to protect airline passengers last year, do the expedient thing — or the right thing? (Seattle Times)

But Mr. Kim's defiance, at times unshakeable, has been known to soften when politically expedient. (New York Times)

On the other hand, expeditious isn't up to anything, it just means speedy or prompt. Expeditious entered English in the late 1400s via expedition, which also has roots in Old French and Latin. If you want to speed things up, use expeditious:

Mr. Fine remains hopeful of a credible and expeditious review of the relevant issues by law enforcement authorities. (Seattle Times)

The bill was given an expeditious passage as the Senate suspended order 79 of its standing rules to amend the National Minimum Wage Act. (All Africa)

Although expedient and expeditious come from the same Latin root word for "to make ready or to prompt," they parted ways by the 1600s, when expedient became self-serving. Use expedient for "advantageous" and expeditious for "speedy," like how fast you plan for an expedition to Antarctica, or across the street.

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9 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No. If is were whisked through in 5 minutes whilst complying with all the criteria, that would be expeditious. If I got through in 5 minutes because the airport staff realised that if they went through the correct procedures I'd miss my flight, but since I was white and well spoken I probably wasn't a threat, that would be expedient.

with expedient, there is an element of corner cutting as the primary definition as well as a possible element of speed in some cases as a secondary implication. Expeditious means doing it quickly without cutting corners.

Well the definition was copied straight from the dictionary so, however much you dispute it, I maintain that Mrsmelly used it, in context, correctly.

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17 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Well the definition was copied straight from the dictionary so, however much you dispute it, I maintain that Mrsmelly used it, in context, correctly.

I refer you to the discourse on the difference which I posted earlier, which explains it much better than I did.

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13 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I refer you to the discourse on the difference which I posted earlier, which explains it much better than I did.

Alternative meanings. Whilst expeditiously would have been a more appropriate word to use, expediently was not entirely incorrect.

expediently

 
adverb
Expediently is defined as something done quickly or efficiently, or an answer or solution based on what is right or just.


Read more at http://www.yourdictionary.com/expediently#Hpu7GZlLZMbQAWpD.99

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Looks like an old thread but i'd like to throw out a question...

Did my old Bukh engine, and similar, run on red diesel once upon a time?  If so the old engines must have been built to handle it..

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On 09/08/2017 at 21:12, nicknorman said:

The moral being that, just like the bible, the internet provides the opportunity to prove whatever you want to prove!

 

Hold on a sec. All the bible proves is that God exists. 

Can't see any problems with that, can anyone else??

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50 minutes ago, Tom766 said:

Looks like an old thread but i'd like to throw out a question...

Did my old Bukh engine, and similar, run on red diesel once upon a time?  If so the old engines must have been built to handle it..

Yep.  My Kelvin  (when not running on petrol) has run the last 29 years on gas oil and red diesel. The only stipulation from the makers was that the fuel had to be clean and with aviscosity less than 35 seconds redwood.

N7

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On 06/07/2006 at 21:03, Roger Gunkel said:

Hi Dor,

My Hydronic 5 is now working again as of yesterday and I will be updating my report thread shortly for a full report.

 

The Eber will run on red diesel, but the problem is it will coke up comparatively quickly as my experience and others has shown. There has been a constant reluctance to face up to the problem and be open about it.

If potential buyers know of the problems and the circumstances that may help to extend the running on red diesel, then a balanced and informed decision can be made.

 

There has been a big smokescreen put up regarding the fuel and I hope that honesty can prevail to the benefit of all.

 

Roger

Whio has an eleven year old  Eber. The previous owners had it decoked once and a timer replaced, probably as a result of a low voltage issue. In the five years we have had it, it has never missed a beat, touchwood running about 40 hrs per year, We last ran it two days ago

I was advised :

They are basically fix when breaks, ie no routine servicing.

Coking can be minimised by minimising low fire running, and by returning the unit to a period of high fire running before shutdown. For space heating we generally have the bedroom and it's radiator closed off heating only the saloon and towel rail.

If the Eber has dropped down to low fire mode before shutdown we will open up the bedroom radiator to provoke it up to high fire for about 5 minutes to hopefully burn off some coke before shutdown.

We were advised that they are intolerant of low voltage, especially at start up. One hire company we know instructs hirers to run the engine before pushing the start button.

I do not know about UK fuel supplies but in NZ, at one stage diesel fuel was all sold as a uniform product but that during the winter the colder regions were supplied with diesel that had a lower wax point temperature. That is the Summer diesel would wax at above the lowest of winter temperatures. This caused problems if somebody had bought a load of fuel in the summer to heat their greenhouse, then when in the depths of a winter frost wax would clog the burners.

Don

 

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19 hours ago, Tom766 said:

thats good news jarrah as i'm getting the red stuff for 50p a litre :D

Assuming that is 'agricultural use' (as that's about what I am paying) then you may be advised not to use it in your boat, as for boat use, Red Diesel has 'Duty' added.

Whilst you may well 'do it' it is not a good idea to advertise the fact.

There are rules about paying duty for running the engine for moving the boat, (called 'propulsion') but not paying duty for running the engine to produce 'electricity, heat etc' (called domestic use)

When you buy your fuel from a marina etc then you make a declaration regarding what percentage of usage is for each type - a typical declaration would be 60/40 (60% propulsion and 40% domestic) and the seller will work out how much tax you have to pay.

Alternatively - if you are paying 50p for 'duty paid' red diesel maybe you could 'spread the word' so others can benefit as well.

 

Just as a side issue - it was recently reported that four UK boats passing thru Belgium waters have been stopped by Belgium customs and have had their tanks 'dipped', those with ANY trace of red diesel have been fined Euro500. The 'Cruising Association GB' are trying to resolve the issue with the EU and all fines are currently on hold.

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Oh no as I'd been paying 40% of my income in tax for many years i've never shirked responsibility in that respect.

Was considering some sort of diesel heater of course.  Wonder how many self employed could say the same :)

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I have an assortment of oils which are mainly for diesels engines, old and new, is it OK to add a bit to diesel to get some use out of it, or should they be kept "just in case", which is how I accumulated them?

Edited by LadyG
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