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Sad story of Carbon Monoxide death


DeanS

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It's incredible how many people don't realise the danger.

 

I guess we've become detached from that kind of thing, as a kid many of my relatives had a coal fire at home and we were taught the dangers. Now I guess the first time people might come into contact with fires is on a campsite and they may not know about Carbon Monoxide.

 

Very sad.

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Tragic but in this day and age of info overload one wonders if the Dawin theory overrides it all.

 

But no one should die to disprove this especially an innocent child.

Edited by Biggles
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I think this incident was the third this year, and there were several last year.

There has been much publicity in the camping press and forums about not using BBQ's inside tents and it is even stated on the packaging, but it doesn't seem to be getting through.

My condolences.

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I sometimes (well quite often actually) think that the more the H&S tells us what we can and can't do, the more people stop thinking for themselves.

 

There was also a case recently where someone fell down a cliff, apparently after climbing over the fence separating the path from the edge.

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Agreed it's monoxide not dioxide. Mono meaning one, one oxygen atom in this case. Simple mistake, I call it CO2 sometimes by mistake aswell!

 

co2 will give the same result at stronger concentrations.........

 

Tim

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It's not quite the same as CO2 which is pretty harmless and would be the same as any gas displacing the required level of oxygen for respiration. Nitrogen is 79% of the air but if it goes up a few % then you'll pass out through lack of oxygen. CO actually does something nasty with the blood and prevents it from oxygenating. So even if you get to fresh air you're not necessarily out of the woods and may even require a blood transfusion.

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Last year...in a cold snap...I removed the ash pan from my Morso and put the spare in.

I thought the one I removed was only warm and put it under the stove ready to empty the next day.

 

An hour later...all hell let lose with my carbon monoxide alarms.

Buried in the pan...was a still glowing ember....and it was rapidly causing a build up of deadly gas...

 

If not for the alarms....overnight...we could have been killed..

 

A lesson learned !!

  • Greenie 1
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carbon monoxide is the product of incomplete combustion of coal or wood (or hydrocarbon gases or liquids), which typically happens when there is a shortage of oxygen (e.g. smouldering barbecue or ashpan embers).

....... be warned.

 

 

complete combustion results in carbon dioxide which is non-toxic; it will not build up to dangerous proportions in a normally ventilated space.

use of a carbon dioxide extinguisher in an enclosed space can be dangerous if you do not immediately vacate the space, and then ventilate it well before re-entry.

Edited by ChrisPy
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It's incredible how many people don't realise the danger.

Indeed, and it is also shocking how many people on this board think all that is involved in safe gas installation is avoiding gas leaks.

 

On another tack, any solid fuel appliance chucks out CO in spades when alight, even when well damped down. Especially when well damped down in fact, as this is the condition where the combustion is being most starved of oxygen. I use a combustion analyser in my work and if I wave the wand in the space above lit coals in a coal fire, it shuts itself down with a 'CO cell overload' error message. Quite worrying. All this CO needs to go up the chimney and will only do so if there is sufficient fresh air entering the cabin/room/whatever, and peeps do NOT generally attach much importance to the air vents to outside which perform this function.

 

I'm surprised how few deaths are attributed to CO poisoning from solid fuel fires.

 

Mike

 

(Edited to correct a sentence construction error, and add the bit about ventilation.))

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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Last year...in a cold snap...I removed the ash pan from my Morso and put the spare in.

I thought the one I removed was only warm and put it under the stove ready to empty the next day.

 

An hour later...all hell let lose with my carbon monoxide alarms.

Buried in the pan...was a still glowing ember....and it was rapidly causing a build up of deadly gas...

 

If not for the alarms....overnight...we could have been killed..

 

A lesson learned !!

 

We learned the same lesson in a similar way - ash bucket in the cratch rather than outdoors, an unnoticed smouldering ember, CO alarm (at the other end of the boat) sounding at 2am. We evacuated and spent the night in our tent (luckily it's a popup!) as I was too scared to go back in.

 

We now have 2 CO alarms, one digital near the stove (positioned as per manufacturer's instructions) and a second in the bedroom, just for additional peace of mind. Plus smoke alarms of course. Can't be too careful.

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We learned the same lesson in a similar way - ash bucket in the cratch rather than outdoors, an unnoticed smouldering ember, CO alarm (at the other end of the boat) sounding at 2am. We evacuated and spent the night in our tent (luckily it's a popup!) as I was too scared to go back in.

 

We now have 2 CO alarms, one digital near the stove (positioned as per manufacturer's instructions) and a second in the bedroom, just for additional peace of mind. Plus smoke alarms of course. Can't be too careful.

 

 

Congratulations! You are one of the very few to use the correct word in this context. As for the others - I could give them a piece of my mind!!

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It's not quite the same as CO2 which is pretty harmless and would be the same as any gas displacing the required level of oxygen for respiration. Nitrogen is 79% of the air but if it goes up a few % then you'll pass out through lack of oxygen. CO actually does something nasty with the blood and prevents it from oxygenating. So even if you get to fresh air you're not necessarily out of the woods and may even require a blood transfusion.

 

I think CO is absorbed by hemoglobin in red blood cells in preference to oxygen - so if CO is present it will be absorbed by the blood and prevent oxygenation. Unfortunately the chemical absorption reaction just happens more easily with CO compared to O2. I don't know what happens chemically after that once the CO is in the bloodstream and cells of the body, but I guess because the cells can't use CO it just sits there?

 

Bad design I say! Why didn't the intelligent designer who concocted hemoglobin take into account its predilection for carbon monoxide?

Edited by blackrose
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Bad design I say! Why didn't the intelligent designer who concocted hemoglobin take into account its predilection for carbon monoxide?

I think there is a short and easy answer to that one!

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I think CO is absorbed by hemoglobin in red blood cells in preference to oxygen - so if CO is present it will be absorbed by the blood and prevent oxygenation. Unfortunately the chemical absorption reaction just happens more easily with CO compared to O2. I don't know what happens chemically after that once the CO is in the bloodstream and cells of the body, but I guess because the cells can't use CO it just sits there?

 

That's about it. The problem is that once a molecule of CO is bound to haemoglobin, it doesn't unbind very easily and therefore takes that haemoglobin out of action for oxygen transport. The CO in the body doesn't do much harm, but at dangerous levels of atmospheric CO more and more haemoglobin gets taken out of action by binding CO. When enough is inactivated, there too little to transport oxygen. That's why relatively low levels of CO can be a problem is the exposure time is long. Very high CO levels get you quick, but much lower CO levels can still get you over many hours of exposure as more and more heamoglogin in deactivated.

 

Bad design I say! Why didn't the intelligent designer who concocted hemoglobin take into account its predilection for carbon monoxide?

The design was done long before those jumped-up apes started playing with fire..........

 

 

MP.

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Please don't jest about this very serious subject. Nearly 19 years ago 2 young friends died of CO poisoning in a rented house. It hurt then and it still hurts now that 2 men at the beginning of their life were killed by the poor workmanship of an incompotent gas fitter and a cheapskate landlord (who went to prison}. My family and I visited their grave last week - we were all moved by it,

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Please don't jest about this very serious subject. Nearly 19 years ago 2 young friends died of CO poisoning in a rented house. It hurt then and it still hurts now that 2 men at the beginning of their life were killed by the poor workmanship of an incompotent gas fitter and a cheapskate landlord (who went to prison}. My family and I visited their grave last week - we were all moved by it,

 

Hi Richard

 

I dont think the posters you refer to are realy jesting about this undoubtedly sad post. We all through life have to deal with tragedy and some do it different to others. The facts are " Shit Happens " the human race always has and always will deal with it with a comedy aspect as part of the way of dealing with it.

 

Tim

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Please don't jest about this very serious subject. Nearly 19 years ago 2 young friends died of CO poisoning in a rented house. It hurt then and it still hurts now that 2 men at the beginning of their life were killed by the poor workmanship of an incompotent gas fitter and a cheapskate landlord (who went to prison}. My family and I visited their grave last week - we were all moved by it,

I wasn't jesting.

I respond in similar vein to anything or anyone that suggests that there is a bearded man in the sky who should protect us.

 

(thank you, Tim)

Edited by ChrisPy
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