Red Diesel...At last the facts!

[Yoda]

Yes, you can use it as a jet engine fuel, with adjustment to the fuel system but I strougly suggest not using it with anything else within internal combustion engines.

[boater75]

During the 70s i worked on mobile cranes and many of them had eber,s fitted and boy were they crap, you ask the poor driver sitting in his cold frozen cab for 10 hours a day about eber,s, so as good as we were at servicing the things they tended to freeze up and wax up the red so we used to add a little petrol during the winter months this stopped the fuel freezing and ensured the ignition sequence nearly every time! now i wouldnt recomend this method but when youre cold you will try anything to get warm.My boat has a Bubble which is fantastic and very economical but the sister boat to ours is always in trouble, so my recomendation is always fire up your heating system every time you get on your boat and as i have found boats that do not have hook up will probably have suffered from a voltage drop in the batteries and this can lead to ignition failure the Bubble requires full power to ignite or to have the engine running and then she fires but if i let the batteries get down the burner injects but ignition does not occur?

[pagan witch]

The difference though with a Webasto is that they are dead easy to strip down and service oneself, if needs be, with easy access to spares and telephone help in the UK. They also don't seem to mind running on red diesel.

 

Chris

 

Mine has always run on red and continues to do so. I can strip it down (and did so yesterday) with 1 alan key, 1 flat screwdriver, 1 phillips screwdriver and spanners / sockets in 10, 13, 14 mm.

 

I do however agree that the phrase 'customer service' as far as Eber in the UK goes is a contradiction in terms. On the up side however as they are fitted to so many commercial vehicles service agents are very easy to find and in my experience always cheaper and quicker than marina based agents.

[bottle]

During the 70s i worked on mobile cranes and many of them had eber,s fitted and boy were they crap, you ask the poor driver sitting in his cold frozen cab for 10 hours a day about eber,s, so as good as we were at servicing the things they tended to freeze up and wax up the red so we used to add a little petrol during the winter months this stopped the fuel freezing and ensured the ignition sequence nearly every time! now i wouldnt recomend this method but when youre cold you will try anything to get warm.My boat has a Bubble which is fantastic and very economical but the sister boat to ours is always in trouble, so my recomendation is always fire up your heating system every time you get on your boat and as i have found boats that do not have hook up will probably have suffered from a voltage drop in the batteries and this can lead to ignition failure the Bubble requires full power to ignite or to have the engine running and then she fires but if i let the batteries get down the burner injects but ignition does not occur?

 

I read that as a fuel problem not the Erbaspacher's fault.

[pagan witch]

the Bubble requires full power to ignite or to have the engine running and then she fires but if i let the batteries get down the burner injects but ignition does not occur?

 

I was out boating over the festive and we were mooring up at around 4:30, then running the Ebby for at least 3 - 4 hours during the evening. Still started next morning and ran for it's timed 2 hours. We also run a domestic fridged / freezer off of a 2Kw inverter and other than adding one additional battery so that we now have 4 X 110 instead of 3 the boat's 12v system is as it was ex-hire - no charge controllers etc.

 

Can't see that needing to start the engine or not being able to use anything electrical all night so that you can get the heating started is a fair trade off for a bit of a service.

[Roger Gunkel]

After many long weeks of having no internet access again, the first thing I see is one of my old threads, so I couldn't resist having a say!

 

Nice to hear that Pagan Witch's Eber is still working after 3-4 hours running. I have a second small boat with an old Eber that has run with no trouble and no servicing for over 5 years. However, I doubt that it has covered more than 50 hours in all that time.

 

I would be interested to know Pagan Witch, how many hours yours runs between you servicing it. As you drew parallels with your new Citroen car, I'm sure you would have been less than amused if it failed after 2 months, then again totally at 4000 miles on Christmas Eve on a freezing night and you had to wait 3 weeks with no other transport, to get it serviced, or should I say replaced 3 times!

 

Since installing my solid fuel stove and relegating my 3rd new Eberspacher to water heating in the morning only, it finally failed again a few weeks ago after many months of water heating, on a grand total of 920 hours, according to my Eberspacher engineer installed diagnostic system. It also showed an inconclusive fault code, which could be heat sensor failure. If I was still using it as 'Central Heating For Boats', to quote the current sales blurb, that would amount to about 38 days, used 24 hours a day as a liveaboard heating system. My last house had an oil fired heating system that used to run all winter with a once a year service as recommended by the manufacturers.

 

Incidentally my solid fuel stove has not been out since the middle of November, coal has cost me a third of the cost of diesel when running the Eber, gives me a constant supply of hot water from the kettle, heats the whole boat and has never broken down once. For the price I paid for the Eber system, I could have bought 10 stoves, which, if I replaced one every 5 years would last 50 years, by which time I will certainly be dead!

 

Good luck with your diesel heaters and a happy (and warm) new year.

 

Roger Gunkel

[pagan witch]

After many long weeks of having no internet access again, the first thing I see is one of my old threads, so I couldn't resist having a say!

 

Nice to hear that Pagan Witch's Eber is still working after 3-4 hours running. I have a second small boat with an old Eber that has run with no trouble and no servicing for over 5 years. However, I doubt that it has covered more than 50 hours in all that time.

 

I would be interested to know Pagan Witch, how many hours yours runs between you servicing it. As you drew parallels with your new Citroen car, I'm sure you would have been less than amused if it failed after 2 months, then again totally at 4000 miles on Christmas Eve on a freezing night and you had to wait 3 weeks with no other transport, to get it serviced, or should I say replaced 3 times!

 

 

Good luck with your diesel heaters and a happy (and warm) new year.

 

Roger Gunkel

 

 

I'd like to point out that the 3 -4 hours was the average time it spent on each night and then another shot of 2 hours in the morning in response to someone else posting saying that their Kabola insisted on the engine running or very full battery bank.

 

We are liveaboard and at the moment it is set to come on via timer for 2 hours each morning - we then use it for another hour or so during the day - normally for hot water purposes rather than heating and then in the evening it will be on for 3 - 4 hours depending on the weather outside, how many of us are onboard and how much we''ve used the oven. If we work on an average of 6 hours a day during winter that probably wouldn't be far wrong so we are using it around 40 hours a week. .

 

In summer of course it gets less hammer, we turn the radiators off and it just does the odd hour here and there for hot water.

 

For peace of mind I service it twice a year based on when I think it should be done to try and head off the breakdowns

 

We've been liveaboard for 3 years now and the boat was an ex Black Prince that had been used as a liveaboard for around 2 years before we bought it so the heater certainly isn't in it's flush of youth. We had to replace its' brain last year as it died and we have replaced the burner unit and the air blower motor - which to be fair was a bit noisy when we bought the boat.

 

I accept they aren't perfect but then nothing is. I don't have the space for a solid fuel system yet - but will install one when space permits - like some of the encumbant crew get old enough to move out ) But I can see no good reason to rid the Ebby. Even allowing for continually rising fuel costs it still does a good and effortless job for us.

 

I'd be well hacked off if it failed within 2 months but the same did happen to my car. It failed with an 'anti polution system' warning, it was then off road for 3 days at the dealership, came back for 1 day and then failed with the same fault the next day. Got a new car !

 

Sometimes life sucks.

[Fuel__2001]

I'd like to point out that the 3 -4 hours was the average time it spent on each night and then another shot of 2 hours in the morning in response to someone else posting saying that their Kabola insisted on the engine running or very full battery bank.

 

We are liveaboard and at the moment it is set to come on via timer for 2 hours each morning - we then use it for another hour or so during the day - normally for hot water purposes rather than heating and then in the evening it will be on for 3 - 4 hours depending on the weather outside, how many of us are onboard and how much we''ve used the oven. If we work on an average of 6 hours a day during winter that probably wouldn't be far wrong so we are using it around 40 hours a week. .

 

In summer of course it gets less hammer, we turn the radiators off and it just does the odd hour here and there for hot water.

 

For peace of mind I service it twice a year based on when I think it should be done to try and head off the breakdowns

 

We've been liveaboard for 3 years now and the boat was an ex Black Prince that had been used as a liveaboard for around 2 years before we bought it so the heater certainly isn't in it's flush of youth. We had to replace its' brain last year as it died and we have replaced the burner unit and the air blower motor - which to be fair was a bit noisy when we bought the boat.

 

I accept they aren't perfect but then nothing is. I don't have the space for a solid fuel system yet - but will install one when space permits - like some of the encumbant crew get old enough to move out ) But I can see no good reason to rid the Ebby. Even allowing for continually rising fuel costs it still does a good and effortless job for us.

 

I'd be well hacked off if it failed within 2 months but the same did happen to my car. It failed with an 'anti polution system' warning, it was then off road for 3 days at the dealership, came back for 1 day and then failed with the same fault the next day. Got a new car !

 

Sometimes life sucks.

 

Well i always follow a good eberspacher rant and our hydronic 10 has taken a battering since we've had it wich is about 3 years. We are live aboard and with a child that is younger than the eber by a few months. This has dictated the use which currently stands at about 4500 running hours. Is it upto a domestic use, i dunno how well those hours stand upto other appliances.

 

Red deisel/gas oil just never worked for us and was just high maintinance for the amount of use., especially as it just messes with the burner.

 

We used kerosene/paraffin and this has never let us down. The only down side was continually going to the local garage to buy it off the pump.

 

The only parts its needed since the warrenty expired is 2 glow plugs, a brain and a blower.

 

Weve made another fuel switch this winter and are trying ultra low sulphar gas oil. this fuel seems to be working fine. Im sure if it was regular gas oil the eber wouldve got coked up. Hopefully now we can put this fuel in the main tank and run the eber and engine from the same fuel tank.

 

We just need to get the main deisel tank on the boat made bigger by 250 litres so we can take a 500L tanker load. Should be possible as we are on a wide beam.

 

check out Q.7 of the support page

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi Fuel2007

 

I did think of running on kerosene, although Eberspacher wouldn't support that from my guarantee point of view. It would also have meant a seperate tank and difficulty with supplies. Now that I am just about out of guarantee and intend to do my own servicing, I might well reconsider the kerosene tank option.

 

How does the cost of low sulphur gas oil compare with red diesel as that could be a good alternative. Presumably though, once red diesel disappears, Low sulphur gas oil in your main tank will be taxed at the same rate as road diesel, so a seperate tank may still be needed.

 

Roger

[Fuel__2001]

Hi Fuel2007

 

I did think of running on kerosene, although Eberspacher wouldn't support that from my guarantee point of view. It would also have meant a seperate tank and difficulty with supplies. Now that I am just about out of guarantee and intend to do my own servicing, I might well reconsider the kerosene tank option.

 

How does the cost of low sulphur gas oil compare with red diesel as that could be a good alternative. Presumably though, once red diesel disappears, Low sulphur gas oil in your main tank will be taxed at the same rate as road diesel, so a seperate tank may still be needed.

 

Roger

 

 

Hi Roger

 

I have a hydronic 10 which does run on paraffin, as stated in eber literature. I called eber so not to assume that the hydronic would run on kerosene. Anyway the upshot is its ok to this to and didnt affect my warrenty and has run flawlessly for the last 2 years on kerosene.

 

ULSGO (ultra low sulphr gas oil) was about 53p/l when ordering 500L. Kerosene was cheaper i think by approx 10p/l. Like you i think the split tank is deffinately the way to go but to have one tank at 500L and another about 100L. This is so you can order a tanker load.

 

John

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi Roger

 

I have a hydronic 10 which does run on paraffin, as stated in eber literature. I called eber so not to assume that the hydronic would run on kerosene. Anyway the upshot is its ok to this to and didnt affect my warrenty and has run flawlessly for the last 2 years on kerosene.

 

ULSGO (ultra low sulphr gas oil) was about 53p/l when ordering 500L. Kerosene was cheaper i think by approx 10p/l. Like you i think the split tank is deffinately the way to go but to have one tank at 500L and another about 100L. This is so you can order a tanker load.

 

John

 

Thanks for that John, I will definately think about the kerosene tank after I have overhauled the Eber.

 

Roger

[Yoda]

Hi Roger

 

I have a hydronic 10 which does run on paraffin, as stated in eber literature. I called eber so not to assume that the hydronic would run on kerosene. Anyway the upshot is its ok to this to and didnt affect my warrenty and has run flawlessly for the last 2 years on kerosene.

 

ULSGO (ultra low sulphr gas oil) was about 53p/l when ordering 500L. Kerosene was cheaper i think by approx 10p/l. Like you i think the split tank is deffinately the way to go but to have one tank at 500L and another about 100L. This is so you can order a tanker load.

 

John

 

Kerosene has doubled in price within a year. I have just ordered 1000 lts which is the lowest economical amount.

[ashanta]

Well, this is pretty much as I thought it was.

 

Many of you know I asm a fan of the gas Alde boiler for as number of reasons. What I find remarkable is that, in view of the huge number of complaints, boat builders still install diesel boilers.

 

Even NBW did a piece on the poor reliability of Eberspacher boilers a few years ago now, and yet they still get away with bullsh!22ing their customers that their product is fine for use on boats.

 

Perhaps it is time now for trading standards to get involved, as Eberspascher and others are clearly misleading their customers.

 

Meanwhile I would recommend anyone to fit an Alde. Ok, they may be a bit expensive to run compared to a diesel one, but if you have to buy DERV to get them to run, I suspect they will work out cheaper. Especially as you can just turn them on when you want them, and turn them off when you don't. Doesn't upset them at all!

 

PS: excellent customer service as well - ring them up, speak to an engineer who will talk sense to you.

 

 

Erbacher sell heaters specifically for yachts and mobo's. Trouble is many people fit the Erbachers that are for trucks

[steelaway]

Erbacher sell heaters specifically for yachts and mobo's. Trouble is many people fit the Erbachers that are for trucks

 

I cured all my starting problems by repacing the 2.5 mm feed cable for 6mm, I suspect volts drop due to a serious demand for a high voltage and high current at start up.

Also check the air filter is perfect and the exhaust is clear, it will only work well if the blower fan has an easy life.

[Lol]

I cured all my starting problems by repacing the 2.5 mm feed cable for 6mm, I suspect volts drop due to a serious demand for a high voltage and high current at start up.

Also check the air filter is perfect and the exhaust is clear, it will only work well if the blower fan has an easy life.

 

also that the air inlet is below 25DegC as atated in the installation instuctions, i.e. not from the engine compartment

[ditchcrawler]

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Reported

[mrsmelly]

Jeesus nearly four years since Roger Gunkel posted!! shame he was a good contributer.

[NB Lola]

Dodgy spammer now banned

[mrsmelly]

8 minutes ago, NB Lola said:

Dodgy spammer now banned

And very expediently too.

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

And very expediently too.

Do you mean expeditiously?

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Do you mean expeditiously?

Yeah probably  sommett to do wiv speed anyway!!

[rgreg]

Expediently is quite acceptable 

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Expediently is quite acceptable 

Expedient: convenient and practical although possibly improper or immoral

So not really!

[NB Lola]

7 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Expediently is quite acceptable 

To me it is

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Expedient: convenient and practical although possibly improper or immoral

So not really!

Well having checked Mr google now myself there are other definitions some of which would concur with my useage