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How much bio washing stuff to use in a portapotti


debbifiggy

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What you are trying to achieve by giving up formaldehyde, is the natural decomposition of the ordure. Biomagic encourages this by supplying more oxygen. I am not sure what the effect of the bio washing oowder is, but if the idea is to encourage bacteria then the presence of blue is not a good thing. You need to get rid of it by rising out the tank very well.

 

Nick

 

There's a couple of misconceptions here.

 

As was mentioned on a previous thread, the idea that elsan blue etc "pickles" the contents of your loo is nonsense. The misconception comes about because formaldehyde is associated with preserving/embalming things. But the stuff they use for that is nothing like the stuff that we use in porta pottis. The composition of toilet blue is such that the formaldehyde is employed to kill bacteria.

 

Killing bacteria will not stop organic material decomposing but it will do something for the smell!

 

The other misconception is that bio washing powders somehow employ bacteria to break down dirt/stains.

 

Organic matter decomposes by chemical reactions taking place. Bacteria may come along using the organic matter as a food source and may or may not be a helpful addition to the process. Bio washing powder uses enzymes, complicated molecules that act as catalysts ie they speed up the natural process of decomposition. They do not care about the prescence of bacteria, there's a debate about whether they have any effect at all on bacteria, though washing powder generally contains other stuff to deal with that.

 

The enzymes in washing powder are designed to work at temperatures around 30-40 degrees c. but it appears they will work, albeit slower, at much lower temperatures. I'd suggest the ones to use are those that advertise as being effective even at low temperatures.

 

I can't see how a bio washing powder would be affected one way or the other by toilet blue.

 

I'm not sure, but I think the action of formaldehyde can be neutralised by strong alkalis and some washing powders might fall into that category perhaps.

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Killing bacteria will not stop organic material decomposing but it will do something for the smell!

 

Well I'm afraid I disagree with this, and so will the global canning industry! Sterile organic material, while it may undergo some minor chemical changes, will not decompose - for that to happen bacteria and other microorganisms must be present. As for the influence of bacteria on the smell, well that's rather unpredictable, depending on the organic material, the micro-organisms and the environment.

 

No-one seems to have taken on board that blue and now green liquids are designed to kill bacteria, whereas other methods do not. This in almost all cases wouldn't matter, but pathogenic organisms are not uncommon, and may be a source of infection - there is such a thing as splashback!

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No-one seems to have taken on board that blue and now green liquids are designed to kill bacteria, whereas other methods do not. This in almost all cases wouldn't matter, but pathogenic organisms are not uncommon, and may be a source of infection - there is such a thing as splashback!

I don't think I would want formaldehyde up my bum. I once got a splash of loo cleaner and I don't want to repeat that in a hurry. :cheers:

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Well I'm afraid I disagree with this, and so will the global canning industry! Sterile organic material, while it may undergo some minor chemical changes, will not decompose - for that to happen bacteria and other microorganisms must be present. As for the influence of bacteria on the smell, well that's rather unpredictable, depending on the organic material, the micro-organisms and the environment.

 

 

That's a valid point but in "organic material" I'm talking about human/animal waste. I don't think there is an accepted scientific explanation for how this stuff breaks down, but it is accepted that enzymes play a major part in it. So bio washing powder would seem a logical thing to use in a ports potti. The role of microorganisms including bacteria isn't fully understood but bacteria as they multiply produce enzymes, so it is known that bacteria will assist in decomposing waste as a result. I've seen articles which explain how bacteria "eat" the waste and that's how it decomposes which is misleading. Raw sewage has to be treated to kill harmful bacteria like salmonella for example, which is a persistent little s**.

 

Having thought about this a bit, the point about conventional toilet fluids having bacteria killing ingredients is worth considering if you plan to just use washing powder. There has been some controversy about biological powders and people having skin complaints and other issues since using them. As I mentioned, there seems to be no agreement on whether these enzyme cleaners have any effect at all on bacteria so it could well be that though clothes come out whiter than white they may still contain harmful microorganisms.

 

So I'm thinking now you do need to use both an enzyme cleaner and a bacteria killer.

 

Which I think is broadly what they do at the sewage works.

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That's a valid point but in "organic material" I'm talking about human/animal waste. I don't think there is an accepted scientific explanation for how this stuff breaks down, but it is accepted that enzymes play a major part in it. So bio washing powder would seem a logical thing to use in a ports potti. The role of microorganisms including bacteria isn't fully understood but bacteria as they multiply produce enzymes, so it is known that bacteria will assist in decomposing waste as a result. I've seen articles which explain how bacteria "eat" the waste and that's how it decomposes which is misleading. Raw sewage has to be treated to kill harmful bacteria like salmonella for example, which is a persistent little s**.

 

Having thought about this a bit, the point about conventional toilet fluids having bacteria killing ingredients is worth considering if you plan to just use washing powder. There has been some controversy about biological powders and people having skin complaints and other issues since using them. As I mentioned, there seems to be no agreement on whether these enzyme cleaners have any effect at all on bacteria so it could well be that though clothes come out whiter than white they may still contain harmful microorganisms.

 

So I'm thinking now you do need to use both an enzyme cleaner and a bacteria killer.

 

Which I think is broadly what they do at the sewage works.

 

So, if we clean the portapotti thoroughly with something nasty like bleach after every time we empty (top and bottom) and then rinse it out with lots of water, we should be ok with using bio washing liquid instead of blue unless we have a nasty splash back incident after a dodgy curry from the local takeaway?????

 

 

D

 

BTW I added another cap of washing liquid today. Not sure what we've been up to (might be the local beer festival and a thai curry) but the smell level was beginning to increase at bit beyond the previously fragrant level.

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I don't think I would want formaldehyde up my bum. I once got a splash of loo cleaner and I don't want to repeat that in a hurry. :cheers:

 

Well I was thinking about splashback when emptying. I dunno about you, but there is no possibilty of contact with the lower half of my porta-potti while using! (Although I did once open the valve between top & bottom on a hot day when the air in the lower had expanded - I keep the lid shut now. :sick:

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So, if we clean the portapotti thoroughly with something nasty like bleach after every time we empty (top and bottom) and then rinse it out with lots of water, we should be ok with using bio washing liquid instead of blue unless we have a nasty splash back incident after a dodgy curry from the local takeaway?????

 

 

D

 

BTW I added another cap of washing liquid today. Not sure what we've been up to (might be the local beer festival and a thai curry) but the smell level was beginning to increase at bit beyond the previously fragrant level.

I once read that bleach could damage the seals.

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BTW I added another cap of washing liquid today. Not sure what we've been up to (might be the local beer festival and a thai curry) but the smell level was beginning to increase at bit beyond the previously fragrant level.

 

 

In the other thread about this I undertook a couple of try outs with our cassette. I used Bio washing powder, a couple of cup fulls and found the results very poor.

 

The smell was worse then with blue but the waste when emptied did have a nice creamy colour so was wondering if using the liquid versions might make a difference.

 

looks like your experiences may be similar to mine so will probably stick with the Blue in the cassette and Pink in the flush.

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Ok, the counter intuitive method that works (and has scientific validity)'

 

The smell from a toilet is caused by anaerobic decomposition, ie the lid being shut and decomposition happening without oxygen. Biologic counters to an extent this by providing oxygen

 

If you want your toilet not to smell then simply leave the seal cracked a little (1" or so). This allows aerobic digestion which does not cause smells, a large part of which is, and is carried by, methane.

 

I use this method on a cassette and it smells not at all. And I really mean not at all. Not even close up.

 

Btw the post about enzymes is a load of crap (couldn't resist). Microbes cause decomposition, enzymes are produced by the process and catalyse the various reactions. On their own they do nothing. Both smelly and non smelly toilets are subject to the processes of decomposition. The smell of fresh poo is anaerobic digestion in the colon.

Edited by Chris Pink
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2 caps to the base and one cap to the rinse. We'll see how the smell control goes as it gets filled.

 

I wonder if the bio washing liquid is any better for the seals than blue? We tend to find over time that the seal on the base eventually starts to leak at bit resulting in an unpleasent surprise when you go to empty. I've not attempted to replace a seal yet. I guess it will be me doing the replacing as the man only likes mucky jobs involving grease, oil, tile adhesive and grout (not all at once I hasten to add).

 

How easy is it to replace a seal? Also, I vaguely remember someone on here saying something about a quick slick of vegetable oil when changing the cassette to keep everything working smoothly.

 

D

 

edited to put a question mark in the correct place.

 

 

 

I have bought the seals to replace in two of our thetford cassettes and when Joe gets round to it I will let you know how easy it was to do!!!

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Ok, the counter intuitive method that works (and has scientific validity)'

 

The smell from a toilet is caused by anaerobic decomposition, ie the lid being shut and decomposition happening without oxygen. Biologic counters to an extent this by providing oxygen

 

If you want your toilet not to smell then simply leave the seal cracked a little (1" or so). This allows aerobic digestion which does not cause smells, a large part of which is, and is carried by, methane.

 

I use this method on a cassette and it smells not at all. And I really mean not at all. Not even close up.

 

Btw the post about enzymes is a load of crap (couldn't resist). Microbes cause decomposition, enzymes are produced by the process and catalyse the various reactions. On their own they do nothing. Both smelly and non smelly toilets are subject to the processes of decomposition. The smell of fresh poo is anaerobic digestion in the colon.

 

Hmmm, our loo was getting full and despite adding yet another capful of bio washing liquid, as it filled up it smelt more like dirty nappies soaking before a wash .....

 

I will let you know how I get on when I empty the now full cassette as to whether it's hold your breath and try not to gag.

 

The cassette I've just put on has blue in it. But if the bio washing liquid thing is not too bad on emptying I will give it one more try before making up my mind.

 

I've never liked the smell of nappies soaking before washing. Reminds me of sibling rivalry when I was a kid. Fortunately I love my kid sister to bits these days but there's a lot of water and years under the bridge. After all she is 40 now!!!!! Oh bugger, that means I now old :o

 

D

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I've never liked the smell of nappies soaking before washing. Reminds me of sibling rivalry when I was a kid. Fortunately I love my kid sister to bits these days but there's a lot of water and years under the bridge. After all she is 40 now!!!!! Oh bugger, that means I now old :o

 

D

 

 

Ah that explains it. I was wondering how you knew about soaking nappies in these disposable days

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So if oxygen is a good thing to aid decomposition and or reduce smell, would some of that Oxy washing aid stuff be of any use.

 

FYI on the MH I use 2 tea mugs of the cheapest bio powder I can find and the results are perfectly acceptable and the smell is far nicer than blue. Some times the half full cassette will be on the MH for weeks before the next use and emptying.

  • Greenie 1
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So if oxygen is a good thing to aid decomposition and or reduce smell, would some of that Oxy washing aid stuff be of any use.

 

FYI on the MH I use 2 tea mugs of the cheapest bio powder I can find and the results are perfectly acceptable and the smell is far nicer than blue. Some times the half full cassette will be on the MH for weeks before the next use and emptying.

 

Now that's a thought but I guess you would have to be careful not to use too much.

 

We emptied our cassette with the bio washing liquid. Wasn't too bad, didn't notice any particuarly bad smells. The next cassette to empty has blue in it. The one after will be another bio washing stuff. I guess after that we'll make a decision on what we will use in future.

 

Debbi

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Now that's a thought but I guess you would have to be careful not to use too much.

 

We emptied our cassette with the bio washing liquid. Wasn't too bad, didn't notice any particuarly bad smells. The next cassette to empty has blue in it. The one after will be another bio washing stuff. I guess after that we'll make a decision on what we will use in future.

 

Debbi

But did you get a bubbly bum?

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