girl frineds sr2

[sinkingbarge]

Hi folks any help here would be greatly approeciated.

 

Girklfriends sr2 was running briliantly for months and being run once a week for a couple of hours to move boat on a cruising lisc up the london canals or to just charge battery.

 

One time whilst she was away the bilge wasnt emptied and the engine was run for about 2 hours and we noticed it was smoking a bit at idle but no real problems

 

Then when we took her for a run after about half an hour power got less and we had to use higher throttle opening to maintain revs till we could moor up and rest. Bilge was emptied and engine left to cool. After a while of rest about half a day we noticed this behavour reoccuring when we fired her up, although it seemed like it improved after leaving it idling for half an hour. then on the journey home this behavouir of needing high throttle opening to give revs reoccured and she would stall at low revs.

 

now i have noticed that firing up from cold still gives this problem, however every now and again the engine suddenly springs to life and sounds normal for about ten of fifteen seconds, then it starts to do what i would describe as HUNTING ie. it goes up and down in revs as if its being starved of fuel.

 

so far i have not checked fuel filters or fuel lines and would welcome any advice on how to do that.

 

any books out there or online manuals for an sr2 that i can buy or download ?

 

I don't think this is the air-cooled over heating because it does this hunting thing when you fire it up from cold. I did however shit myself that running the engine with a high bilge water level may have caused a huge amount of strain on the engine if water was hitting fly wheel etc. Immediately after i checked gfs oil level and it was quite high. We pumped some out to get it down to a normal level and i worried that water may have got in sump and raised it artificially high, but oil isnt grey or emulsified and i suspect gf simply overfilled it with oil at some stage or her mechanic did.

 

Im taking tommorow morn to look at it so any advice greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Tony Brooks]

Hi folks any help here would be greatly approeciated.

 

Girklfriends sr2 was running briliantly for months and being run once a week for a couple of hours to move boat on a cruising lisc up the london canals or to just charge battery.

 

One time whilst she was away the bilge wasnt emptied and the engine was run for about 2 hours and we noticed it was smoking a bit at idle but no real problems

 

Then when we took her for a run after about half an hour power got less and we had to use higher throttle opening to maintain revs till we could moor up and rest. Bilge was emptied and engine left to cool. After a while of rest about half a day we noticed this behavour reoccuring when we fired her up, although it seemed like it improved after leaving it idling for half an hour. then on the journey home this behavouir of needing high throttle opening to give revs reoccured and she would stall at low revs.

 

now i have noticed that firing up from cold still gives this problem, however every now and again the engine suddenly springs to life and sounds normal for about ten of fifteen seconds, then it starts to do what i would describe as HUNTING ie. it goes up and down in revs as if its being starved of fuel.

 

so far i have not checked fuel filters or fuel lines and would welcome any advice on how to do that.

 

any books out there or online manuals for an sr2 that i can buy or download ?

 

I don't think this is the air-cooled over heating because it does this hunting thing when you fire it up from cold. I did however shit myself that running the engine with a high bilge water level may have caused a huge amount of strain on the engine if water was hitting fly wheel etc. Immediately after i checked gfs oil level and it was quite high. We pumped some out to get it down to a normal level and i worried that water may have got in sump and raised it artificially high, but oil isnt grey or emulsified and i suspect gf simply overfilled it with oil at some stage or her mechanic did.

 

Im taking tommorow morn to look at it so any advice greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

 

I am sure that others who know Listers better will be along soon. As I read this I thought fuel problem, blocked filter, bug but the last bit about high oil level suggests this may be the usual internal fuel leak diluting the oil, reducing its lubricity and allowing partial seizure.

 

The smoke ties in with that but this is usually accompanied by a very strong diesel smell that you can often smell away from the boat. This is not mentioned here.

 

You should rub some new oil between finger and thumb and then repeat with the oil from the engine. Smell them also. If the old oil feels thin and smells of white spirit (low sulphur diesel no longer smells like diesel of old) then it is probably dilution. If so remove the rocker covers and check the pipes on the injector for leaks. You may also have to take the side cover off to look at the rest of the fuel lines.

 

The difficulty starting makes me veer towards a fuel problem. Blocked filter or strainer in the top of the lift pump for starters.

[sinkingbarge]

by the way its not an sr2 its an sr 3 sorry.

 

other thing to note that i forgot to mention is the following.

 

when the engine hunts and stalls which it does do if the throttle is not held really high. if you give it ten seconds it always fires up again an runs fine for about ten seconds even though it stalled. ie. it seems to die for some reason whcih i suspect is fuel shortage and then after being stopped for only about ten seconds it fires up after it gets cranked over a couple of times.

 

hope this helps

 

thanks again dave

 

thanks tony for that reply.. can you advise where the lift pump is

 

what causeds the leak from diesel to the oil level > does it occur while standin gor only when running . ill check to see if levels risen at all since i leveled it to the correct dipsick mark. thanks again dave

[Nickhlx]

It may not be possible here, but some of these symptoms fit a blocked fuel tank vent, preventing air from entering the tank to replace fuel drawn off and the partial vacuum preventing normal fuel flow - especially if the tank has recently been filled or is near full...

 

Nick

 

 

[LesR]

There is a link to on line manuals in the SR2 smoking thread.

 

These symptoms do sound very much like fuel in the oil. Change the oil ASAP and re test. If it is a slight leak, it can take many hours to affect the throttle response. It will restart, normally after the problem cuts out the engine. The two normal places to look for a leak are the internal fuel lines and the lift pump.

[Chris Pink]

by the way its not an sr2 its an sr 3 sorry.

 

other thing to note that i forgot to mention is the following.

 

when the engine hunts and stalls which it does do if the throttle is not held really high. if you give it ten seconds it always fires up again an runs fine for about ten seconds even though it stalled. ie. it seems to die for some reason whcih i suspect is fuel shortage and then after being stopped for only about ten seconds it fires up after it gets cranked over a couple of times.

 

hope this helps

 

thanks again dave

 

thanks tony for that reply.. can you advise where the lift pump is

 

what causeds the leak from diesel to the oil level > does it occur while standin gor only when running . ill check to see if levels risen at all since i leveled it to the correct dipsick mark. thanks again dave

 

 

www.bluemoment.com/manuals/lister_man.pdf

 

 

"what causeds the leak from diesel to the oil level > does it occur while standin gor only when running . ill check to see if levels risen at all since i leveled it to the correct dipsick mark. thanks again dave"

 

This is vital to ascertain, it's one of the few things that will kill a Lister.

 

Manual Page 3 : Fuel pump housing door - look at the pipes running up to the injectors.

Leak off pipes can ummmm leak

The fuel pump diaphragm can split causing fuel to leak through the crankcase door - to find the lift pump follow the pipes from the tank, it's the first part of the engine they meet (usually after an external fuel filter and before the engine mounted fuel filter)

 

As an aside: does any have an online link to an SR manual with a parts list, this one, the commonly available one, only goes up to page 55

[by'eck]

Not quite sure why you are getting so much water in the bilges but whilst that needs sorting its probably a secondary issue.

 

The engine symptoms you describe suggest fuel starvation. Doubt its a partial seizure problem due to oil dilution as you get the problem with oil hot or cold. Back pressure in the fuel lines caused by a partial blockage or inadequate tank venting would be a likely bet. Stopping the engine & starting again would allow the fuel flow to temporarily catch up which explains some of the symptoms.

 

You need to check filters. Check fuel lines by blowing back into tank & listening for bubbles. Check for leaks & check tank breathers.

 

Its not unknown for debris to collect inside the lift pump as well. This reduces the pumps performance but doesn't stop it working completely so its often missed in trouble shooting. This would also explain why it stalls at idle speed as the pumps limited capacity won't allow enough fuel for engine to pick up.

 

All speculation but worth checking.

[sinkingbarge]

Thanks very much for all the replies. I'll be carrying out all the chekcs tomorrow and may change the oil as a matter of course anyway.

 

Can anyone explain why this problem appeared to suddenly come on (leaving us stranded on the wrong side of the regents canal)?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Geoff Taylor]

Hi,It looks like you definately have a fuelling problem and I would guess that the symptoms point to a split in the lift pump diaphragm,this would double up as to why the fuel is getting into the engine oil and when you rev the engine the pump runs faster making it deliver more fuel to the injectors therefore allowing the engine to run, Check the pump first and for good measure change the filters etc.

Hope this helps.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Geoff Taylor

[luctor et emergo]

Check the gause in the liftpump, it is your first defense in dirt and crap collection. Clean the lift pump, and the hunting and rough running is likely fixed. As to the possible diesel leak into the sump, do the checks, because as Chris mentions, that is one of the very few things that can kill the SR. Either by wrecking bearings etc, or by running away and seizing.

 

Luctor, happy SR3 owner.

[sinkingbarge]

Thanks for advice again.

 

I just undiid fuel inlet and outlet to fuel lift pump. to my surprise diesel hasn't siphoned from the tank pipe when I disconnected it from the lift pump inlet, suggesting a lack of diesel. This seems strange as there's 4 inches of diesel in bottom of tank- perhaps this is simply a case of running out of diesel. (any advice here appreciated)

 

I've spilt open the lift pump and the diaphragm looks fine but I'm going to replace it as a matter of course as I've got it on the bench in pieces and have to wait for diesel fill up anyway. Can anyone advise where I can order or collect one from it's rubber, black and red with 5 holes for screws and a little lug. I presume It's a fairly standard part but any tips on a quick order or buy would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks for all tips so far,

 

Dave

[Daftmare]

Thanks for advice again.

 

I just undiid fuel inlet and outlet to fuel lift pump. to my surprise diesel hasn't siphoned from the tank pipe when I disconnected it from the lift pump inlet, suggesting a lack of diesel. This seems strange as there's 4 inches of diesel in bottom of tank- perhaps this is simply a case of running out of diesel. (any advice here appreciated)

 

 

Dave, there may be 4 inches of diesel in the bottom of the tank - but that will not help you if the outlet is 5 inches from the bottom of the tank. This was our classic mistake first time out with our boat, and we ended up being towed home.

 

However, I leave it to the experts to pinpoint the main problem here.

 

Jo.

[sinkingbarge]

Just took apart filter and seem to have what looks like lots of dog hair on the filter but suspect this is just from inside the filter, not too worried about this. A little bit of black gritty grunge at bottom of red aluminium filter housing maybe in volume a tenth of a teaspoon. Lister Peter genuine part number 252427 which again i am considering replacing as a matter of course. Can anyone advise where this comes from?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

Thanks Jo, that's what I suspected. Fuel ordered but not arriving until next Friday so let's see. Fingers crossed.

 

Dave

[Keeping Up]

It could be that the pickup pipe inside the tank has developed a pinhole several inches from the end, so that it starts sucking air when the tank still has a few inches of fuel in it.

[saltysplash]

Just took apart filter and seem to have what looks like lots of dog hair on the filter but suspect this is just from inside the filter, not too worried about this. A little bit of black gritty grunge at bottom of red aluminium filter housing maybe in volume a tenth of a teaspoon. Lister Peter genuine part number 252427 which again i am considering replacing as a matter of course. Can anyone advise where this comes from?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

Thanks Jo, that's what I suspected. Fuel ordered but not arriving until next Friday so let's see. Fingers crossed.

 

Dave

 

This company http://www.marineengine.co.uk/ specialise in listers, Forum member Chris-B is the man to ask

[bizzard]

Just took apart filter and seem to have what looks like lots of dog hair on the filter but suspect this is just from inside the filter, not too worried about this. A little bit of black gritty grunge at bottom of red aluminium filter housing maybe in volume a tenth of a teaspoon. Lister Peter genuine part number 252427 which again i am considering replacing as a matter of course. Can anyone advise where this comes from?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

Thanks Jo, that's what I suspected. Fuel ordered but not arriving until next Friday so let's see. Fingers crossed.

 

Dave

Is this red bowl filter the small fuel micro filter fixed on the engine near the alternator,if so it should be a paper element Crosland 489 or Fram,C11941PL.

[Nickhlx]

It could be that the pickup pipe inside the tank has developed a pinhole several inches from the end, so that it starts sucking air when the tank still has a few inches of fuel in it.

 

Exactly this problem caused a friend of mine to lose his fish farm one day when they had a power cut... the TWO standby generators fired up, one when the power went, for a few hours and when that died the other fired up and took over, but only for a few minutes as it used up its pipefull of fuel, despite each being tested weekly and in full working order.

 

The dip pipe for taking fuel out of the common tank was too short / broken or something, and could only use part of the fuel in the tank... in the time they had found the problem the fish in the tanks had died through lack of aeration.... very sad...

 

Nick

Edited February 23, 2012 by Nickhlx