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Multifuel stove with back boiler


Ianey

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Hi all,

Sorry if this has been posted before, I have searched but alas, didn't find anything specific....

 

I've been in my widebeam (60 x 10) since mid Feb and I was somewhat shocked when I'd used 250ltrs of diesel in 4 weeks heating the boat with my Webasto (due to funds I couldn't afford a stove...) so I'm now looking at either...

A stove with a back boiler connected directly into the calorifier

OR

A solar heat collector on the roof ( I know this won't get as hot but the final temp could be boosted via the immersion heating element - I have solar and wind power to reduce this cost...)

 

In both cases I'd look to remove the engine heating as I don't cruise that much......

 

Any suggestions / tips - especially on Stoves with back boilers would be fantastic....

 

Thanks

 

Ianey

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Hi all,

Sorry if this has been posted before, I have searched but alas, didn't find anything specific....

 

I've been in my widebeam (60 x 10) since mid Feb and I was somewhat shocked when I'd used 250ltrs of diesel in 4 weeks heating the boat with my Webasto (due to funds I couldn't afford a stove...) so I'm now looking at either...

A stove with a back boiler connected directly into the calorifier

OR

A solar heat collector on the roof ( I know this won't get as hot but the final temp could be boosted via the immersion heating element - I have solar and wind power to reduce this cost...)

 

In both cases I'd look to remove the engine heating as I don't cruise that much......

 

Any suggestions / tips - especially on Stoves with back boilers would be fantastic....

 

Thanks

 

Ianey

 

Hi

 

The cheapest, quickest and easiest option for your present situation I would suggest would be to buy a squirrell SOLID fuel stove ( or similar ) as a main cabin heater. It will keep the entire boat warm without the need for plumbing in. Forced diesel type heating is simply not a viable option for liveabords. You can then retain the webasto which will be well capable of keeping you in hot water if only run for say 2 x 1 hour sessions per day according of course to your individual needs. This will greatly reduce your massive diesel useage and even with the purchase of solid fuel will hugely reduce your hot water/cabin heating bills. :cheers:

 

Tim

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Hello

I am in the same position, living aboard the same size boat since end of Feb and the cost of Webasto heating is absolutely shocking and not viable. Luckily I bought a Squirrel stove (but haven't installed it yet) while I still had the money. Ive had some quotes done this week to plumb in a back boiler to heat water and radiators. But i've decided to keep things simple and fit the stove initially, see how well it heats the boat before going any further, and use the Webasto just to heat water.

Getting the work done is expensive in itself and i'm hoping this simple solution will work and it will definitely save money

Good luck

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Hi all,

Sorry if this has been posted before, I have searched but alas, didn't find anything specific....

 

I've been in my widebeam (60 x 10) since mid Feb and I was somewhat shocked when I'd used 250ltrs of diesel in 4 weeks heating the boat with my Webasto (due to funds I couldn't afford a stove...) so I'm now looking at either...

A stove with a back boiler connected directly into the calorifier

OR

A solar heat collector on the roof ( I know this won't get as hot but the final temp could be boosted via the immersion heating element - I have solar and wind power to reduce this cost...)

 

In both cases I'd look to remove the engine heating as I don't cruise that much......

 

Any suggestions / tips - especially on Stoves with back boilers would be fantastic....

 

Thanks

 

Ianey

 

Laney,

 

We're on a 60' x 12 w/beam.

 

We have a standard 5Kw Morso Squirrel - -(without a back boiler)

 

It has kept us gloriously warm, both this, and the previous (rather cold) winter . . . .

 

The entirety of the worst winter (2010/11) only cost us £365 in solid smokeless fuel and wood (in total)

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It is quite viable to run a multi fuel stove without a back boiler and be very cosy even in the depth of winter.However this can depend on your interior boat layout and the type of insulation.If yer keep your stove running 24/7 and keep your interior doors open there shouldn't be a problem.I usually fit a 7kw stove for this size of boat,this has the capacity to be able to load the stove and leave on 'tickover' for many hours if the boat is to be left unattended.

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Morso squirrel seem popular but on my boat it will be a woodwarm fireview 4.5kw. You may like the woodwarm fireview 6kw.Both come with boiler options.

My link

See some burning.

My link

 

 

If on a tight budget you could buy a villager either puffin or chelsea etc.

My link

 

 

Clearview pioneer 400/solution.

My link

 

A good review of stoves by owners is.

My link

 

Woodwarm and clearview are also good makes as well as morso.

 

 

You really need to know what size boiler you need to heat all or most of the present rads. If you put the sizes up and if singles or doubles I could give you a rough idea. If you could also state which ones are in the same room as the new stove will be, this would help.

 

James. :cheers:

Edited by canals are us?
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Hi,

 

I've just noticed this thread and would like to add that the subject regarding a back boiler on a solid fuel stove has been covered before with some interesting comments.

 

We have a Morso Squirrel solid fuel stove with a back boiler on our 60' narrowboat and find it to be very economical and efficient. I asked the boatbuilder to install the stove and he was initially reluctant to plumb it in to the central heating system that combines the use of a Mikuni MX40 diesel heater. His reason was due to the fact that the combined energy output from the two heat sources exceeded the absorbtion rate of the calorifier and radiators.

 

I have modified the system from his original design and find it to be very efficient in warming the whole boat up during the winter (and Spring months). As the solid fuel stove is situated at the bow end of the boat, without the back boiler, we would have been cold at the bedroom section which is positioned next to the engine room at the stern.

 

We only use the Mikuni to warm the system first thing in the morning for an hour. This gives me enough time to griddle the ashes in the Morso and bring it back to life after ticking over all night. The combined central heating circuit with a coolant volume of 50 ltrs, is a sealed pumped system that uses an Eberspacher 5 ltr plastic header tank that is more than capable of allowing for expansion. A dual temperature/pressure relief valve is installed at the boiler outlet as a vital safety device to prevent over temp/pressure build up. This also serves as an automatic boiler bleed valve.

 

Even though this system is somewhat frowned upon by heating engineers, it works very well and is as safe as any domestic sealed central heating system.

 

Mike

 

P.S. Following the capture of many logs from the remnants of recent tree felling in Audlem, we have heated our boat free of charge for the last five weeks. I even save the sawdust from my chain saw. I bag it and use it to supplement the wooden log fuel during the day.

Edited by Doorman
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I can highly recommend the Squirrel Morso, with backboiler. Simple system, no pump noises, basically silent.

 

 

 

If you are planning a backboiler system, it easier if it isn't a retro-fitting plan. The pipework is different than standard CH systems and require pipework to rise outward bound and fall on the way back. If you have lots of fittings and cupboards along the run, it could become more challenging.

Edited by Higgs
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I can highly recommend the Squirrel Morso, with backboiler. Simple system, no pump noises, basically silent.

 

If you are planning a backboiler system, it easier if it isn't a retro-fitting plan. The pipework is different than standard CH systems and require pipework to rise outward bound and fall on the way back. If you have lots of fittings and cupboards along the run, it could become more challenging.

 

Hi Higgs,

 

if you see my previous post #9, I describe our combined central heating system that uses a Morso back boiler and Mikuni MX40 diesel heater. The boatbuilder originally declined to connect the back boiler to the heating circuit on the grounds that I mentioned in that post. It was only when I pressed him to complete the full installation, did he reluctantly agree. Therefore, in theory, he connected our back boiler restrospectively. He simply connected the 22mm copper pipes from the Morso, to the 22mm plastic reciculation pipes on the Mikuni system with minimal fuss and disruption. The system is, as I said, a sealed circuit that is pumped via a Jabsco variable flow rate pump. It is set at its lowest position and cannot be heard running in the cabin.

 

I can't imagine what a 28mm rising copper pipe would look like in our cabin, as in a thermosiphon system. Although this is the preferred method when utilising a multi-fuel heating system, it is not necessarily practical on a narrow boat with its low deck head height.

 

Mike

Edited by Doorman
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Hi Higgs,

 

I can't imagine what a 28mm rising copper pipe would look like in our cabin, as in a thermosiphon system. Although this is the preferred method when utilising a multi-fuel heating system, it is not necessarily practical on a narrow boat with its low deck head height.

 

Mike

 

Hi,

 

I've never really questioned the rising pipe layout, it seems to be what you do for a thermosiphon system. It does work. Already installed when I bought the boat. Had to redo some piping because the original wasn't correct and part had a restrictive 15mm section on the return leg. The rise is only about 8cm.

 

The people who had the boat before had a pump installed. A pump isn't necessary in the system when plumped properly.

 

I have an MX40 to install and was toying with the idea of integrated the two systems. But, the Mikuni is only intended as back-up and to give a boost to the shower room in very cold conditions.

 

The squirrel is getting on, but still good. I know that when it decides to give up, it's going to be in the winter. That's when the Mikuni is probably going to be appreciated.

Edited by Higgs
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The squirrel is getting on, but still good. I know that when it decides to give up, it's going to be in the winter. That's when the Mikuni is probably going to be appreciated.

 

:P

 

Doesn't that always seem to be the case with heating problems!

 

Mike

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You will need radiators aswell if you go down the back boiler route. Just a calorifier wont be able to deal with the generated heat by itself and your system will surely boil up. Once the calorifier is up to temp it wont remove much heat at all from the circuit and you NEED radiators to dump the heat to stop it from boiling.

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You will need radiators aswell if you go down the back boiler route. Just a calorifier wont be able to deal with the generated heat by itself and your system will surely boil up. Once the calorifier is up to temp it wont remove much heat at all from the circuit and you NEED radiators to dump the heat to stop it from boiling.

 

Yes. The whole circuit has the Squirrel Morso, backboiler, two radiators, and a round trip of about 80' of 28mm pipe. My backboiler system doesn't include a trip through calorifier. The benefit of the backboiler system is in it's simplicity. There's hardly anything to go wrong. Light the fire and that's it. Barring leaks, it's basic uncomplicated.

 

The calorifier has two coils; one for the engine and one for the Mikuni. I don't really need anything else, because the water system also has a Paloma instant hot water boiler.

 

The Mikuni will probably need more thought to ensure it has a decent amount of work to do, avoiding short cycling on and off. Not very good for these types of diesel central heating units.

Edited by Higgs
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  • 5 years later...

Hi all. I have been thinking of installing a boiler in my Morso Squirrel, of the sort that is mounted inside instead of a baffle plate. We already have a radiator circuit that was originally connected to a (now conked) Alde, so it should be fairly easy to achieve.

I'd like to ask someone who already has the setup whether or not radiators would still be warm in the morning, assuming you stoke the fire up pretty well last thing at night? The main issue with our winter living is the evil cold in the mornings in the back of the boat - the squirrel is right at the front. We've been thinking about getting a diesel heater as some are programmable - which would allow you to get it to come on half an hour before you get up. However, 1) they are expensive 2) burn lots of expensive diesel and 3) apparently are quite unreliable at starting up - ESPECIALLY IN THE MORNING when the batteries are at a low ebb.

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11 minutes ago, kestermuller said:

Hi all. I have been thinking of installing a boiler in my Morso Squirrel, of the sort that is mounted inside instead of a baffle plate. We already have a radiator circuit that was originally connected to a (now conked) Alde, so it should be fairly easy to achieve.

I'd like to ask someone who already has the setup whether or not radiators would still be warm in the morning, assuming you stoke the fire up pretty well last thing at night? The main issue with our winter living is the evil cold in the mornings in the back of the boat - the squirrel is right at the front. We've been thinking about getting a diesel heater as some are programmable - which would allow you to get it to come on half an hour before you get up. However, 1) they are expensive 2) burn lots of expensive diesel and 3) apparently are quite unreliable at starting up - ESPECIALLY IN THE MORNING when the batteries are at a low ebb.

We have a squirrel with back boiler at the front of our 70ft boat, supplying originally two rads(i added a third in the bedroom). The one in the bedroom doesn't really make much difference. I think it will depend how long your pipe run is, and whether you have a pumped system or gravity fed,and to a certain extent what temperature you are trying to achieve. 

The solution for us in the end was to add a second squirrel in the bedroom. 

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Thanks Rusty69. Due to the nature of the installed pipework, I think it's going to have to be a pumped system, probably with a thermostatic switch to turn the pump on and off. It's a 60ft boat, and there are 2 radiators in the front half, 2 in the back half. Was thinking maybe of just cutting out the front radiators that are in rooms already adequately heated to optimise the performance of the other two. Really don't have anywhere for a second stove. :(

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9 minutes ago, kestermuller said:

Thanks Rusty69. Due to the nature of the installed pipework, I think it's going to have to be a pumped system, probably with a thermostatic switch to turn the pump on and off. It's a 60ft boat, and there are 2 radiators in the front half, 2 in the back half. Was thinking maybe of just cutting out the front radiators that are in rooms already adequately heated to optimise the performance of the other two. Really don't have anywhere for a second stove. :(

Ours is a gravity system. I think the addition of a pump and moving rads could well work .Hopefully someone will come along who has such a system and will be able to advise you better

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