Canal side trouble

[Mrhigherbeing]

Along the canal in central London you occasionally get a few lads messing around that dont cause so much to worry about.

 

But lately a group of kids have been kicking the boats, spitting on them and generally being right idiots and threatening us.

 

To be frank it rattles me alot, scares my girlfriend and will one day likely cause damage.

Now do I get out and rough them up, of course not, apart from anything else it will more than likely make me the targeted boat in future if I am not in jail!

Should I ignore it, hard!

 

 

What can I do without making myself a target?

 

Anyone have any ideas or experiences?

 

IAN

[Alastair]

Photograph them. If you are on a canal side, is it an official BW mooring? If so, have a chat with the local lengthman or lockeeper. Chances are, lads behaving like this are also vandalising locks, and BW would like their piccies.

[DHutch]

yeah, these people hate camaras, even pretending to take photos is often a very good deterant (we have an old non-funtional camara which lives on board all the time)

 

and, if your planning to moor there for a while a cheap CCTV camara (in a vandal proof box) maybe well be worth the trouble of fitting

 

 

daniel

[timboharticus]

What do the other boat owners think?

 

It would be would be worth arranging a meeting with others in the pub to discuss, if only to get a bit of support.

 

Taking photos may be a good idea, but if they see you is likely to annoy them. You do not want them to know where your boat is.

 

I suggest you formally notify the police, make sure they fill a form in.

 

These things normally blow over as they get bored and go on to go/do something else.

 

It's a pity that law abiding people feel intimidated by this sort of thing and know that the police etc. are bloody useless at dealing with it unless you do something to them.

[ChrisK]

What do the other boat owners think?

 

It would be would be worth arranging a meeting with others in the pub to discuss, if only to get a bit of support.

 

Taking  photos may be a good idea, but if they see you is likely to annoy them. You do not want them to know where your boat is.

 

I suggest you formally notify the police, make sure they fill a form in.

 

These things normally blow over as they get bored and go on to go/do something else.

 

It's a pity that law abiding people feel intimidated by this sort of thing and know that the police etc. are bloody useless at dealing with it unless you do something to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[ChrisK]

Isn't this what ASBOs are for ? If a few boat friendly magistrates were to ban these people from trespassing on BW property, then they really would be frightened of cameras etc.

[nbtafelberg]

I had this happen in Staines a few weeks back.

 

A group of teenagers were hanging around the mooring smoking etc.

 

I normally go out and clean my brass and try and strike up a conversation. They know us now and I am sure they won't do any harm to the boat, in fact they seem genuinly interested.

[Guest]

Perhaps we have been lucky, but so far we have found that if you try to involve these dead heads who hang around locks etc. causing problems, that they respond reasonably well. That said there will always be the ones that you can't reason with (especially if they are indulging in illegal substances). A cheap camcorder may be worth considering-but be careful; if you start videoing/photographing minors, you may well end up on a completely different charge. If you don't believe me, ask anyone who works in a school.

[Mrhigherbeing]

Cheers all.

 

I think its past the trying to make friends, it was past when they tried to take a poo on my roof!

I couldnt help but laugh though!

 

As for taking pictures, its an option I guess but I would be lucky to still have a camera at the end of it!

 

Problem is its not a BW site, well it is but there is no warden or anything like that.

 

I will see what occurs over the next few weeks and let you know. Will probably get police involved at first sign of any damage.

 

As for them taking illegal chemicals, that doesnt bother me at all its the legal ones that scare me namely booze!

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Peace

IAN

[Jon]

Do not, whatever you do not resort to violence to drive them away. You would be the one who would be prosecuted, and you could very well end up getting hurt yourself.

 

If they are actually damaging your boat when you are there, dial 999 and get the police. Otherwise report any incidents, no matter how minor, so that a higher presence can be shown by the police in your area.

 

Jon

[maffi mushkila]

What can I do without making myself a target?

Anyone have any ideas or experiences?

 

One of the advantages of living in a Godforsaken country like Saudi Ababia is the right to protect what is yours.

 

If any one is on your property without your permision and obviously there with the intention of doing no good the solution is simple. You shoot them!

 

When you shoot them you shoot them dead then they can not argue that they were invited etc.

 

Now I would not advocate that anyone here should take that course of action (it's against the law) but life would be so much simpler.

[ChrisPy]

One of the advantages of living in a Godforsaken country like Saudi Ababia is the right to protect what is yours.

 

If any one is on your property without your permision and obviously there with the intention of doing no good the solution is simple. You shoot them!

 

When you shoot them you shoot them dead then they can not argue that they were invited etc.

 

Now I would not advocate that anyone here should take that course of action (it's against the law) but life would be so much simpler.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thank you for those kind thoughts....

 

Actually, I have to agree. I have lived in the Gulf, India, Burma, Singapore, Malta, Turkey, Albania and Nigeria, for more than 20 years altogether. Only in Nigeria was there any threat against personal belongings or safety, as long as you don't step out of line yourself. Sad that 'Ukay' is not a lot better than that totally lawless country.

[John Orentas]

Maffi

 

Time to come home and prune your roses.

 

John Squeers

[Martin]

According to the latest issue of the BW magazine, every lengthsman should have a supply of forms for you to fill out regarding any "incident" on the waterways - from accidents to vandalism.

It would be worth filling out one of these too - at least there will be something in writing lodged with BW in case things get worse and they try to plead ignorance!

[Sam]

Well, when I am up the back driving I always normaly have my digital camera with me so I can take pictures so I use that because you can delete the pictures of them but you still get the ^~FLASH~^ -

 

I also normally use my mobile as I have it with me wherever I am normally.

 

But also on the narrowboat we have a couple of motorola 2 way radios - even though they don't look like the radios that us lifeguards or the emergancy services use they get scare sugarless (non rude version )

 

Your views?

Edited December 15, 2004 by Sam

[tommyhol]

According to the latest issue of the BW magazine, every lengthsman should have a supply of forms for you to fill out regarding any "incident" on the waterways - from accidents to vandalism.

It would be worth filling out one of these too - at least there will be something in writing lodged with BW in case things get worse and they try to plead ignorance!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

How about one of these forms on line that we can e-mail direct to BW?

 

tommyhol

[dor]

hmmm when did you last see a Lengthsman?

[Big COL]

Dor

 

You could find one at head office collecting his redundancy package. When all the hands on knowledge has been disposed of and all that's left is managers managing under managers what then?

This seems to be a common trend in industry today, since the privatisation of the utilty services most of the installations and maintenance is done by contractors, in the event of an emergency it appears they have very little idea where the services actually run, as the engineers that did were all made redundant A friend of mine who still works for one of the utility services was complaing bitterly about this situation. It appears that BW is going the same route but then we are not privy to all the facts

[Guest]

Louts and adolescent thugs and "you mustn't hit them 'cos you will get into trouble".

I've worked with the Police, I've spent my lunch time in the canteen with them, I've listened to them talk to each other, I know what they think and what they have to do, and also what they wish they were allowed to do!

These thugs are the types who kick old ladies. The police do not like them!

Usually what happens is someone gives the thugs a good hiding but someone else, being helpfull, calls the police. Thats the mistake.

If they are on site when it happens, they uphold the law. Thats what they are there for (and thak god they are). But if they are not there and they only attend after the event - it's all down to witnesses, and the police love it if all the witnesses are on your side. They dont like the thugs any more than we do.

If half-a-doz boat owners gave them a good hiding and the only witnesses were the boat owners and the thugs, the thugs would be prosecuted and the boaties would get a private warning. Thats how it works.

Make sure you can win - self preservation always first!

Make sure the police are not there until afterwards.

Make sure you know who the witnesses are.

 

Peter

[Jon]

That may or may not be true Wyeman, but its always best to play safe. In the current climate, any complaint of violence (in Warwickshire atleast) must be followed up, and when its made by a minor, it has to be taken very seriously.

 

This might clarify my point a little:

 

Source: http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/burglaryminisite09.htm

 

Under the law people are perfectly entitled to use reasonable force to protect themselves, their property or their family. In applying the "reasonable force" test, the jury (or the magistrates) look at the circumstances as they were believed to be by the person using the force and considers whether the force used in those circumstances was reasonable.

 

The law recognises that a person under attack cannot be expected to make a fine and accurate judgment as to the level of force that is reasonable in the circumstances, and the courts have held that if a person does only what he honestly and instinctively thought necessary, then that would be potent evidence that only reasonable defensive action had been taken.

 

What the law does not permit, however, is an act of retaliation. Punishment of criminals is rightly a matter for the courts: it is not for victims, vigilantes or anyone else to take the law into their own hands by seeking to punish an offender for a crime committed against them, their friends or family. It is for the police to enforce the law, the Crown Prosecution Service to decide whether the case should proceed to court, and the courts to decide guilt and punish offenders.

 

Existing law allows courts the flexibility to judge cases on the specific circumstances and decide whether the actions taken were necessary and proportionate, and so amount to self-defence, or whether they crossed that boundary. Ultimately, what is necessary and proportionate in a particular case is left to a jury to decide in the light of the circumstances.

 

The bit in bold is where it gets into a bit of a grey area, and where you could find yourself in trouble if you were to be found 'retaliating' rather than defending.

 

Jon

Edited December 18, 2004 by Jon

[Guest]

Jon

I understand the point of law but I wonder what DOR would do if he caught a bunch of hooligans chucking his bike in the cut!

 

Peter

[Paul Evans]

You are entitled to use reasonable force to protect yourself, other people or your property. As Jon says, what is reasonable force depends on the precise circumstances and, ultimately, is a question for a jury to decide based on the evdence available to it.

 

You are entitled to use reasonable force to prevent your bike from being thrown into the cut. Nobody can say in advance what reasonable force woud be. It would depend on the number, size and fitness of the people involved (on both sides) and, possibly, the consequences of the bike being in the cut.

 

If your bike has already been thrown into the cut you may be entitled to use reasonable force to apprehend the perpetrators but what you may NOT do, is take the law into your own hands and 'punish' them.

 

There is no way that anybody can give you 'clearance' for crime busting activities. Restrain your natural anger and call the police. Let thm handle this sortof situation.

[wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl)]

CAUTION, the following May offend people, if you might be one, do not read it! (Don't say you haven't been warned).

................................................................................

.......................................

 

Well, as you all know im a peace loving calm person who hates violence in any form......

 

But, from past experience at the hands of these people, my opinions are as follows, and Im sorry if it offends you, but someone has to stand up and say this.

 

I feel we are turning into a country of spineless people who, no matter how bad things get, stand back and turn a blind eye, choosing to sit arround letting all this unfold, doing nothing... (present compay accepted).... and the "do gooders", who seem to let anyone, do anything, and are too scared to do anything "incase THEY get into trouble" etc;

 

But, why not give them a taste of something they won't forget in a hurry?........(its the only medicine they understand)(making sure you have NO witneses, is a must) if you know who they are and they keep causing hasstle give em a kicking I say!. (friends optional)

 

That ought to discourage them from setting foot near a towpath again.

 

(hint-dont do it too near any boats/houses.....it was a totally unprovoked attack ...wasn't it?)...(and scarpa)

 

Sorry if that offends anyone, but im done with softly softly, to be honest. All I see is society continuously taking further nose dive's into a "free for all" state, where whatever powers that be, SEEM to be allowing these people to "Rule the roost", old lady's are scared to go out at night time and these yobs roam the streets and towpaths/parks/bus stations etc; like a pack of maurauding hienas on the look out for pray........ causuing people to feel intimidated and threatened by their drunken behavour, and not only do they seem to be letting them rule the roost, but what detterrent is there to stop the when the DO catch them?. They know nothing much will happen if they are caught!

 

And before you all kick off at me......my better half is a Police Officer and also my Brother !.......(and most of them agree with my views on this subject), if they were being honest.

 

At the very least people, if you don't want to tackle these people, for gods sake ring the coppers up and insist they attend.......because until YOU start bleeting about things, nothing will ge done by magic........im afraid.

 

(right, Ill sit back and wait the onslaught from you.......(bring it on)

[stuart]

wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl) couldn't agree more!

[wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl)]

Well thank you Sir..........you can be in my gang