Numax m110 batteries

[nb Innisfree]

I'm not certain of this but I think they are for MOD purchase only. I don't think you can buy the Armasafe as a normal person. However, they do a "commercial" version of it. It's orange and is identical apart from some internal "toughness measures" so they don't break when a bomb goes off under the vehicle. This is what I was told at the factory.

 

You should be ok then

[Gibbo]

You should be ok then

 

 

I do, in fact, have three of them.

[Bob Blues]

been speaking to Enersys looking for the Hawker Armasafe. As already stated they are Military only unless I buy several 100 or them. However I was informed The Odyssey PC2250 is the civil version of the Armasafe .

 

Bob B

[Gibbo]

been speaking to Enersys looking for the Hawker Armasafe. As already stated they are Military only unless I buy several 100 or them. However I was informed The Odyssey PC2250 is the civil version of the Armasafe .

 

Yes that's the one. Electrically, and performance wise, they are identical. The Armasafe just has a few extra physical "toughness" measures.

[Keeping Up]

What? This is the 21st century!

 

Yes I know, but I already have the Rediline fitted, and anyway it is used only once or twice a month for a few minutes at times when the engine is running. To fit something more modern with a similar sinusoidal rating (1800w continuous, 2500w peak) would be expensive, and would probably not be happy to sit in the engine bay under the cruiser stern deck. So I'll stick with it while it is still working.

[WotEver]

Oooh... a pair of these would be luvverly.

 

[blodger]

They have put one too many 5s in the price for me

 

They would make good mud weights at 60 kg when they have expired; hopefully it would be a long wait.

[Top cat]

EXPENSIVE or what - you boat in part exchange

 

TC

[Chalky]

Oooh... a pair of these would be luvverly.

 

 

I wonder how it compares to these?

 

http://www.varta-automotive.com/index.php?id=374&L=0

[Bob18]

Different animals.

The Varta is a targeted at the automotive engine start market, and from the description of its duty cycle I'd guess the local delivery van in particular (lots of start/stop cycles) which is a bit different to that of a narrowboat, where it tends to be start, run for a few hours, stop.

 

The Odyssey is very much more a deep discharge battery, with good engine start capabilities.

 

Odyssey are good batteries, but very expensive, and are quite light for their rating - 60kg for 200Ahr beast is at the low end of weight for 200Ahr batteries - one battery manufacturer I've worked with over the years quotes a 150Ahr, similar duty battery as weighing about 55kg. In general more weight = more lead = longer life in a given duty.

 

As for practicality, the "edge-on" connectors are not very easy when you are paralleling up batteries, much easier with the more traditional top connector, of course being a sealed AGM you can tip the battery on its side

[Evo]

I realise you guys have moved on, but if I could just go back a bit...?

 

What do I tell a smartguage what batteries I have if i have a battery that is labelled Numax marine M110. There doesn't seem to be an option for a non deep cycle lead acid bullshit labelled battery, or even for a std lead acid leisure battery. Do I leave it at option 1.

 

I have totally re-done all his battery cables and fitted the shunt, ammeter and Smartg this afternoon. All works a treat but for one thing - which I'm half pleased about because I knew there must be a problem somewhere. The ammeter shows a constant -3amp drain with everything switched off. The most alarming thing we found apart from that was that the biggest power guzzler on the boat was the telly. Further investigation revealed that it is a largish Plasma jobby and consumes 12amps via the inverter. Fridge 3.5amps, led lights 1.5amps, fan oven 1.0amps, Toilet 11amps..!!!, pumps sod all.

 

Just got to get to the bottom of his -3amp drain 24/7 now - and talk him into getting some decent batteries next time.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Evo

[Gibbo]

Odyssey are good batteries, but very expensive, and are quite light for their rating - 60kg for 200Ahr beast is at the low end of weight for 200Ahr batteries - one battery manufacturer I've worked with over the years quotes a 150Ahr, similar duty battery as weighing about 55kg. In general more weight = more lead = longer life in a given duty.

 

They are indeed light. I queried this with the manufacturer. When I saw how they are made (they use a somewhat unique internal format) I realsied why. "More lead = longer life" is true for most batteries, but not these due to their different internal structure.

 

As for practicality, the "edge-on" connectors are not very easy when you are paralleling up batteries, much easier with the more traditional top connector, of course being a sealed AGM you can tip the battery on its side

 

You're right, not practical at all for most installations.

 

But that's just one format. They do more or less the same batteries with all sorts of different terminal arrangements on them. I think that particular one is made for a specific purpose, a floor sweeper or something IIRC.

 

What do I tell a smartguage what batteries I have if i have a battery that is labelled Numax marine M110. There doesn't seem to be an option for a non deep cycle lead acid bullshit labelled battery, or even for a std lead acid leisure battery. Do I leave it at option 1.

 

 

Yes, type 1. Although deep cycling will wreck it in no time, for the purposes of the monitor they react exactly the same as a deep cycle.

 

I have totally re-done all his battery cables and fitted the shunt, ammeter and Smartg this afternoon. All works a treat but for one thing - which I'm half pleased about because I knew there must be a problem somewhere. The ammeter shows a constant -3amp drain with everything switched off. The most alarming thing we found apart from that was that the biggest power guzzler on the boat was the telly. Further investigation revealed that it is a largish Plasma jobby and consumes 12amps via the inverter. Fridge 3.5amps, led lights 1.5amps, fan oven 1.0amps, Toilet 11amps..!!!, pumps sod all.

 

Time to start isolating circuits until you track it down. But before you do that, isolate the whole lot just to make sure it isn't a rogue reading from the ammeter.

[Canalwatcher]

 

Yes, type 1. Although deep cycling will wreck it in no time, for the purposes of the monitor they react exactly the same as a deep cycle.

 

 

Oops! I have been uing a Smartgauge on our 4 Numax domestic batteries for the past 3 years but had set it to Type 4 [in the Smartgauge set up described as "Hybrid calcium/antimony (usually marked as dual purpose or leisure) lead acid")]

 

The batts are 4 years old and since using the smartgauge we have not let them drop below the indicated 50% but perhaps with type 4 entered this may be higher or lower than 50%?

 

I guess I need to reset to type 1?

 

Mick

Edited September 3, 2011 by zodiak

[ditchcrawler]

Bigger bank balance and bigger space to put them in too. OTOH applying the 50% rule seems to suggest that 4 batteries is optimum for us.

 

We actually have 2 inverters, a small one rated at just 350 watts which is always on and is well within the capacity of a bank of 4 batteries, plus a big old-fashioned Rediline rotary converter which takes negligible standby current (and is the one I haven't used since fitting these batteries)

We use to have a Rediline but at that time didn't have any decent monitoring, but the hover speeded up with engine revs. I will be interested to know its efficency if you do use it again.I would guess at 70% max but would like to know

[Keeping Up]

We use to have a Rediline but at that time didn't have any decent monitoring, but the hover speeded up with engine revs. I will be interested to know its efficency if you do use it again.I would guess at 70% max but would like to know

 

Their published figures, which I think are reasonably accurate, show it as having a no-load current when operating, of about 25 to 30 amps (of course it would have shut down on no load, and in that state it takes only a couple of milliamps - but it took me a change of fuse in the multimeter to discover that it takes 0.4 amp for a few seconds when power is first applied with no load connected). After that the conversion efficiency is just a little under 70%.

 

So it is by today's standards horribly inefficient, and the voltage regulation is abysmal; At a constant load of say 1000w, the voltage varies from 235v (50Hz) at 11.6v input to 260v (55Hz) at 12.6v input. Alternatively at a constant input voltage of 11.6v it goes from 225 volts on a 1200w load up to 260v on a 300w load.

 

All the same, it suffices for our use whenever we (rarely) need some high-power 240v for the microwave, hair dryer, spin dryer, or hoover

[Bob18]

Slight off-topic

How well did your Redline cope with step changes in load?

(I know some were really very bad, while others were almost acceptable)

 

Remember battery monitors, like the SmartGauge don't do anything to control the battery, they only tell you what state its in, and then only when you look at them...

They are not a substitute for proper battery management, but a tool to assist in it.

[Keeping Up]

Slight off-topic

How well did your Redline cope with step changes in load?

(I know some were really very bad, while others were almost acceptable)

 

Remember battery monitors, like the SmartGauge don't do anything to control the battery, they only tell you what state its in, and then only when you look at them...

They are not a substitute for proper battery management, but a tool to assist in it.

 

On that off-topic, it copes surprisingly well. Our microwave does step-changes, as it switches on and off when you set it to any of the lower settings. Everything seems to work fine.

[Bob18]

You've got a good'en :-)

I recall one that would almost go into self destruct mode if the load suddenly dropped, and another that would all but stall if the load vanished and came back during the spool down period.

Ah the joys of rotary converters - when they work they work, when they don't.....

[Gibbo]

Oops! I have been uing a Smartgauge on our 4 Numax domestic batteries for the past 3 years but had set it to Type 4 [in the Smartgauge set up described as "Hybrid – calcium/antimony (usually marked as dual purpose or “leisure”) lead acid")]

 

The batts are 4 years old and since using the smartgauge we have not let them drop below the indicated 50% but perhaps with type 4 entered this may be higher or lower than 50%?

 

I guess I need to reset to type 1?

 

No you can leave it as it is. The models are so close that it will adjust itself to work with either quite happily.

 

All the same, it suffices for our use whenever we (rarely) need some high-power 240v for the microwave, hair dryer, spin dryer, or hoover

 

There is also a connection between the 12/24 volts and the 230 volts. Shocking isn't it

[Evo]

Dam, it is the ammeter reading incorrectly. Removing all cables of the shunt it still displayed -003. Not alot i can do about that I guess. Annoying because 3amps is the kind of current we wanted to monitor. I dont want it say -3 when its not -3. It has to say 000 when everything is swtched off.

 

 

SmartGauge is perfect and all he is really bothered about anyway. He was determined to get a 100% reading out of it and did - by leaving his engine running for 3 or 4 hours. Popped in to see him last night and he's telling me the whole boring saga of the afternoons battery useage and what the result was on the SmartG. Great, exactly what the plan was and what i wanted him to be doing - initally anyway. After a nights Telly, lights, fridge etc....Down to 82%. That will do for me. Is it right...I'll have to trust Gibbo on that. I hope that 'Status' button is robust..he cant leave it alone at the moment..haha

[Canalwatcher]

No you can leave it as it is. The models are so close that it will adjust itself to work with either quite happily.

 

Thanks for the confirmation - I'll keep it as Type 4 - one less thing on the to do list!

 

Mick

[smileypete]

Dam, it is the ammeter reading incorrectly. Removing all cables of the shunt it still displayed -003. Not alot i can do about that I guess. Annoying because 3amps is the kind of current we wanted to monitor. I dont want it say -3 when its not -3. It has to say 000 when everything is swtched off.

What ammeter has he got, any chance of a link?

 

There are inexpensive analogue shunt ammeters around (clicky).

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Evo]

This one

I ordered another one of these and a seperate display, so I'll have a try with one of the others. I dont expect it to be deadly accurate at low amps, but it does say 0.2% which is +- 1amp

Edited September 5, 2011 by Evo

[Gibbo]

There appears to be a twiddler on the PCB. Most likely zero offset.

[David Schweizer]

I have always been happy with the performance of my ....U.S. Battery's..... or .........Trojan T105

I am on my second set after 6 years.

Make sure you buy genuine battery's there are many 'sticky label' fakes out there

 

Alex

I missed this thread earlier on, but can add my complete satisfaction with the pair of US batteries in our boat which were installed over six years ago :- http://www.tayna.co.uk/US-125-Deep-Cycle-Monobloc-Battery-P4121.html

 

 

At £143 each (delivered), a bit more these days than the £85 each that I payed for them but I believe that even Gibbo has confirmed that they are proper deep cycle batteries and not starter batteries with handles!

Edited September 5, 2011 by David Schweizer