Speedwheel Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 These are Hawker Armasafe. Out of interest - Can these be charged by a normal 3/4 stage charger, similar to what most people have already on their boat, or do they need something specific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Out of interest - Can these be charged by a normal 3/4 stage charger, similar to what most people have already on their boat, or do they need something specific? They are fine with a normal charger. The bigger the better. I don't know if you watched the film with a certain "expert" saying AGMs are no good because you can't charge them up fast. It's bollocks. The ones I've got here will charge up faster than anything else I have ever tried. He states a maximum of 10% of the battery capacity. I've been charging these at twice the battery capacity. But yes, a normal 3 stage charger is fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwheel Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) They are fine with a normal charger. The bigger the better. I don't know if you watched the film with a certain "expert" saying AGMs are no good because you can't charge them up fast. It's bollocks. The ones I've got here will charge up faster than anything else I have ever tried. He states a maximum of 10% of the battery capacity. I've been charging these at twice the battery capacity. ETA: I like it. Edited September 5, 2011 by nb Innisfree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob18 Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) These are a "standard" wet cell lead acid battery, albeit one of quite substantial proportions. There is a guidance note on the US Battery website - you should match the charging system so it will charge the battery in about 8 hours. By inference with the next note, that is from 80% discharge. One thing, make sure you have an even number as the one quoted is a 6 volt battery, not that anyone here would be foolish enough to try and charge a single one with a twelve volt charger... Just read a bit more about these US batteries - they look a sort of hybrid between an AGM and a flooded cell battery. Very interesting Edited September 5, 2011 by Bob18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 One thing, make sure you have an even number as the one quoted is a 6 volt battery, not that anyone here would be foolish enough to try and charge a single one with a twelve volt charger... Such misplaced faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Such misplaced faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 surely if you charge a six volt battery from a twelve volt charger it will charge in half the time. Must go, my taxi is waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 surely if you charge a six volt battery from a twelve volt charger it will charge in half the time. Obviously, how else could an alternator controller work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Obviously, how else could an alternator controller work? Oooh, you have got one on you today... Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evo Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I go back to see how my mate is getting on with his SmartG today. He's had it a week. I think he's impressed with it, he's told me a few things over the week that are encouraging. Its finally convinced him that his 6KVa genny and his Victron inverter are great at charging. So his regime is now Genny in the morning, he turns it on and goes to work, his missus turns it off later when she goes to work. Engine for an 1hr at night (hot water). He reckoned earlier in the week that he was getting 98-99-100% everytime he charged, and not dropping below 75-80% at anytime. I'm just pleased he's bothering to look...!! (His genny is in a soundproof box 20yds away on land). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 If he's got an auto start box for his genny you can set SG to deal with starting the genny when it's needed and, in conjunction with a timer, to only do it at sensible times of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evo Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Steady on not so fast..!!! Its only the fact that he has to start it that he remembers to buy fuel for it. Would like to put something on the genny to stop it automatically when batteries are charged though. Thats a good idea....hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proper Job Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I go back to see how my mate is getting on with his SmartG today. He's had it a week. I think he's impressed with it, he's told me a few things over the week that are encouraging. Its finally convinced him that his 6KVa genny and his Victron inverter are great at charging. So his regime is now Genny in the morning, he turns it on and goes to work, his missus turns it off later when she goes to work. Engine for an 1hr at night (hot water). He reckoned earlier in the week that he was getting 98-99-100% everytime he charged, and not dropping below 75-80% at anytime. I'm just pleased he's bothering to look...!! (His genny is in a soundproof box 20yds away on land). Without being to pedantic, I'd say he's not using the SG correctly. He could probably miss out every other charging cycle (saving fuel) and only charge when the SG told him the SOC was getting down to 50 - 60%. I run my batteries down to 50/60%, then charge up to 80/85%. Every week or so I give them a charge up to 95/100% (usually go for a cruise ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 If he's got an auto start box for his genny you can set SG to deal with starting the genny when it's needed and, in conjunction with a timer, to only do it at sensible times of the day. Whilst your here..... I have mine set to activate at X% SOC & go off at Y% SOC but want to change it to go off at Z Hours after Y% SOC. I have set it using the PA S. If I use PA T it will run for a fixed time after meeting the activation X% SOC. How do I combine both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evo Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I dont believe he can use the gauge incorrectly. I would rather he does what he's doing than take them down as low as 50% unnecessarily, that cant be right can it..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I dont believe he can use the gauge incorrectly. I would rather he does what he's doing than take them down as low as 50% unnecessarily, that cant be right can it..?? Its a balance between charging costs & battery life/replacement costs. Charge to often & you use a lot of fuel, charge not enough & the bats fail to soon. You want to be some where in the middle of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evo Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) He's running them at a higher percentage all the time though isn't he, thats not a bad thing surely. His genny is on for approx 20mins in the morning practically replacing his nights consumption, his solar panel runs his fridge all day and he will always need to run his engine for hot water. I'd rather he stay in the habit of what he's doing than drop back into his old ways. I'd say he is using a hell of alot less fuel than he was simply because he's not running his engine for hours charging unnecessarily. He now knows when to stop. They are not heavy consumers..considering. Its probably because of that that they became lax in charging. I'll see later but so far from what I've gathered from text messages he is well chuffed and finds his current routine no hardship in any sense. Edited September 9, 2011 by Evo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 How do I combine both? You can't. It can either alarm between two set SOCs or it can alarm for a fixed time period after triggering. He's running them at a higher percentage all the time though isn't he, thats not a bad thing surely What Justme is saying is this:- If you run the genny to recharge from (say) 50% to 60% it will use less fuel than to recharge from (say) 80% to 90%. The higher the charge status, the lower the battery charge efficiency and the lower the actual charge current so the genny is needlessy running to put a smaller amount of energy back per unit time. The deeper you discharge your batteries, the shorter life they live. It therefore costs more money if you keep flattening your batteries. The conslusion from this is that you get best battery economy by discharging them very little. This is true. On the other hand, your charging system (particularly if it's a generator/engine) gets you the best value when you discharge your batteries very deeply because that way the generator is working hard for a longer period. The two requirement are clearly in total conflict with each other. But by compromising at discharges to around 50% you find the right balance between the two. It's called the 50% rule. There is someone on here who thinks it's wrong. But that seems odd as everyone else thinks it's right. I've tested the crap out of the 50% rule and it is indeed valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by'eck Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) Another take on this is to have a high capacity charger in relation to battery bank size, say 100 amp charger or alternator serving a 400Ah battery bank. The engine/alternator or generator/charger is then working for the minimum amount of time. Downside is battery life, but a similar balance of costs can be sought. Wonder what Gibbo's ideal max charge current to battery bank amphour ratio is, as a balance between charging time & battery life. Edited September 9, 2011 by richardhula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Another take on this is to have a high capacity charger in relation to battery bank size, say 100 amp charger or alternator serving a 400Ah battery bank. The engine/alternator or generator/charger is then working for the minimum amount of time. Downside is battery life, but a similar balance of costs can be sought. Richard,tour face looks very familiar. Did you teach at a school in Ilford by any chance? bizzard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by'eck Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Richard,tour face looks very familiar. Did you teach at a school in Ilford by any chance? bizzard. Sorry no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileypete Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) I go back to see how my mate is getting on with his SmartG today. He's had it a week. I think he's impressed with it, he's told me a few things over the week that are encouraging. Its finally convinced him that his 6KVa genny and his Victron inverter are great at charging. So his regime is now Genny in the morning, he turns it on and goes to work, his missus turns it off later when she goes to work. Engine for an 1hr at night (hot water). He reckoned earlier in the week that he was getting 98-99-100% everytime he charged, and not dropping below 75-80% at anytime. I'm just pleased he's bothering to look...!! But... bear in mind the current Smartgauge isn't as accurate when the batts are being charged, I think the manual mentions this. Over the long term there can be problems if the batt are never fully charged enough. cheers, Pete. Edited September 9, 2011 by smileypete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Sorry no Okay. I was almost sure it was you who was sent to my garage once MOT perhaps by friends of mine from Ilford County high. in the 1990' s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Evo A slight change of routine and the fitting of an immersion heater, would stop the need for an engine run in the evening. Do not ask me how but when ever my generator runs (7Kw on board) the immersion is on, it is linked somehow so that it cannot run off the inverter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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