Diesel Price

[cotswoldsman]

Why do you have to move to charge the batteries?

 

because it is reckoned on some engines it is best to have the prop going round when charging. I declare 10% on the basis that when I cruise I only cruise for the time it would normally take me to charge my batteries ie about 3 hours.

[Nickhlx]

because it is reckoned on some engines it is best to have the prop going round when charging. I declare 10% on the basis that when I cruise I only cruise for the time it would normally take me to charge my batteries ie about 3 hours.

 

... but Gibbo would have said it takes perhaps 8 hours to fully charge the battery

 

Nick

[cotswoldsman]

... but Gibbo would have said it takes perhaps 8 hours to fully charge the battery

 

Nick

 

Who is Gibbo? I also have solar panels................

[nicknorman]

Overall, he had calculated that just 11% of his fuel useage was actually for propulsion. The rest was battery charging, heat generation for water and wasted heat. That is what he declared and was not challenged.

 

That is a very interesting point that I had not considered. If you take the fuel used when chugging along with full batteries, calorifier full of hot water etc (yes I know, not applicable to CCers) then a good chunk (more than half) of the fuel being burnt goes to waste heat. Due to the (in)efficiency of the engine less than half will be going towards actually propelling the boat along. If one can discount the waste heat as not being used for propulsion, its time I stopped declaring 60/40 in summer.

 

ETA 85p at Fazeley Mill Marina last time I filled up which was a month ago.

Edited March 22, 2012 by nicknorman

[sheriff]

i have to constanly keep moving my boat at zero percent to charge all my batteries/heat water,my engine hand book states I should run my engine in gear whilst tied to the towpath,to charge batts,bw states do not do this whlist the boat is tied to the towpath.

 

so I declare zero percent,when charging batts/takes a long time.and move my boat at the same time,propulsion is a by product....

 

the frist year i was only buying white diesel like a complete fool(somebody told me red is full of horrible stuff)new at the game then etc...so the tax man/women has had loads out of me..at leats a 1000 liters worth of white diesel tax.

 

they keep putting fuel prices up,i shall asked blizzard to invent a paddle mechanism for the back of the boat,so i can sit on the deck and peddlle paddle away into the sunset,for free.

[Nickhlx]

Who is Gibbo? I also have solar panels................

 

He is the person who designed the Smartgauge and associated equipment who used to help out with all the electrical problems on here

 

( as I feel sure you remember)

 

Nick

[cotswoldsman]

He is the person who designed the Smartgauge and associated equipment who used to help out with all the electrical problems on here

 

( as I feel sure you remember)

 

Nick

 

yes I was just joking!!!

[Nickhlx]

yes I was just joking!!!

 

I had assumed (but its wrong to assume !!)

 

Nick

[dor]

Whitchurch marina sell F.A.M.E free diesel others don't hence price.

 

Sorry but that's nonsense. The wholesale price of FAME-free is not much different and Nantwich CC's diesel is also FAME-free (and they have the supplier's declaration to back it up).

[ditchcrawler]

Whitchurch marina sell F.A.M.E free diesel others don't hence price.

So do Lime farm marina on the N Oxford and they are the cheapest in the area, so what has price got to do with it.

[nbfiresprite]

£1.46 (60/40) on the pump at Ely Boatyard last week.

£1.31 (60/40) on the pump at Foxes to night.

 

Firesprite

 

In the Office

[Jparry]

Denham yacht station 91p

[matty40s]

eye watering..........

 

Sileby allow 100%, and most of mine has been hot water over the winter for my last fill up (October).I have only cruised to get the radiators working and top up my batteries. There just happened to be a banter at the end of each cruise.

 

FAME was a crap TV series about kids wearing legwarmers in the 80's.

[jelunga]

So do Lime farm marina on the N Oxford and they are the cheapest in the area, so what has price got to do with it.

Yes. We filled up ther on the way up to Sawley last year and will do so in the next few days. Nice people. Perkins engine enthuseast as well.

[gazza]

£1.19 (60/40) at Burton Waters. Needless to say we dont buy it from there.

 

£0.78 at Bramley

 

your price is very good, i have just ordered 1000 litres from barton fuels in northants at 78.2p per litre. (for mobile power and steam generation at work, not for the boat!)

 

we usually have one delivery a week, the price has risen 2ppl in the past 4 working days.

[Bimbly1]

92p at Limekiln, Stourport-on-Severn.

[micky44]

Bristol city docks, 80p a liter if you have min 200 litres, less than 200 litres, 85p

[J R]

Thanks for the swift and obviously stupid reply from someone whos knowledge of how the British legal system works is even more obviously less than that of an omeba. It is a perfectly honest question yes of course the boat is being propelled but as we are allowed to declare our useage split until anything is challenged such as the dreamed up 60/40 split in a court the result of what the outcome would be is certainly open for debate. Until such time as you have enough decorum to think about your answer go and polish your mushroom vents thats more your level.

 

Lets be clear about a couple of points. HMRC do not have the resources to check/inspect/bust every boater who may or may not over/under declared to the diesel supplier, even though they have the power to inspect or check any records that you may have on your diesel purchases.

 

The myth of the 'imposed' 60/40 split that some dealers imposed was that they could not be bothered to work out the right splits and the additional money thet HMRC required. (Yes, HMRC do check dealers records regularly). The 60/40 myth came about from the Revenue & Customs Brief 49/08 where it states under the section 'Purchasers responsibilities' that the example they used was an 'estimate' only and that it would 'make it easier for suppliers (RCDOs) to work out additional duty & VAT'. Thoes with proven permanent moorings can get the 100%, but the document does say 'Continuous cruisers may not declare 0% under these arrangements. Even if they reside permanently on their craft, they must declare their actual intended usuage for propulsion'.

 

One solution to the matter in hand is to keep a record of the amount of fuel purchased. When on the move make a note of the mileage, at say, 2 miles per hour on average. Find out what the average fuel consumption for your engine is at the average speed and that will give you the 'propulsion' amount you have used. Everything else, in theory, is 100% allowed. This is what we do, just in case.................

[Naughty Cal]

your price is very good, i have just ordered 1000 litres from barton fuels in northants at 78.2p per litre. (for mobile power and steam generation at work, not for the boat!)

 

we usually have one delivery a week, the price has risen 2ppl in the past 4 working days.

 

The last lot we bought was last Friday at 78ppl so it may well have gone up a touch since then. We will no doubt find out tonight as we are going to get some more to fill the tank to the top.

[Athy]

 

FAME was a crap TV series about kids wearing legwarmers in the 80's.

...and a much less crappy recording studio in Florence, Alabama in the 1960s and 1970s, where Wilson Pickett, Aretha Franklin and Etta James inter alia made records.

[Nightwatch]

Thought I would bump this thread by adding a question.

 

On my travels by car locally there is a hire company selling red diesel.

 

Wife popped in this morning to see what the price is. £1.05 a litre! This sounds a bit expensive as the location is inland and no where near a waterway so must be for farm/site vehicles.

 

Am I right or wrong with my assumption that it is expensive? I had thought I had found a bit of a bargain.

 

Martyn

[Nickhlx]

Thought I would bump this thread by adding a question.

 

On my travels by car locally there is a hire company selling red diesel.

 

Wife popped in this morning to see what the price is. £1.05 a litre! This sounds a bit expensive as the location is inland and no where near a waterway so must be for farm/site vehicles.

 

Am I right or wrong with my assumption that it is expensive? I had thought I had found a bit of a bargain.

 

Martyn

 

I would say pretty expensive -

 

If you look at quotes from e.g. Boilerjuice, Red is around 75p / litre including VAT and delivery for 500 litres in the south of England at the moment and Kerosene about 12p/litre cheaper depending on quantity and location of delivery.... http://www.boilerjui...liers-chart.php

Red diesel does seem to have come around 4p/litre in the last couple of months from them...

 

 

I use Kerosene for boat heating as it's cleaner and much cheaper ( and we use it at home !)

 

Nick

Edited May 17, 2012 by Nickhlx

[Morat]

I think the days of Diesel only narrowboats are coming to an end!

Now, if only we could design a safe LPG Only boat...

[Roger Gunkel]

Let's not forget that the declaration that you make on the heating/propulsion split is purely voluntary and the fuel supplier is collecting the duty that you declare on behalf of HMRC. The supplier has no legal right to demand that you pay any particular percentage and is bound to accept what you say. If a fuel supplier is advertising fuel at a 60/40 split only, then he would appear to be doing that in contradiction to any legal guidelines as far as I can see. You should be within your rights to refuse to pay it, in the same way that you would refuse to pay someone charging you 40% vat on shop bought goods. Happy to be proved wrong though if anyone has evidence to the contrary.

 

If HMRC decide for some remote reason that you are taking the piss, then they will have to show that they have reasonable grounds to suspect this, and would have great difficulty disputing any figures that you supply, due to any number of reasons mentioned in previous posts. If you are stuck in a marina all winter and move nowhere, then declare 0% if you believe that is correct, don't feel guilty as the supplier is probably as pissed off at having to collect it as you are paying it. To the best of my knowledge no case has ever come to court and I can't see on what grounds it would unless there was a clear case of profiteering by selling on or similar circumstances.

 

Roger

[Grace and Favour]

Thought I would bump this thread by adding a question.

 

On my travels by car locally there is a hire company selling red diesel.

 

Wife popped in this morning to see what the price is. £1.05 a litre! This sounds a bit expensive as the location is inland and no where near a waterway so must be for farm/site vehicles.

 

Am I right or wrong with my assumption that it is expensive? I had thought I had found a bit of a bargain.

 

Martyn

 

What does the 'hire company' hire out? . . . is it agricultural vehicles?