Pump out toilet and waste tank

[Butterfly8]

Hello

 

I'm looking at ordering a pump out toilet and waste tank for my new build and wondered if anyone using this equipment could give me any help and advice.

 

I've found a Jabsco PAR toilet and tank kit for £1300 - do you think this is reasonable? (boatbilder quote is £1960!)

 

Two of us will live aboard and i'm wondering if a 390l tank will last for say 2 weeks? (wouldn't want to have to empty more than this!)

 

Some seem to have a mascerator and some don't - any views?

 

Finally, a friend of mine installed a toilet that seems to have a very small hole which causes problems. If anyone has a Jabsco can you reassure me?

 

Any advice much appreciated...

 

Ali

[mrsmelly]

Hello

 

I'm looking at ordering a pump out toilet and waste tank for my new build and wondered if anyone using this equipment could give me any help and advice.

 

I've found a Jabsco PAR toilet and tank kit for £1300 - do you think this is reasonable? (boatbilder quote is £1960!)

 

Two of us will live aboard and i'm wondering if a 390l tank will last for say 2 weeks? (wouldn't want to have to empty more than this!)

 

Some seem to have a mascerator and some don't - any views?

 

Finally, a friend of mine installed a toilet that seems to have a very small hole which causes problems. If anyone has a Jabsco can you reassure me?

 

Any advice much appreciated...

 

Ali

 

Yep, buy a thetford c200 cassette for less than 300 quid, use the wasted tank space for storage and spend the saved 1000 quid and future pumpout charges on something sensible like beer for instance

[Butterfly8]

Yep, buy a thetford c200 cassette for less than 300 quid, use the wasted tank space for storage and spend the saved 1000 quid and future pumpout charges on something sensible like beer for instance

 

 

There is that option of course!

[jelunga]

But if you do want a pump out then.....

We have a manual Jabsco which is quite old and pumps through about 2 metres run. The toilet basin is ceramic and nice and firm. The pump has a two way shuttle valve so you can just pump the contents to the tank or pump and flush.

We have about a 45 gal holding tank, about 200 litres. We are 2 high useage people. This lasts about a week in summer.

There is no macerate etc to go wrong. I need to lub the pump with warm water and vegetable oil (5ml) every week and that seems to do it. Does not use any electric power. Probably the next best to a cassette for simplicity.

 

PS. There is a float operated contents gauge. This has never worked and I assume the float is stuck. To find out the level I have to lie down and place a torch against the side of the translucent plastic tank. The level is where the dark bits stop lol.

Edited November 22, 2011 by jelunga

[Guest]

There is that option of course!

 

If you have your heart set on a pump out I would avoid a macerator loo. They over complicate things. If I was having a pump out fitted it would be a straightforward dump through (Often referred to a Mansfiled). Basically the loo sits directly on top of the holding tank.

 

No fancy macerator bit to go wrong or pipes to the remote tank to start leaking like ours did. Whether you can have one will depend on how advanced your build is, though it sounds not very advanced at all in your case.

 

Others will be along shortly with completely opposing views - you will in the end just have to weigh up all the opinions.

 

ed to add - the other advantage of a basic dump through is you can physically see when it needs emptying rather than relying on unreliable level gauges or lights. The mechanisms that operate these often do not cope well (understandably) within the environment they are required to operate in.

Edited November 22, 2011 by MJG

[Ssscrudddy]

I used to run a B&B, & 2 of the toilets had macerators. I hate Hate HAte HATe HATE macerators. They block up way too easily. Even too much toilet paper will jam them up. & cleaning 1 of them out after it has jammed is the most disgusting task ever, especially when its someone elses poo.

 

Now obviously if its your toilet, you wont be putting things down it that make them jam up, no ladies products, no pun intended. Even good quality toilet paper as oppose to cheapo crap, would jam them up. Repeatedly replacing the motors in them can get a bit pricey.

 

I dont have a boat, & I'm pretty sure I would want a pumpout when I do get 1. I would also want a cassette/porta potti as a back up as well.

What I DO know tho, is that I will never have a macerator. Way too much trouble.

[AlanH]

If you have your heart set on a pump out I would avoid a macerator loo. They over complicate things. If I was having a pump out fitted it would be a straightforward dump through (Often referred to a Mansfiled). Basically the loo sits directly on top of the holding tank.

 

No fancy macerator bit to go wrong or pipes to the remote tank to start leaking like ours did. Whether you can have one will depend on how advanced your build is, though it sounds not very advanced at all in your case.

 

Others will be along shortly with completely opposing views - you will in the end just have to weigh up all the opinions.

I'd go along with that. Had no trouble at all in five years with our dump through.

[Keeping Up]

That size of tank should easily last you for more than 2 weeks. Ours is an old-fashioned dump-through, and I reckon to allow for 1 gallon (call it 5 litres) per person per day. That means our 35 gallon (170 litre) tank will last the two of us for about two and a half weeks. Yours should therefore last for much longer unless your chosen toilet puts a lot of fresh water into the tank.

 

(Note I say ours is 35 gallons. It's actually nearer 40 gallons but you can rarely empty the very last of it, and it's not a good idea to fill it to 100%, so its usable capacity is about 35. Unlike batteries, loo tanks do not take kindly to being trickle-charged once they have become nearly full.

[gary955]

But if you do want a pump out then.....

We have a manual Jabsco which is quite old and pumps through about 2 metres run. The toilet basin is ceramic and nice and firm. The pump has a two way shuttle valve so you can just pump the contents to the tank or pump and flush.

We have about a 45 gal holding tank, about 200 litres. We are 2 high useage people. This lasts about a week in summer.

There is no macerate etc to go wrong. I need to lub the pump with warm water and vegetable oil (5ml) every week and that seems to do it. Does not use any electric power. Probably the next best to a cassette for simplicity.

AH HA!!! At last

I've waited ages to find someone with this set up. I have a cassette portaloo but have also found a redundent waste tank under the bed, plumbed into a waste point on the gunnel. I also have (in my garage) a toilet similar to yours, and this winters project is to civilise my "waste management" Oh you can wail all you want, all you portaloo evangelists, but carrying your poo about in a plastic suitcase is NOT civilised.

Anyway my problem is this. When enquiring from the manufacturer if it was OK to plumb my pressurised domestic water straight into the flush water feed, they told me that this should never be done due to the risk of contamination from the double acting pump and that the flush water should come from a skin fitting. (these were originally designed as sea toilets I think) Assuming that you're not flushing with canal water, will the seals cope with the pressurised feed? Logic tells me that in the event of a seal on the double acting pump letting by, that the water will flow FROM the pressurised side and so make any contamination of the freshwater tank extreemly unlikely. As an extra precaution I could always put a stop valve in it. How have you plumbed yours in?

[Guest]

AH HA!!! At last

I've waited ages to find someone with this set up. I have a cassette portaloo but have also found a redundent waste tank under the bed, plumbed into a waste point on the gunnel. I also have (in my garage) a toilet similar to yours, and this winters project is to civilise my "waste management" Oh you can wail all you want, all you portaloo evangelists, but carrying your poo about in a plastic suitcase is NOT civilised.

Anyway my problem is this. When enquiring from the manufacturer if it was OK to plumb my pressurised domestic water straight into the flush water feed, they told me that this should never be done due to the risk of contamination from the double acting pump and that the flush water should come from a skin fitting. (these were originally designed as sea toilets I think) Assuming that you're not flushing with canal water, will the seals cope with the pressurised feed? Logic tells me that in the event of a seal on the double acting pump letting by, that the water will flow FROM the pressurised side and so make any contamination of the freshwater tank extreemly unlikely. As an extra precaution I could always put a stop valve in it. How have you plumbed yours in?

 

Our Thetford cassette C250 draws it's water from the main domestic water system, they are all designed to fit this way. The push switch activates a valve which opens and the drop in pressure activates the domestic water pump just the same as if you had opened a tap.

 

Unless I am missing something what is the difference with your system? - unless you mean the pump is integral to the unit and does not utilise the domestic pump...

[gary955]

Our Thetford cassette C250 draws it's water from the main domestic water system, they are all designed to fit this way. The push switch activates a valve which opens and the drop in pressure activates the domestic water pump just the same as if you had opened a tap.

 

Unless I am missing something what is the difference with your system? - unless you mean the pump is integral to the unit and does not utilise the domestic pump...

No not the same at all. When I said a toilet similar to yours, I didnt mean similar to YOURS Martin, I meant similar to the poster who's post I was replying too!

[Guest]

No not the same at all. When I said a toilet similar to yours, I didnt mean similar to YOURS Martin, I meant similar to the poster who's post I was replying too!

 

Yes Gary - I do realise that, in a quest to be helpful I was pointing out that my toilet draws it's water from the main domestic supply which is exactly what you had been told you should not do.

 

I then asked which pump your toilet uses which could be the defining reason why you have been told you can't, because as I see it that could be the only difference as to yours and mine being not suited and suited to where they draw their water from.

[sebrof]

Yes Gary - I do realise that, in a quest to be helpful I was pointing out that my toilet draws it's water from the main domestic supply which is exactly what you had been told you should not do.

 

I then asked which pump your toilet uses which could be the defining reason why you have been told you can't, because as I see it that could be the only difference as to yours and mine being not suited and suited to where they draw their water from.

 

Never buy a macerator. It's not a matter of IF it will break down, but WHEN. And when will be when you have a party of guests aboard, and no alternative to offer but the nearest hedge.

 

Don't pay any heed to those who tell you that their's has been reliable. It will break down next week, guaranteed.

 

I have a proper sailors' loo, a "Lavac", which is very simple and reliable. Works on a vacuum principle, and I installed two pumps so that if one fails, the other will still go. One is a stout Henderson manual pump, and the other an electric (for the ladies).

 

Plumbed properly, it can double as a bilge pump. And it didn't cost anything like a grand.

 

ETA: Take your flushing water from the canal. It's mad to waste good clean water.

Edited November 22, 2011 by sebrof

[gary955]

Yes Gary - I do realise that, in a quest to be helpful I was pointing out that my toilet draws it's water from the main domestic supply which is exactly what you had been told you should not do.

 

I then asked which pump your toilet uses which could be the defining reason why you have been told you can't, because as I see it that could be the only difference as to yours and mine being not suited and suited to where they draw their water from.

Thankyou for your helpfulness Martin, I didnt mean to offend you but a quick google of Jabsco manual toilet before you posted would have told you that we are talking about very different things.

My toilet has a manual pump originally designed to pull flushwater from outside through a skin fitting. The pump is a double acting plunger with flushwater one side and waste water the other. The two use the same cylinder and are seperated by the pump seal. Hence a potential risk of cross contamination.

[Guest]

And when will be when you have a party of guests aboard, and no alternative to offer but the nearest hedge.

 

Indeed - Normally because guests don't appreciate how strictly you have to adhere to rule about not putting anything down it other than loo paper and human waste.

 

"I'm sure this little face wipe won't harm....." - yes it will.....

[gary955]

[quote name='sebrof' timestamp='1321966501' post='783941'

 

ETA: Take your flushing water from the canal. It's mad to waste good clean water.

I thought about that, but besides the workup of fitting a below waterline skin fitting, I found that sometimes even clean seawater can smell a bit when left for a while and the canal water often looks dirtier than my waste!!

[Proper Job]

A dump through is the only civilised toilet. If you manage to block it, you need to see a doctor.

 

...... and as for the porta potty brigade who spout on about how can you live with a tank full of poo etc.. ask them how many spare cassettes they have. Where do they put them when they're full? the cockpit or the roof seems to be favourite.

[Guest]

A dump through is the only civilised toilet. If you manage to block it, you need to see a doctor.

 

...... and as for the porta potty brigade who spout on about how can you live with a tank full of poo etc.. ask them how many spare cassettes they have. Where do they put them when they're full? the cockpit or the roof seems to be favourite.

 

We have one spare - it goes under the bed when empty and when full there is a little used corner of the bathroom where it sits until it gets emptied - I think carrying a cassette on your roof looks crass and they get in the way when in the cockpit, but I can live with a tank of poo the same as I could live with a dump through PO.

 

 

 

..

Edited November 22, 2011 by MJG

[gary955]

A dump through is the only civilised toilet. If you manage to block it, you need to see a doctor.

 

...... and as for the porta potty brigade who spout on about how can you live with a tank full of poo etc.. ask them how many spare cassettes they have. Where do they put them when they're full? the cockpit or the roof seems to be favourite.

Agree'd that it would be difficult to block a dump through. But when it's open it provides a rather large vent into a rather small room! Less than civilised I think, let alone the asthetic joy of looking down the hole....Yes you do!

[Guest]

Agree'd that it would be difficult to block a dump through. But when it's open it provides a rather large vent into a rather small room! Less than civilised I think, let alone the asthetic joy of looking down the hole....Yes you do!

 

However it does mean you can get a stick in there and give it a good old stirring to make sure you get the most benefit at PO time.....

[ditchcrawler]

If you have your heart set on a pump out I would avoid a macerator loo. They over complicate things. If I was having a pump out fitted it would be a straightforward dump through (Often referred to a Mansfiled). Basically the loo sits directly on top of the holding tank.

 

No fancy macerator bit to go wrong or pipes to the remote tank to start leaking like ours did. Whether you can have one will depend on how advanced your build is, though it sounds not very advanced at all in your case.

 

Others will be along shortly with completely opposing views - you will in the end just have to weigh up all the opinions.

 

ed to add - the other advantage of a basic dump through is you can physically see when it needs emptying rather than relying on unreliable level gauges or lights. The mechanisms that operate these often do not cope well (understandably) within the environment they are required to operate in.

I agree with you, Pipes are the main cause of smells as well as leaks. We have a drop through and the only pipes involved is a short length from the top of the tank to the pump out fitting and another to the vent, both self drain back to the tank so nothing laying in them to smell.

 

Indeed - Normally because guests don't appreciate how strictly you have to adhere to rule about not putting anything down it other than loo paper and human waste.

 

"I'm sure this little face wipe won't harm....." - yes it will.....

Or even a paper hanky after blowing your nose

[Masquerade]

Got a 24v sanimarin macerator with a 45 gallon tank. Lasts about 3 weeks on a diet of real ale and curry. Never had a problem but i do take care of it. Use bioclean products and don't get any nasty niffs. If starting from scratch or advising i would probably go for a dump through with a big tank. However the next boat will likely have another macerator. Macerators can be reliable if cared for properly and more importantly installed correctly along with rigid pipe runs where possible. Would always go with the 24v option. Find out how big the Black Prince tanks are, some seem to go up to 6 months between pumpouts

 

Not interested in potties. Always think they are better suited to a tent in a field.

[sharpness]

ask them how many spare cassettes they have. Where do they put them when they're full? the cockpit or the roof seems to be favourite.

 

We have 1 spare, empty it lives in a cupboard, full it sits in the shower tray, out of sight etc.

 

You're never alone with a full cassette!!

 

Steve

[jelunga]

AH HA!!! At last

I've waited ages to find someone with this set up. I have a cassette portaloo but have also found a redundent waste tank under the bed, plumbed into a waste point on the gunnel. I also have (in my garage) a toilet similar to yours, and this winters project is to civilise my "waste management" Oh you can wail all you want, all you portaloo evangelists, but carrying your poo about in a plastic suitcase is NOT civilised.

Anyway my problem is this. When enquiring from the manufacturer if it was OK to plumb my pressurised domestic water straight into the flush water feed, they told me that this should never be done due to the risk of contamination from the double acting pump and that the flush water should come from a skin fitting. (these were originally designed as sea toilets I think) Assuming that you're not flushing with canal water, will the seals cope with the pressurised feed? Logic tells me that in the event of a seal on the double acting pump letting by, that the water will flow FROM the pressurised side and so make any contamination of the freshwater tank extreemly unlikely. As an extra precaution I could always put a stop valve in it. How have you plumbed yours in?

An interesting question. The toilet on our boat is amidships about 20 feet from the cojd water tank. The toilet pump is fed by fresh water from the water tank using a separate spur pipe before the fresh water punk and us therefore unpressurised. This was installed at build tine in 1992 and as far as I knowdid Not kill the previous owners and we have not had any problems in the 3 yrs we have owned here and lived on 24/7 since Aoril.

Iam also concerned about cross contamination. We do have a seagull water purifier faucet fitted for drinking water but all other water comes direct from The fresh water tank.

[gary955]

Got a 24v sanimarin macerator with a 45 gallon tank. Lasts about 3 weeks on a diet of real ale and curry. Never had a problem but i do take care of it. Use bioclean products and don't get any nasty niffs. If starting from scratch or advising i would probably go for a dump through with a big tank. However the next boat will likely have another macerator. Macerators can be reliable if cared for properly and more importantly installed correctly along with rigid pipe runs where possible. Would always go with the 24v option. Find out how big the Black Prince tanks are, some seem to go up to 6 months between pumpouts

 

Not interested in potties. Always think they are better suited to a tent in a field.

Your diet should ensure that the macerator motor is not unduely troubled!